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Post by Harland Kearney on Aug 12, 2020 13:55:05 GMT
Hopefully we might see more cash redemptions, but AC has proven to be a little unpredictable.
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Aug 12, 2020 14:49:52 GMT
absolute FAILURE for me. Cancelled QAA withdrawal, requested do one with a discount, got 'expected amount to be float', it kept asking me for 2FA over and over again then told me I had made too many attempts. Nothing works it seems. Live Chat connection Unavailable. Awesome. Edit: I have tried multiple amounts and all I get it "Expected amount to be a float'Oh dear, I really hope they aren't using Floating Point variables to hold a currency value !!!
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iRobot
Member of DD Central
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Post by iRobot on Aug 12, 2020 15:04:05 GMT
absolute FAILURE for me. Cancelled QAA withdrawal, requested do one with a discount, got 'expected amount to be float', it kept asking me for 2FA over and over again then told me I had made too many attempts. Nothing works it seems. Live Chat connection Unavailable. Awesome. Edit: I have tried multiple amounts and all I get it "Expected amount to be a float'Oh dear, I really hope they aren't using Floating Point variables to hold a currency value !!! Why so? Especially when AC operate to the umpteenth decimal place. Would it not be better from a data consistency perspective? (Less likely to encounter errors from some kind of mismatch?) I'm not a programmer, so I really don't know!
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dead-money
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Post by dead-money on Aug 12, 2020 15:35:18 GMT
Oh dear, I really hope they aren't using Floating Point variables to hold a currency value !!! Why so? Especially when AC operate to the umpteenth decimal place. Would it not be better from a data consistency perspective? (Less likely to encounter errors from some kind of mismatch?) I'm not a programmer, so I really don't know! Floating point variables are only accurate to a certain number of places, i.e. numbers are rounded up and down. So you might store £15 Million and get £14,990,000 back.
Over the years I've found a few CRM systems and even a treasury system which used floating point for currencies and anarchy ensued.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Aug 12, 2020 15:43:13 GMT
Why so? Especially when AC operate to the umpteenth decimal place. Would it not be better from a data consistency perspective? (Less likely to encounter errors from some kind of mismatch?) I'm not a programmer, so I really don't know! Floating point variables are only accurate to a certain number of places, i.e. numbers are rounded up and down. So you might store £15 Million and get £14,990,000 back.
Over the years I've found a few CRM systems and even a treasury system which used floating point for currencies and anarchy ensued.
Got it - thanks to the very useful link - appreciated.
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Post by dan1 on Aug 12, 2020 15:53:35 GMT
absolute FAILURE for me. Cancelled QAA withdrawal, requested do one with a discount, got 'expected amount to be float', it kept asking me for 2FA over and over again then told me I had made too many attempts. Nothing works it seems. Live Chat connection Unavailable. Awesome. Edit: I have tried multiple amounts and all I get it "Expected amount to be a float'Oh dear, I really hope they aren't using Floating Point variables to hold a currency value !!! Not according to this... It still looks like quoting far more digits than the floating point precision to me. Take this example from today: Sale of loan part 13257442 (new id 13259335) for 101.0101010101010101010100000000000000000000 GBP with a 1% Discount (99.9999999999999999999999000000000000000000 GBP paid) - fee 0 GBP, annualised rate 10, loan: Midlands Trade Finance Provider Loan (104)
I wanted to sell £100 exactly at 1% discount, so someone else gets 101.01010101010101010101 to within the precision of 64 bit floating point (I presume) and this gets converted back to me receiving £99.9999999999999999999999. If you want about 50 digits of accuracy then all intermediate calculations have to be done to that accuracy as well, if you are going to do them as doubles then they shouldn't be displayed with spurious accuracy. But I'm taking your time on some non-urgent matter when you should be on holiday - sorry. We're not using floating point maths anywhere in the trading algorithms - great care is used to avoid this, with the database only using numeric types, numbers being sent too / from the database as text strings, and an arbitrary precision library being used for the non-database based routines. Being on holiday I'm not going to look into the specifics but what is probably happening is that it's trying to buy / sell £100 but when that gets converted into a fraction of the loan to buy that fraction is ever so slightly out. We then multiply the actual fraction back out to get the true amount the buyer should pay (in case the amount requested exceeds the amount for sale or is otherwise truncated). The inaccuracy will be introduced from one of these calculations.
