star dust
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,998
Likes: 3,531
|
Post by star dust on Feb 19, 2020 11:56:54 GMT
Quote taken from the P2P in 2020 poll thread - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/16672/p2p-2020?page=3I notice assetz capital is highest on the list, whilst knowing this is not necessarily saying it is the best p2p product/s I was wondering what if anything leads people to this decision. I am not thinking of punting on them but I have been having a look at them as a result not because of this poll but the way a number of forumites seem to be using them. I am wading through ilmoro 's pinned thread bearing in mind its quite old but if anyone has some quick insights etc I'd appreciate it. I’m not sure that thread is a very good idea, I think you will find AC is an entirely different beast these days. However, there are no real summary threads for their products. Not necessarily insightful, but as a bit of a summary.
They basically have four products (x2 for same in IFISA) The first three (Access Accounts) with monthly payments of interest, the last with interest paid on a loan by loan basis. The Access Accounts with a provision fund. The Access Accounts (instant access *under normal market conditions*) QAA – currently pays 4.1% instant access* 30Day – currently pays 5.1% - 30 days notice for fee free withdrawal* 90Day – currently pays 5.75% - 90 days notice for fee free withdrawal* MLIA (Manual Loan Investment Account) – variable interest rates circa 500 individual live asset backed loans to invest in. Please note all accounts are basically invested in the same loans except the Access Accounts also contain a variable wedge of cash. Access accounts are invest and forget, MLIA on a manual loan by loan operation where you can set buy and or sell orders and can sell at par or a discount. You set and forget though as that’s all you can do, you then wait for the instruction to happen automatically. The entire shebang is operated by an exceedingly complex algorithm (sometimes referred to as the hamster) that possibly even chris it’s author, may not fully understand 😉. For some individual threads, in no particular order or indication of usefulness. All Access Accounts - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/15834/implied-excess-access-accountsQAA –http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/16218/90-day-qaa & p2pindependentforum.com/thread/13673/qaa-swept-funds30Day - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/13398/30-day-account-question90Day - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/14330/new-90-day-access-accountMLIA - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/12223/announcement-large-scale-diversification-mla too many to mention individual loan threads. Provision Fund - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/14210/provision-funds-balances-coverage-ratios |
|
jonno
Member of DD Central
nil satis nisi optimum
Posts: 2,806 
Likes: 3,237
|
Post by jonno on Feb 19, 2020 12:05:07 GMT
Quote taken from the P2P in 2020 poll thread - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/16672/p2p-2020?page=3I notice assetz capital is highest on the list, whilst knowing this is not necessarily saying it is the best p2p product/s I was wondering what if anything leads people to this decision. I am not thinking of punting on them but I have been having a look at them as a result not because of this poll but the way a number of forumites seem to be using them. I am wading through ilmoro 's pinned thread bearing in mind its quite old but if anyone has some quick insights etc I'd appreciate it. I’m not sure that thread is a very good idea, I think you will find AC is an entirely different beast these days. However, there are no real summary threads for their products. Not necessarily insightful, but as a bit of a summary.
They basically have four products (x2 for same in IFISA) The first three (Access Accounts) with monthly payments of interest, the last with interest paid on a loan by loan basis. The Access Accounts with a provision fund. The Access Accounts (instant access *under normal market conditions*) QAA – currently pays 4.1% instant access* 30Day – currently pays 5.25% - 30 days notice for fee free withdrawal* 90Day – currently pays 5.75% - 90 days notice for fee free withdrawal* MLIA (Manual Loan Investment Account) – variable interest rates circa 500 individual live asset backed loans to invest in. Please note all accounts are basically invested in the same loans except the Access Accounts also contain a variable wedge of cash. Access accounts are invest and forget, MLIA on a manual loan by loan operation where you can set buy and or sell orders and can sell at par or a discount. You set and forget though as that’s all you can do, you then wait for the instruction to happen automatically. The entire shebang is operated by an exceedingly complex algorithm (sometimes referred to as the hamster) that possibly even chris it’s author, may not fully understand 😉. For some individual threads, in no particular order or indication of usefulness. All Access Accounts - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/15834/implied-excess-access-accountsQAA –http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/16218/90-day-qaa & p2pindependentforum.com/thread/13673/qaa-swept-funds30Day - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/13398/30-day-account-question90Day - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/14330/new-90-day-access-accountMLIA - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/12223/announcement-large-scale-diversification-mla too many to mention individual loan threads. Provision Fund - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/14210/provision-funds-balances-coverage-ratiosGood summary, but doesn't the 30 day account pay 5.1% (rather than 5.25%)?
