keitha
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Post by keitha on Feb 10, 2020 11:38:28 GMT
2 cases this weekend a Surfer who thought the waves near hasting caused by Storm Ciara would be good and ended up with lifeboats etc called out ( there is a dramatic picture on BBC website of the lifeboat so far over the keel is showing ) and a diver near Oban.
and the idiot towing a caravan over the Woodhead pass when it was closed to highsided vehicles.
My question is should these people be charged the cost of the rescue, if any sensible person wouldn't do it.
I have assumed the diver was a pleasure diver rather than professional
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Feb 10, 2020 11:59:10 GMT
2 cases this weekend a Surfer who thought the waves near hasting caused by Storm Ciara would be good and ended up with lifeboats etc called out ( there is a dramatic picture on BBC website of the lifeboat so far over the keel is showing ) and a diver near Oban. and the idiot towing a caravan over the Woodhead pass when it was closed to highsided vehicles. My question is should these people be charged the cost of the rescue, if any sensible person wouldn't do it. I have assumed the diver was a pleasure diver rather than professional
The problem with this is where do you draw the line. If you caused a car accident because you were driving without due care and attention would you expect to get the bill for the emergency services to attend and clear up the mess that you caused?
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 10, 2020 12:24:18 GMT
2 cases this weekend a Surfer who thought the waves near hasting caused by Storm Ciara would be good and ended up with lifeboats etc called out ( there is a dramatic picture on BBC website of the lifeboat so far over the keel is showing ) and a diver near Oban. and the idiot towing a caravan over the Woodhead pass when it was closed to highsided vehicles. My question is should these people be charged the cost of the rescue, if any sensible person wouldn't do it. I have assumed the diver was a pleasure diver rather than professional
The problem with this is where do you draw the ilne. If you caused a car accident because you were driving without due care and attention would you expect to get the bill for the emergency services to attend and clear up the mess that you caused? And if you got lung cancer despite the known risks of smoking? Diabetes through obesity that you made insufficient efforts to address? Self harm and suicide from depression? Making a stupid decision in the heat of the moment that turns out badly (water, mountains, caves, etc etc) Fine lines indeed
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Feb 10, 2020 12:30:05 GMT
2 cases this weekend a Surfer who thought the waves near hasting caused by Storm Ciara would be good and ended up with lifeboats etc called out ( there is a dramatic picture on BBC website of the lifeboat so far over the keel is showing ) and a diver near Oban. and the idiot towing a caravan over the Woodhead pass when it was closed to highsided vehicles. My question is should these people be charged the cost of the rescue, if any sensible person wouldn't do it. I have assumed the diver was a pleasure diver rather than professional It's a fair point. Taking it a stage further, what would the "idiots" legal position be, if say, one of the rescuers died in the act of trying to save them? (God forbid)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2020 9:01:38 GMT
Years back, Mrs bobo broke an arm hang gliding at the same time that a work colleague broke his arm playing Rugby. The company tried to claim that the she should not be paid sick pay because she had taken part in a dangerous sport.
As you can imagine that got short shrift.
It does question the responsability of being in a National Health Service. If we all pay in and we all take out then I don't want anyone to smoke, or if they do, only that which generates the most tax and the least cancer.
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Feb 11, 2020 12:48:57 GMT
2 cases this weekend a Surfer who thought the waves near hasting caused by Storm Ciara would be good and ended up with lifeboats etc called out ( there is a dramatic picture on BBC website of the lifeboat so far over the keel is showing ) and a diver near Oban. and the idiot towing a caravan over the Woodhead pass when it was closed to highsided vehicles. My question is should these people be charged the cost of the rescue, if any sensible person wouldn't do it. I have assumed the diver was a pleasure diver rather than professional If you are doing something that you shouldn't be doing then most definitely. If the coastguard has said don't go in the sea and they do then they should be charged for being rescued and the road was closed to high sided vehicles.
The sensible person comment, as has been mentioned, is too ambiguous.
My personal view point is that they shouldn't be rescued as they chose to risk their own life having been told not to and it is selfish of them to expect others to risk their life to save them. I know this isn't a popular view but why should the good hearted be possibly punished because of the selfishness of another.