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dead-money
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Post by dead-money on Aug 12, 2020 16:47:22 GMT
Oh dear, I really hope they aren't using Floating Point variables to hold a currency value !!! Not according to this... We're not using floating point maths anywhere in the trading algorithms - great care is used to avoid this, with the database only using numeric types, numbers being sent too / from the database as text strings, and an arbitrary precision library being used for the non-database based routines. Being on holiday I'm not going to look into the specifics but what is probably happening is that it's trying to buy / sell £100 but when that gets converted into a fraction of the loan to buy that fraction is ever so slightly out. We then multiply the actual fraction back out to get the true amount the buyer should pay (in case the amount requested exceeds the amount for sale or is otherwise truncated). The inaccuracy will be introduced from one of these calculations.
OK, that's reassurring, although 2015 is a while back and they've changed the front end if not the back end of the stack since then.
Chris's explanation, reminds me of a bill I once received from BT. three items at £7.99 each, bill total including VAT £24.01 Err, Yeah !
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Post by davee39 on Aug 12, 2020 17:54:41 GMT
Where are all the funds from redeeming capital £8m plus over 5% of retail investors funds and they have redeemed less than 1% quite frankly they are taking the P probably using our capital to prop up their failing model I have only had 1 redemption today and assume that relates to only one loan (with others fo follow?).
If the amount credited today is for all repayments over the last 10 days it is indeed a bit of a p** poor show.
Yesterday cash share of my AA was 9.6%. Today, after the repayment, it stands at 9.2%. There were several separate payments made adding up to around £80/£10000. I had been expecting rather more. The cash level had fallen to as low as 2% in March, and have recently been running at around 6%. We may be due more payments, or possibly there is an expected demand for tranche funding as construction is back underway.
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Post by closetotheedge on Aug 12, 2020 18:08:41 GMT
Do any of you kind people fancy trying to explain in simple terms what is going to happen.
Brief scenario.
I have, for me, some chunky amounts in the 30DAA and the 90DAA. About £160,000 in total.
I don't need it back now, nor for the next couple of years or so BUT I do want it back at some point.
I gave notice on all the amounts back in March just as a precaution so have been getting the odd few hundred paid back into my cash holding account.
If I do nothing and just leave the withdrawal requests to sit there and presumably continue to get the odd few hundred paid back then is that it for the foreseeable future or do AC have a plan with which to get the bulk back to me.
Long term, willing to take a degree of risk of a haircut on it if things go sour but only if there is a mechanism in the background which is planned to allow me to exit at some point in the future without having to then also use the discount facility.
I realise there are no crystal balls around just asking if there is something I have missed.
Thanks for any simply worded explanations.
Rich
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dead-money
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Post by dead-money on Aug 12, 2020 18:34:57 GMT
Do any of you kind people fancy trying to explain in simple terms what is going to happen. Brief scenario. I have, for me, some chunky amounts in the 30DAA and the 90DAA. About £160,000 in total. I don't need it back now, nor for the next couple of years or so BUT I do want it back at some point. I gave notice on all the amounts back in March just as a precaution so have been getting the odd few hundred paid back into my cash holding account. If I do nothing and just leave the withdrawal requests to sit there and presumably continue to get the odd few hundred paid back then is that it for the foreseeable future or do AC have a plan with which to get the bulk back to me. Long term, willing to take a degree of risk of a haircut on it if things go sour but only if there is a mechanism in the background which is planned to allow me to exit at some point in the future without having to then also use the discount facility. I realise there are no crystal balls around just asking if there is something I have missed. Thanks for any simply worded explanations. Rich
Hi, Similar situation and sums here. My approach with the 30D and 90D so far has been sit tight and change nothing, allow the pro-rata distributions to trickle through. When I need the money for a new kitchen or whatever, then is the time to transfer to QAA and offer at an appropriate discount to exit in a timely fashion at that time.
I've seen no reason to believe AC as a company will exit the retail P2P market voluntarily or otherwise. But rates offered might well decline in future months & years, certainly rates on MLA loans seemed to be declining before new lending was put on hold.
The current lack of new loans is a concern, as once existing loans and their tranches have been addressed, whilst repayments might acceralate so will the concentration of toxic loans in the rump of access account holdings. I'm hoping that AC recommences new loan issuance in the near future to mitigate this.
I think we've only seen one CBILS loan replace future tranche funding so the requirement for the Access accounts to fund tranches, which acts as a drag on capital repayments, looks set to continue for some time.
NB My investment in P2P and AC is less than 5% of my net financial worth, I'm also a minority shareholder in AC.
