corto
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one-syllabistic
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Post by corto on Jun 7, 2021 21:33:44 GMT
I should perhaps add that I didn't have standing cancellation orders on 90d. They just canceled a fraction, ~10% in the ISA.
I'm a bit slow. Why do they do this? Cancel and reinvest in the same thing? Loads of loans that repaid?
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Post by brummiefred on Jun 7, 2021 21:36:04 GMT
Too much cash, so we have had a percentage withdrawn and then reinvested but in a queue with no interest accruing AIUI
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Jun 7, 2021 21:55:20 GMT
I've given AC the benefit of the doubt and been understanding of them when so many people were criticising them last year. I even kept regularly topping up my investments with them when many other lenders were abandoning their ship during the pandemic. But what they have done this evening is preposterous!
I had a six figure sum in 90DAA and they have suddenly withdrawn 100% of it to the uninvested cash pot!
I had set it to withdraw a few weeks ago, as I always do just in case AC come up with some new hair-brained initiative as they sometimes do and that way I'm working my way up the 90 day waiting period in case I need to exit, but then I always continue investing.
I've tried to reinvest even some of the money that AC's shoved into 'cash', but AC won't let me.
The fact that they have suddenly kicked out 100% of my money from the AAs and won't let me reinvest it really does take the biscuit.
AC certainly excel at treating their investors like absolute dirt! I've tolerated all their shenanigans over the last year, but now I absolutely despise them.
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Post by Ace on Jun 7, 2021 22:11:19 GMT
I suspect that a large chunk of this rejected cash will find its way to Loanpad. A platform that didn't suffer from any of the lockin problems during Covid, is happy to accommodate rolling withdrawals, has lower 42% average LTVs, seems to welcome retail investors, and is generally going from strength to strength.
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alender
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Post by alender on Jun 7, 2021 22:31:44 GMT
It is somewhat ironic AC after a year of sitting on excess cash would not pay it out and is now removing cash from the accounts. Perhaps AC should consider a leaving bonus, bet that would solve the excess cash problem.
This I believe is another sign of the problems of P2P in the current financial climate while the government is throwing money in all directions, the safer loans can get cheap money at rates which make P2P unattractive.
As there are no new loans to speak of then as the best loans repay it will increase the % of non performing loans and therefore the risk in the AAs.
It would be interesting to know how much this has been caused by new money or loan repayments a number of which could be borrowers moving to cheaper finance.
With this move, the risks with P2P or at least the AC P2P model and the low returns compared to other safer investments it is difficult to see much future for AAs at least until well after the end of government covid support.
Although I have done well from the repaid AC funds mostly invested in REITs not only with much better rates but also capital appreciation which has been giving better returns than the dividends it is unfortunate AC did not release the excess cash during the lock in when the best deal were to be had. AC kept hold of these funds forcing some to sell out at discount on the SM in the hope of the commissions they would get on new borrowing which never arrived which was predictable give the government backed loans.