|
|
aju
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,500
Likes: 924
|
Post by aju on Feb 19, 2020 12:28:55 GMT
Many thanks star dust much appreciate your help and guidance, I have been reading their website rather than the original links but had noticed it was quite old. Whilst I've been in Zopa since nearly the beginning and the last year and a bit in RS I've seen a number of people on the forums big up AC, in particular the QAA so really appreciate your stab at more recent info. Not sure how I will find time to poke around and comment on yet another forum though  . As I say I have been looking at their website and noticing their estimates and target rates but the small print does worry me slightly that its not going to be for me especially the Choose own loans and rates option. Also to get the PF it does seem to be a capped target that is top end and the true rates do seem to dip down below that quite a bit. My experience of Zopa recently does show me the effect of target rates and in their case the ranges are more obvious than on a non members view - I guess that's more marketing and the small print is key!. One thing I think is interesting is their website. As a non member I can see a lot more info easier and more obvious than many sites and does seem very professional compared to both Zopa and RS but as we are all probably familiar on here of the old trap of appearances never being all what they seem. I may be looking for a friend though as I think it maybe a platform to start a new ISA plan next fin year and £50 for a £1000 punt might be interesting for us both - this time I must remember to stagger lending so we don't get stuck in the same loans though  . |
|
star dust
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,998
Likes: 3,531
|
Post by star dust on Feb 19, 2020 12:50:46 GMT
With the AC Access accounts there is no such thing as cash drag or need for staggering deposits. For a £1000 hit in an access account your funds will be “notionally” invested across the whole range of loans virtually instantly. There is proportionate lending for all in the access accounts too i.e. you will usually (might be a time interval) all end up with the same proportions of the same loans. If you analyse your underlying loans in the access accounts you will find buying and selling going on automatically as the overall loan book rebalances with new loans, defaults and repayments. Any defaulted or suspended loans you appear to hold in the access accounts are supposed to be underwritten by the provision fund.
|
|
ceejay
Posts: 975
Likes: 1,149
|
Post by ceejay on Feb 19, 2020 13:05:52 GMT
...Also to get the PF it does seem to be a capped target that is top end and the true rates do seem to dip down below that quite a bit. My experience of Zopa recently does show me the effect of target rates and in their case the ranges are more obvious than on a non members view - I guess that's more marketing and the small print is key!. ... Just to pick up on this point, I think you may have misread something. The Access accounts rates (4.1/5.1/5.75) are all described as target but, to date, they have always paid the advertised rate. As with all things P2P, this is not guaranteed always to be true, just like the instant liquidity which is "normally" true (i.e. always has been so far but...) If you like RS then IMHO I think you should also be looking at the AC QAA and 30DAA. I see the latter in particular as being somewhat equivalent to the RS 1Y product (yes, I know, different in many details, but in terms of risk and reward). My RS 1Y funds are falling at the moment as, despite a little upwards blip over Xmas, rates seem to be falling again there and I don't know how much longer this will be viable. The AC QAA is a direct competitor to the RS Access product but is a LOT easier to use, though with no opportunity to game the rates. You pays your money... Worth remembering, though, that in recent years AC have often offered good bonuses for new cash coming in around ISA season, ie in a few weeks time, so it might be worth holding off till then.