(Disclaimer: I'm not a financial advisor and this is not investment advice)
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Aug 12, 2020 18:41:58 GMT
Do any of you kind people fancy trying to explain in simple terms what is going to happen. Brief scenario. I have, for me, some chunky amounts in the 30DAA and the 90DAA. About £160,000 in total. I don't need it back now, nor for the next couple of years or so BUT I do want it back at some point. I gave notice on all the amounts back in March just as a precaution so have been getting the odd few hundred paid back into my cash holding account. If I do nothing and just leave the withdrawal requests to sit there and presumably continue to get the odd few hundred paid back then is that it for the foreseeable future or do AC have a plan with which to get the bulk back to me. Long term, willing to take a degree of risk of a haircut on it if things go sour but only if there is a mechanism in the background which is planned to allow me to exit at some point in the future without having to then also use the discount facility.I realise there are no crystal balls around just asking if there is something I have missed. Thanks for any simply worded explanations. Rich There must be dozens - maybe even hundreds - of people in your position, Rich. AC could take the above and issue a response to all lenders addressing the main points raised. AC could dedicate an entire Bulletin to it. For my 10¢ worth * ... This: 'Fraid so, in my opinion. Can't see the current situation changing for another 12 months minimum. Really push me and I even go as far as a cautious 2 years. This: As far as I am aware, the plan is the return of 'Normal Market Conditions' - see above. (That's obviously excluding the Marketplace as an AC plan to allow the 'bulk removal; of capital. There could be some 'plan B' scenarios, institutional funding, etc - but I don't see that as a way of allowing bulk removal of Access Account lender funds; and especially not know the Marketplace has been enabled.) This: if by 'long term' you're thinking three years or more, I think you'll be OK. Not saying it won't be necessary to use a discount on the SM to exit in 3-or-more years time, I just don't think AC will have somehow down-graded the absolute value of the Access Account holdings meaning that you may end having to take a hit both ways. * Warning! I may be vastly over-stating the value of my own opinion!  Also, be sure to read my signature... 
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Aug 12, 2020 18:42:36 GMT
Do any of you kind people fancy trying to explain in simple terms what is going to happen. Brief scenario. I have, for me, some chunky amounts in the 30DAA and the 90DAA. About £160,000 in total. I don't need it back now, nor for the next couple of years or so BUT I do want it back at some point. I gave notice on all the amounts back in March just as a precaution so have been getting the odd few hundred paid back into my cash holding account. If I do nothing and just leave the withdrawal requests to sit there and presumably continue to get the odd few hundred paid back then is that it for the foreseeable future or do AC have a plan with which to get the bulk back to me. Long term, willing to take a degree of risk of a haircut on it if things go sour but only if there is a mechanism in the background which is planned to allow me to exit at some point in the future without having to then also use the discount facility. I realise there are no crystal balls around just asking if there is something I have missed. Thanks for any simply worded explanations. Rich I don't think you've missed anything - there aren't any grand plans that have been declared. So, yes, if you keep your withdrawal requests open then you will continue to get the dribble. We have no idea how long this might take. I might speculate that AC are hoping that the existence of the market might be enough to stabilise things. The fact that it is there means that you know you can get out at any time in the future, at an unknown discount of course. In the meantime you continue to get your 4% ish. What matters IMHO is the personal impact of having to take a large haircut on that much money. If it would be seriously damaging, then you might want to consider getting at least some of it out. If there is no special rush, then one option would be to put chunks of it up for sale at modest discounts and sit back and see what happens - it seems likely that the going rate will fluctuate significantly and that you could manage to get out at only a small cost, especially if you compare it to a couple of years' interest. Back to AC's hopes ... I imagine that they would dearly love liquidity to return to the extent that trading comes close to par. This is possible, but I personally wouldn't bet my house (or an equivalent value) on it.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Aug 12, 2020 18:45:43 GMT
Oh dear, I really hope they aren't using Floating Point variables to hold a currency value !!! Not according to this... We're not using floating point maths anywhere in the trading algorithms - great care is used to avoid this, with the database only using numeric types, numbers being sent too / from the database as text strings, and an arbitrary precision library being used for the non-database based routines. Being on holiday I'm not going to look into the specifics but what is probably happening is that it's trying to buy / sell £100 but when that gets converted into a fraction of the loan to buy that fraction is ever so slightly out. We then multiply the actual fraction back out to get the true amount the buyer should pay (in case the amount requested exceeds the amount for sale or is otherwise truncated). The inaccuracy will be introduced from one of these calculations. But is this, at least partially, a new set of code? (ie not a recycling of the MLA marketplace) Maybe a floater slipped through the filters ....  
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Aug 12, 2020 18:53:28 GMT
Hmm, offering to sell £10,000.0000000000 it only gives me a quote for £9,999.99000000 of it, so you do wonder... chris |
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Post by closetotheedge on Aug 12, 2020 19:01:32 GMT
Thanks for the thoughts and comments it is nice to read others thoughts.
Just wanted to be sure I had not missed anything amongst the messages from AC..
I am braced to take a hit at some point just want it to be a small percentage of a haircut not being cut off below the neck.
Rich
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Also, be sure to read my signature... 