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iano
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Post by iano on Jun 7, 2021 23:00:23 GMT
I've given AC the benefit of the doubt and been understanding of them when so many people were criticising them last year. I even kept regularly topping up my investments with them when many other lenders were abandoning their ship during the pandemic. But what they have done this evening is preposterous! I had a six figure sum in 90DAA and they have suddenly withdrawn 100% of it to the uninvested cash pot! I had set it to withdraw a few weeks ago, as I always do just in case AC come up with some new hair-brained initiative as they sometimes do and that way I'm working my way up the 90 day waiting period in case I need to exit, but then I always continue investing. I've tried to reinvest even some of the money that AC's shoved into 'cash', but AC won't let me. The fact that they have suddenly kicked out 100% of my money from the AAs and won't let me reinvest it really does take the biscuit. AC certainly excel at treating their investors like absolute dirt! I've tolerated all their shenanigans over the last year, but now I absolutely despise them. Unfortunately this pretty much sums up my feelings on this. I've given AC the benefit of the doubt multiple times and stuck by them as they tried to navigate the past few years but dropping this on us with no prior warning is disgusting and I do feel like I've been treated as an afterthought - I really feel sorry for people who have recently deposited (especially in an ISA) that now have to unpick this. From some very poorly offered and handled loans at their outset (I'm still waiting for my mineral water) to the topsy-turvy, pillar to post handling of recent events I've just lost faith and I'm breaking my rule on diversification and sticking the lot in LoanPad - knowing my luck they'll be next. I've made a decent (scrap that - it's a good) return on Assetz over the many years but it's no longer about the money I just don't trust them anymore. It would be nice to know my final score but until they put in the functionality to finally crystallize losses (something you'd have thought would be there from the start but after at least two website revamps I can recall still is impossible) I'll just have to try and figure it out myself. The amusing aspect is it wasn't that long ago Assetz were crowing about how they'd have to manage all the new money from Ratesetter etc., from the looks of it that's now someone else's problem. It'll also no doubt be galling to see the articles on the eminently reliable and unbiased P2P review sites (you know the ones) allowing Assetz to spin this as a 'we're so popular we just can't handle the fame' aspect rather than the 'failure to acquire new business like others have done' that it really is. OK, rant over - I may completely change tack tomorrow but for now I'm fuming.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 23:50:08 GMT
I too am appalled by what AC have done tonight, and joined the forum purely to express my huge disappointment. With only a couple of hours warning, AC have transferred almost 100% of the very significant funds I held in the 90AA to my cash account. Like the poster above, I had an ongoing withdrawal request with a couple of months left to run, but would have cancelled it nearer the time (and had AC given any warning at all this would be the outcome, would have cancelled it before these latest round of rule changes).
I now have a very large amount of ISA funds sitting earning zero interest with no indication of how long they might take to match, and no apology from AC. For me, despite having previously loved the AC model and the regular predictable interest payments, this is a step too far and I will be winding down fully / transferring all ISA funds out to another provider as soon as I can.
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corto
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Post by corto on Jun 7, 2021 23:53:39 GMT
Looks like whatever loan request came along was funded by CBILS over the last or so year. That shares the securities between us and gov but probably also makes the loans somewhat safer. The QAA queues were emptied, which is in a sense what people asked for when they set up the requests. The MLA drained, because it pays more than the QAAs for less fees. As a consequence the MLA default rate per volume doubled to 30% throughout the loan book. Now there is too much cash for too little new loans. Whoever had sell instructions got what they asked for (what else could AC assume as that that is what the customer wants?) The excess was released to whoever did not ask for it (10%). Apparently AC would not have wanted to pay 4% interest on cash for an extended time. They had to do this. Could have been better managed; and setting up buy orders without lender confirmation was probably inappropriate. Or perhaps they only did that for those that had the reinvest option on (not sure I had).
Any idea were this is going to go?
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dead-money
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Post by dead-money on Jun 7, 2021 23:59:19 GMT
Any idea were this is going to go? To the FOS...
Unilaterally exiting customers from notice accounts early.
Unilaterally setting reinvest orders on customer funds, which were forcibly disinvested.
No prior notice of these changes.
How is any of that within the bounds of the contract between AC and their lenders?
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iano
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Post by iano on Jun 8, 2021 0:02:34 GMT
Looks like whatever loan request came along was funded by CBILS over the last or so year. That shares the securities between us and gov but probably also makes the loans somewhat safer. The QAA queues were emptied, which is in a sense what people asked for when they set up the requests. The MLA drained, because it pays more than the QAAs for less fees. As a consequence the MLA default rate per volume doubled to 30% throughout the loan book. Now there is too much cash for too little new loans. Whoever had sell instructions got what they asked for (what else could AC assume as that that is what the customer wants?) The excess was released to whoever did not ask for it (10%). Apparently AC would not have wanted to pay 4% interest on cash for an extended time. They had to do this. Could have been better managed; and setting up buy orders without lender confirmation was probably inappropriate. Or perhaps they only did that for those that had the reinvest option on (not sure I had). Any idea were this is going to go? Just to clarify, I had no withdrawal requests in progress, everything set to re-invest in the AA account and had actually invested in the Access Accounts while people were wanting to leave - I do not feel like I got what I wanted! As for where it's going to go - for me - somewhere else!