|
|
aju
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,500
Likes: 924
|
Post by aju on Feb 19, 2020 14:28:03 GMT
...Also to get the PF it does seem to be a capped target that is top end and the true rates do seem to dip down below that quite a bit. My experience of Zopa recently does show me the effect of target rates and in their case the ranges are more obvious than on a non members view - I guess that's more marketing and the small print is key!. ... Just to pick up on this point, I think you may have misread something. The Access accounts rates (4.1/5.1/5.75) are all described as target but, to date, they have always paid the advertised rate. As with all things P2P, this is not guaranteed always to be true, just like the instant liquidity which is "normally" true (i.e. always has been so far but...) If you like RS then IMHO I think you should also be looking at the AC QAA and 30DAA. I see the latter in particular as being somewhat equivalent to the RS 1Y product (yes, I know, different in many details, but in terms of risk and reward). My RS 1Y funds are falling at the moment as, despite a little upwards blip over Xmas, rates seem to be falling again there and I don't know how much longer this will be viable. The AC QAA is a direct competitor to the RS Access product but is a LOT easier to use, though with no opportunity to game the rates. You pays your money... Worth remembering, though, that in recent years AC have often offered good bonuses for new cash coming in around ISA season, ie in a few weeks time, so it might be worth holding off till then. Yeah they may be "to date" but their detailed description of the 5.1% states it is a capped target in a range that can go down to 4% these are their figures not mine in docs outside an account I can see that explains the headline rates. "The target rate can vary, but it won’t drop below 4% p.a." The "Find out more" options here do detail these statements further. Their words not mine and similarly they state 3.75% as the lower rate for the 4.1% again their figures not mine. They don't seem to have a lower rate detailed for the 5.75%. I'm sure there is a similar quotes on RS rates although I've not come across them as yet for so far only Zopa is plain and clear but I am a lender and Zopa rates have only recently detailed a spread and since the rates are mostly not covered by a PF they are increasingly likely to dip that low too!. I am thinking of the QAA and the 30DAA as an option especially as I am investing in the Access and the 1Y (moving most from the 5Y as an age based strategy). I'm also snapping up better rates in both Access and 1Y at certain times. The RS 1Y revived a little today but there was still a 2.5M wall sitting at 4.9%. I am looking at waiting until the new ISA term and am considering a £1000 punt on a referral if I can find a friend!. AC did say they have an offer at the moment but also suggested there might be others nearer the time. Looking at their referral terms does seem to suggest they have these almost every month though. The more I read the more I realise I need to be well clued up before we have a £1000 punt each, I'll refer Mrs Aju too if their terms still allow (currently limited to 2 referrals per same property). Edit: I've already found a willing friend.
|
|
aju
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,500
Likes: 924
|
Post by aju on Feb 19, 2020 14:58:52 GMT
I do have an interesting dilemma if I want to lend on AC. This is the first time I would be lending on a new platform since the new rules and clearly on RS and on Zopa I've a much better understanding of how their platforms work. Ok so I will not be putting all the family silver onto this platform initially but should I still declare as a self declared "sophisticated investor". I'm only investing £1000 if do join.
Any ideas?, Do I have to pass a test?, Zopa and Rs just had a series of words to select when I last did it.
Just wondering
|
|
|
|
Post by Ace on Feb 19, 2020 15:01:57 GMT
Is there any particular reason that you're not considering the 90DAA?
AC allow you to use the rolling withdrawal technique to allow earlier access to your funds. I use rolling weekly withdrawals of 1/13th of my total, cancelling them the day before they are due if not required. I accept that the size of the PF will be smaller than that of the 30DAA, but the higher rate seems worth the extra risk to me.
|
|
rscal
Posts: 985
Likes: 537
|
Post by rscal on Feb 19, 2020 15:05:48 GMT
Just to point out that any freed-up cash withdrawals from the platform in-practice reach your (nominated) current account the same working day provided notice is given before 12 noon.
|
|
aju
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,500
Likes: 924
|
Post by aju on Feb 19, 2020 16:05:57 GMT
Is there any particular reason that you're not considering the 90DAA? AC allow you to use the rolling withdrawal technique to allow earlier access to your funds. I use rolling weekly withdrawals of 1/13th of my total, cancelling them the day before they are due if not required. I accept that the size of the PF will be smaller than that of the 30DAA, but the higher rate seems worth the extra risk to me. Only that I started looking at the prospect of AC from today, so it's a bit early for me to make valid/informed decisions. If the QAA is free and the 30Day is not then that may be a reason to consider. That said on the RS 1Y I have to pay a fee so it's just a case of getting more understanding under my belt I think. It was also assuming the QAA was similar to RS_Access which has been quite lucrative for me lately. I superficially looked at the top level stuff but if the 30DAA means I have to wait 30Days - RS_Access is instant (dependant on funds of course) but I could probably cope with a 30Day loss. As I say I need to understand the products and their rates/value better to be able to see the wood for the trees. Your rolling withdrawal looks interesting - I am drawing down on Zopa invest in a similar way although at present I am letting it build for a month, but am considering weekly myself. On AC can you tell it to automatically withdraw - not sure I can do that on Zopa or RS so that may be a good point too. Thanks for your comment though, I assume you directed it at me but if not sorry for the intrusion.