My biggest one of these is the kids and adults that got stuck in the caves, not only did their stupidity get someone killed that was rescuing them but Man Utd thought it would be a good idea to reward their stupidity.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 11, 2020 13:19:31 GMT
2 cases this weekend a Surfer who thought the waves near hasting caused by Storm Ciara would be good and ended up with lifeboats etc called out ( there is a dramatic picture on BBC website of the lifeboat so far over the keel is showing ) and a diver near Oban. and the idiot towing a caravan over the Woodhead pass when it was closed to highsided vehicles. My question is should these people be charged the cost of the rescue, if any sensible person wouldn't do it. I have assumed the diver was a pleasure diver rather than professional If you are doing something that you shouldn't be doing then most definitely. If the coastguard has said don't go in the sea and they do then they should be charged for being rescued and the road was closed to high sided vehicles.
The sensible person comment, as has been mentioned, is too ambiguous.
My personal view point is that they shouldn't be rescued as they chose to risk their own life having been told not to and it is selfish of them to expect others to risk their life to save them. I know this isn't a popular view but why should the good hearted be possibly punished because of the selfishness of another.
My biggest one of these is the kids and adults that got stuck in the caves, not only did their stupidity get someone killed that was rescuing them but Man Utd thought it would be a good idea to reward their stupidity.
If their decision making capacity was impaired? Medication side effects, ADHD, psychiatric illness, etc etc? You'd let them die first and find out afterwards?
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Post by dan1 on Feb 11, 2020 13:29:17 GMT
2 cases this weekend a Surfer who thought the waves near hasting caused by Storm Ciara would be good and ended up with lifeboats etc called out ( there is a dramatic picture on BBC website of the lifeboat so far over the keel is showing ) and a diver near Oban. and the idiot towing a caravan over the Woodhead pass when it was closed to highsided vehicles. My question is should these people be charged the cost of the rescue, if any sensible person wouldn't do it. I have assumed the diver was a pleasure diver rather than professional If you are doing something that you shouldn't be doing then most definitely. ... Couldn't agree more. The emergency services are not there to bail out peoples lifestyle choices. For example, the NHS shouldn't treat anyone with a BMI over 25 for heart/lung/liver/kidney/diabetes/cancer without payment upfront. Enough of the nanny state bailing out lifestyle choices.
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jonno
Member of DD Central
nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Feb 11, 2020 13:35:34 GMT
If you are doing something that you shouldn't be doing then most definitely. ... Couldn't agree more. The emergency services are not there to bail out peoples lifestyle choices. For example, the NHS shouldn't treat anyone with a BMI over 25 for heart/lung/liver/kidney/diabetes/cancer without payment upfront. Enough of the nanny state bailing out lifestyle choices. Mmm; so would your BMI babes get significant reductions in their NI and Income Tax rates?
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archie
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Post by archie on Feb 11, 2020 13:39:29 GMT
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Feb 11, 2020 14:26:53 GMT
Couldn't agree more. The emergency services are not there to bail out peoples lifestyle choices. For example, the NHS shouldn't treat anyone with a BMI over 25 for heart/lung/liver/kidney/diabetes/cancer without payment upfront. Enough of the nanny state bailing out lifestyle choices. Mmm; so would your BMI babes get significant reductions in their NI and Income Tax rates? HMM im 5ft 9, 12stone 2 , my BMI comes out at 25, most athletes ( i'm not one have a BMI in excess of 25 )
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Feb 11, 2020 14:36:34 GMT
If you are doing something that you shouldn't be doing then most definitely. If the coastguard has said don't go in the sea and they do then they should be charged for being rescued and the road was closed to high sided vehicles.
The sensible person comment, as has been mentioned, is too ambiguous.
My personal view point is that they shouldn't be rescued as they chose to risk their own life having been told not to and it is selfish of them to expect others to risk their life to save them. I know this isn't a popular view but why should the good hearted be possibly punished because of the selfishness of another.
My biggest one of these is the kids and adults that got stuck in the caves, not only did their stupidity get someone killed that was rescuing them but Man Utd thought it would be a good idea to reward their stupidity.
If their decision making capacity was impaired? Medication side effects, ADHD, psychiatric illness, etc etc? You'd let them die first and find out afterwards? I'd still rescue them, but if it were a case of stupidity Bill them, Another case in point is the group rescued from Ben Nevis yesterday in wind chill of -20, With No proper equipment and 3 of the 4 in trainers !
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Feb 11, 2020 14:37:05 GMT
Mmm; so would your BMI babes get significant reductions in their NI and Income Tax rates? HMM im 5ft 9, 12stone 2 , my BMI comes out at 25, most athletes ( i'm not one have a BMI in excess of 25 ) Wow, that definitely makes me an athlete then. Thanks for that 
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