easylender
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Post by easylender on Feb 6, 2020 0:06:27 GMT
Look you lot, don't you think you're overreacting? We knew there was going to be a haircut (pooling event or whatever) when the provision fund ran down. It was clearly there in the T&Cs. r00lish67 monitored the stats and warned us. We were given an amazingly generous chance to get out free but chose to stay. The haircut is fairly equitable because it penalises most the older loans that have benefited from the PF most. What did you think was going to happen? Can you honestly think of a better way that the haircut could have been implemented - other than doing it sooner. All this whipping up of emotions only leads to people making poor judgements.
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Post by Ace on Feb 6, 2020 1:36:46 GMT
Look you lot, don't you think you're overreacting? We knew there was going to be a haircut (pooling event or whatever) when the provision fund ran down. It was clearly there in the T&Cs. r00lish67 monitored the stats and warned us. We were given an amazingly generous chance to get out free but chose to stay. The haircut is fairly equitable because it penalises most the older loans that have benefited from the PF most. What did you think was going to happen? Can you honestly think of a better way that the haircut could have been implemented - other than doing it sooner. All this whipping up of emotions only leads to people making poor judgements. Err.. No, frankly I don't. I think the main problem from the lender's point of view has been to have under-reacted when the escape hatch was opened. The main problem from the platform's point of view is that those with their hands on the tiller should have looked at their PF status a year ago and concluded that they needed to cut rates rather than raise them. When the writing was writ large by certain erudite posters on this forum, the helmsman asked us not to panic as all was well and they were steering the ship into calmer waters ahead. Just wait and see... Instead, having steered directly towards the rocks, they allowed many to cram into the lifeboats thus depleting the number of hands on board that might otherwise have been sufficient to turn the ship around. Those loyal hands are now idling on a desert island awaiting rescue, while the escapees breath a massive sigh of relief. Ok, NOW I've overreacted! In all seriousness, it's clear that they should and could have cut rates much earlier. Given that they didn't I feel they should have closed all hatches until they had either steadied the ship or admitted defeat and gone into rundown. Thus allowing us all to escape with the same percentage. Isn't that what was supposed to happen under a depleted PF situation. I can't see how this recent cut will be sufficient to repair the PF now, though that's partly because they are deliberately making it more difficult to see. One can only surmise why. I fully expect further cuts in H2 if they are still afloat. Now that they've allowed a number ofescapeess to scrape the cream off, it will be all the harder to fix. I should disclose that all of my friends and relatives have fully escaped and I've extracted 90% of my originally invested capital, so only 10% plus two years interest still invested for me. I really can't fathom why I didn't take the lot out when I had the chance. It simply has to go down as a personal cock-up. Having said that, if they were to shut the doors now, I'd be happy to chuck my £9k back in as an act of solidarity with my fellow shipmates. We really should be all in this together. Good luck all
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macq
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Post by macq on Feb 6, 2020 8:30:58 GMT
Are people overreacting? possibly but they are probably the people who have been caught out by other platforms and thought this was a simple Black box product as mentioned on its home page and had been assured that their was no problem with the rates & provision fund.Maybe the renaming to growth was an early clue who knows? but for many it seems to be a trust issue and it might be true that LW explained all that was going to happen to make the provision fund better but for some reason many people did not suss some of the deeper tweaks (so might be us might be them?) As i mentioned at the end of the day if you are joining today is there anywhere on the homepage or in the links to ISA etc that spell out things like H1 & H2 and cohorts and provision find makeup events? No but there are rates mentioned which i would expect the average investor to expect from day 1 barring defaults so the other may come as a surprise in the future
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macq
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Post by macq on Feb 6, 2020 8:59:29 GMT
Look you lot, don't you think you're overreacting? We knew there was going to be a haircut (pooling event or whatever) when the provision fund ran down. It was clearly there in the T&Cs. r00lish67 monitored the stats and warned us. We were given an amazingly generous chance to get out free but chose to stay. The haircut is fairly equitable because it penalises most the older loans that have benefited from the PF most. What did you think was going to happen? Can you honestly think of a better way that the haircut could have been implemented - other than doing it sooner. All this whipping up of emotions only leads to people making poor judgements. I make you right in the fact that we knew to expect a haircut from the T&C's in the event of a problem and its possible that if done another way there might have been even more moaning.But to me (not sure about others) that would mean being told for example that there was a 2% haircut on money invested across the board and a lower return going forward to refund the provision - so not good but at least clean cut and straight forward But Two months on we find out its now ongoing with tweaks and with a promise/hope that in the 2nd half or early next year things may change
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad on Feb 6, 2020 9:28:30 GMT
Are people overreacting? possibly but they are probably the people who have been caught out by other platforms and thought this was a simple Black box product as mentioned on its home page and had been assured that their was no problem with the rates & provision fund.Maybe the renaming to growth was an early clue who knows? but for many it seems to be a trust issue and it might be true that LW explained all that was going to happen to make the provision fund better but for some reason many people did not suss some of the deeper tweaks (so might be us might be them?) As i mentioned at the end of the day if you are joining today is there anywhere on the homepage or in the links to ISA etc that spell out things like H1 & H2 and cohorts and provision find makeup events? No but there are rates mentioned which i would expect the average investor to expect from day 1 barring defaults so the other may come as a surprise in the future If in doubt, get right out!