|
|
alanh
Posts: 556
Likes: 560
|
Post by alanh on Feb 19, 2020 16:53:22 GMT
The bulk of my p2p is now in RS and AC. I cycle between the 2 according to the fluctuations in the access account rates on RS - generally I am withdrawing from RS and depositing into AC 90DAA and setting up the rolling withdrawal as described by Ace. Occasionally, as happened a few weeks ago, the RS access rate spikes up enough for me to shift money in the opposite direction.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ace on Feb 19, 2020 16:55:53 GMT
Is there any particular reason that you're not considering the 90DAA? AC allow you to use the rolling withdrawal technique to allow earlier access to your funds. I use rolling weekly withdrawals of 1/13th of my total, cancelling them the day before they are due if not required. I accept that the size of the PF will be smaller than that of the 30DAA, but the higher rate seems worth the extra risk to me. Only that I started looking at the prospect of AC from today, so it's a bit early for me to make valid/informed decisions. If the QAA is free and the 30Day is not then that may be a reason to consider. That said on the RS 1Y I have to pay a fee so it's just a case of getting more understanding under my belt I think. It was also assuming the QAA was similar to RS_Access which has been quite lucrative for me lately. I superficially looked at the top level stuff but if the 30DAA means I have to wait 30Days - RS_Access is instant (dependant on funds of course) but I could probably cope with a 30Day loss. As I say I need to understand the products and their rates/value better to be able to see the wood for the trees. Your rolling withdrawal looks interesting - I am drawing down on Zopa invest in a similar way although at present I am letting it build for a month, but am considering weekly myself. On AC can you tell it to automatically withdraw - not sure I can do that on Zopa or RS so that may be a good point too. Thanks for your comment though, I assume you directed it at me but if not sorry for the intrusion. There's no fee for accessing your cash in any of the AC accounts. To be clear, I use the rolling withdrawal technique to gain earlier access to my funds than would otherwise be possible. I'm not actually intending to make the withdrawals, so usually cancel them the day before they are due. For example, if I had £13k in the 90DAA Account, I would initiate a withdrawal of £1k each Friday. After 90 days (~13 weeks) there would be a £1k withdrawal due every Thursday (90 days after the withdrawal notice). Each Wednesday, if I don't need the funds that week, I cancel tomorrow's withdrawal. Hope that makes sense. Obviously you could use the same technique with the 30DAA, or choose to set up withdrawals every 30 days to access 1/3 of your funds in the 90DAA. No, I don't believe there is any auto-withdrawal on any off the AC accounts. I use the same technique on Loanpad to get a potential withdrawal every Monday, so have another chance to access to some funds in the week. Their notice period is 60 days, so I choose 1/9 of my funds per week there. They also have the advantage of allowing you to set withdrawals for any time after the 60 day notice period, so if you know you want access to a specific sum on a specific day you don't have to time the withdrawal request exactly. While we're on the subject, I also have cash spread over at least 10 loans on Growth Street, so have another potential fund access there roughly every 3 days. So, in total, I have 4 potential chances to access funds per week. This is probably overkill, but it has virtually eliminated my need for instant access accounts. I should probably add that I also have some emergency funds in PBs and a float in some current accounts, before I get lambasted by the "don't use P2P like a bank account" brigade 😉
|
|
ashtondav
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,814
Likes: 1,092
|
Post by ashtondav on Feb 19, 2020 16:56:32 GMT
It is free to sell your loans and withdraw on all the AC access accounts AJU. And even better there are no fees at all on the ISA product. No transfer in fee, no transfer out fee and no selling fee is impressive, and shows great confidence in the product, I think.
|
|
aju
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,500
Likes: 924
|
Post by aju on Feb 19, 2020 17:11:29 GMT
Thanks ashtondav and Ace and others for your insights I'm getting very interested as this and another thread goes on. |
|
|
|
Post by df on Feb 19, 2020 17:33:46 GMT
Is there any particular reason that you're not considering the 90DAA? AC allow you to use the rolling withdrawal technique to allow earlier access to your funds. I use rolling weekly withdrawals of 1/13th of my total, cancelling them the day before they are due if not required. I accept that the size of the PF will be smaller than that of the 30DAA, but the higher rate seems worth the extra risk to me. I use similar strategy. Every morning, whilst checking my e-mails and diary, I make a small withdrawal from 30D and 90D (approximately the value of investment divided by the number of days for access). If there's anything new (not to the same borrower) at 7%+, I use my withdrawals to fund my MLA - if not, the money are going back to access accounts. Worked well for me so far. Also it helps me to make an easy withdrawal when my AC funds go above my self-imposed limit without much use of a lower paying QAA. I maintain a very small amount in cash in case there is a loan flood, but it probably not necessary any more (I haven't see more than 3 loans on the same day @7%+ for ages).
|
|
.
.