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mogish
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Post by mogish on Jun 8, 2021 6:56:19 GMT
As above. No point in ranting anymore.too much hassle. I'm out.
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Post by davefoz on Jun 8, 2021 7:00:05 GMT
I'm annoyed! It comes as a rude shock for those who maintained their investment in the Access Accounts through last year's "difficulties" to find that AC have just forced us to take a 10% withdrawal. No warning, no recompense. So much for loyalty... While the access accounts were locked up AC did say they were looking at loyalty. Someone asked a question about it via the Ask the Panel in October. Am not sure if Ask the Panel has been scrapped as we haven't had one recently. "Have you ever considered rewarding loyalty giving long term investors or investors with greater amounts invested?" This was what AC said regarding rewarding loyalty. Am not sure what plans regarding loyalty were communicated after this. "We think rewarding the loyalty of existing investors is a fantastic idea and we’re currently looking into how we can best do that as it seems a very fair thing to do for the huge number of investors wanting to continue with our investments and grow them. We’ll communicate our plans with investors in the coming months, but we’ll also be reaching out to investors to get your thoughts and opinions - so keep an eye out for that." I’ve consistently been miffed by AC failing to reward loyalty and level of investment whilst inducing new customers with premium rates when investing 50 Quid. Realistically the business should look at diverting its excess cash burying its dead GBBA I & II.
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Post by davefoz on Jun 8, 2021 7:02:20 GMT
Any idea were this is going to go? To the FOS...
Unilaterally exiting customers from notice accounts early.
Unilaterally setting reinvest orders on customer funds, which were forcibly disinvested.
No prior notice of these changes.
How is any of that within the bounds of the contract between AC and their lenders?
Join the queue @ the FSO I know there are many on here with multiple complaints dating back to this time last year whose complaints have not been allocated yet.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Jun 8, 2021 7:24:46 GMT
Having got to the unfortunate point where the queue to invest in the access accounts was put in too late IMHO I think AC had little choice.
The alternative would have been to reduce the lender interest rates on the access accounts. I doubt this would have been popular and may have seen more money leave the accounts all over again. AC have said in the past they would rather not do this.
With so little unallocated cash in the PFs there is little room for flexibility. There was just 50k not ring fenced in the 90DAA at the last update. A single large loan getting into trouble for an unknown reason could have caused issues in the short term at least. Building up the PFs to be able to handle future risks is absolutely critical. The PFs are underfunded at the moment IMHO. I think the reality is that the 90DAA interest rate is perhaps too high at the moment in the short term.
CBIL has been very popular with borrowers. AC are yet to be authorised for the Recovery Loan Scheme but if/when they are we don't yet know if this scheme will be more popular with AC borrowers than AC P2P lending. Am not sure how many typical AC borrowers from previous years have now been put off AC P2P and P2P lending for good.
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Post by Ace on Jun 8, 2021 8:56:20 GMT
This whole situation smacks of more poor management decisions at AC to me. One minute they're crowing about being the largest P2P platform where retail lenders can still invest and boasting at being a suitable place for the cash being returned from the closing RS accounts, the next minute they're kicking out portions of invested funds. Surely a competent management should have seen this coming and closed to new deposits some time before needing to kick invested funds out! I can't think of any other platform that has "managed" themselves into that position.
I've been withdrawing from AC for some time now due to the lack of opportunities in the MLA. I'm now down to under half my peak investment. Due to the constantly shifting sands, I doubt I will add funds back to AC in future, though I'm a sucker for a cashback bribe, so never say never.
One good thing that's come out of this situation is that the femto-pence in each of my access accounts has been cleared out. It's satisfying to see clean zero balances in those accounts.
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