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savernake
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Post by savernake on Feb 6, 2020 11:50:59 GMT
“If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation. ” - David Brent.
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macq
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Post by macq on Feb 6, 2020 12:10:50 GMT
Are people overreacting? possibly but they are probably the people who have been caught out by other platforms and thought this was a simple Black box product as mentioned on its home page and had been assured that their was no problem with the rates & provision fund.Maybe the renaming to growth was an early clue who knows? but for many it seems to be a trust issue and it might be true that LW explained all that was going to happen to make the provision fund better but for some reason many people did not suss some of the deeper tweaks (so might be us might be them?) As i mentioned at the end of the day if you are joining today is there anywhere on the homepage or in the links to ISA etc that spell out things like H1 & H2 and cohorts and provision find makeup events? No but there are rates mentioned which i would expect the average investor to expect from day 1 barring defaults so the other may come as a surprise in the future If in doubt, get right out! Think that may be the long term problem for p2p as in the fact everybody who was in it said they understood the risk of defaults and platform failure but after a few platform failures any bad news/press or even if only a just wobble now tend to make investors nervous.To be fair you see the same thing with shares/funds where people are happy on the way up but lose confidence and react in panic on a market downturn The fact is for the life of p2p so far you have had people calling it the wild west and forums like MSE have been negative towards it and many mention platform strength and expertise as their biggest worry,so in the space of a few months for LW to go from a hero of this forum to where they are now is a a shock.Its either over reaction/group hysteria or if there is no problem then the forward part of the plan for the next couple of years after the changes have not been explained very well by LW (maybe institutional money understood better?) but where money is concerned most but not all people will normally act in One way
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rogedavi
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Post by rogedavi on Feb 6, 2020 12:40:06 GMT
The way it was phrased/interpreted at the time was this would be a haircut to 5.4% going forward, not retrospectively. I think its fair to say investors were misled.
For what its worth I took the escape hatch when it was offered as it seemed like a free option at the time (could always buy back in at the 5.4% rate). But I took that decision based on the phrasing/interpretation, and it was a close call. Given current information, it wouldnt have been a difficult choice at all.
I feel for those stuck in LW.
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Post by Ace on Feb 6, 2020 12:42:54 GMT
To clarify my own position; I'm actually very bullish about P2P in general. I'll be increasing my investments again this year, but will be trying to concentrate my funds and energy towards a smaller number of what I consider to be higher quality, asset backed, offerings. I'll still dabble with others and will be tempted in to some new offerings, but with considerably lower sums than my tried and tested platforms.
Despite the failures, P2P has been very interesting and rewarding for me and mine. It will be all the stronger as the quality platforms expand and evolve and the weaker players exit. If only the FCA would grow a pair and do their job it could be much better still.
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macq
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Post by macq on Feb 6, 2020 13:05:37 GMT
To clarify my own position; I'm actually very bullish about P2P in general. I'll be increasing my investments again this year, but will be trying to concentrate my funds and energy towards a smaller number of what I consider to be higher quality, asset backed, offerings. I'll still dabble with others and will be tempted in to some new offerings, but with considerably lower sums than my tried and tested platforms. Despite the failures, P2P has been very interesting and rewarding for me and mine. It will be all the stronger as the quality platforms expand and evolve and the weaker players exit. If only the FCA would grow a pair and do their job it could be much better still. Hopefully you are right but i'm nowhere near as bullish as i once was - unusual for the p2p finance news site and their puff pieces they have Two stories today of more interest one about the struggle for growth in the market and One about PG's which while behind a pay wall can sometimes be read free (or try incognito)
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Feb 6, 2020 13:11:55 GMT
To clarify my own position; I'm actually very bullish about P2P in general. I'll be increasing my investments again this year, but will be trying to concentrate my funds and energy towards a smaller number of what I consider to be higher quality, asset backed, offerings. I'll still dabble with others and will be tempted in to some new offerings, but with considerably lower sums than my tried and tested platforms. Despite the failures, P2P has been very interesting and rewarding for me and mine. It will be all the stronger as the quality platforms expand and evolve and the weaker players exit. If only the FCA would grow a pair and do their job it could be much better still. What has discouraged me is that if the administrators arrive they seem to just rip up the p2p contracts, because all they care about is creditors (not investors). So for all the FCA insisting on a pre arranged wind down plan, and the debt standing between the borrower and us, it just doesn't happen
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