oik
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Post by oik on Mar 19, 2020 12:39:45 GMT
At the risk of repeating what may have already been said, it seems those who requested a withdrawal from either 30 or 90 day accounts may be in for a double (or triple) whammy - even if they put their withdrawal request in well before the coronavirus panic and asked for their money to go into the QAA. It seems that having reached the end of the 30 or 90 day notice period, they'll then need queue to get their money into QAA, and then have to join yet another queue to get their money out of the QAA. Would seem fairer if, having reached the end of the notice period, their funds were transferred on the due date so they could at least be allowed to join the QAA withdrawal queue, if that's what they want.
It's obviously reasonable for there to be a queue but surely not reasonable for there to be a queue to join the queue.
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Post by mpn on Mar 19, 2020 14:39:37 GMT
I agree it doesn't seem fair.
In my case I scheduled a withdrawal from my 90 day account around 5 weeks before the lock down. I was expecting the queue position to be the original request date once the 90 days is up, not sitting behind people that decided to withdraw from the 30 day or QAA much more recently or even the day before.
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Post by Ace on Mar 19, 2020 15:48:29 GMT
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that there is not a double/triple queue. At the end of your notice period (90 days, 30 days, or 0 days in the case of the QAA) you enter the new "withdraw pool" where any cash assigned to the pool is shared out pro-rata between everyone in the pool.
EDIT: AC's definition of pro-rata is that each person in the withdrawal pool receives the same amount each time a payment is made (obviously limited to the total withdrawal amount).
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oik
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Post by oik on Mar 19, 2020 18:13:44 GMT
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that there is not a double/triple queue. At the end of your notice period (90 days, 30 days, or 0 days in the case of the QAA) you enter the new "withdraw pool" where any cash assigned to the pool is shared out pro-rata between everyone in the pool. Thanks, that would make more sense. Has there been any confirmation from Assetz or stuartassetzcapital of that, i.e. after the notice period for a withdrawal to QAA there won't be a queue just to join the queue? I gave notice a month ago to withdraw a part of my investment, £10k, to QAA so I could withdraw from there. It was scheduled to go to QAA on the 18th but hasn't moved.
If it's being queued for withdrawal, which is what I wanted, that's fine but not if it's just queuing to be transferred to QAA where I'll have to join another queue to withdraw.
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Post by Ace on Mar 19, 2020 18:41:49 GMT
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that there is not a double/triple queue. At the end of your notice period (90 days, 30 days, or 0 days in the case of the QAA) you enter the new "withdraw pool" where any cash assigned to the pool is shared out pro-rata between everyone in the pool. Thanks, that would make more sense. Has there been any confirmation from Assetz or stuartassetzcapital of that, i.e. after the notice period for a withdrawal to QAA there won't be a queue just to join the queue? I gave notice a month ago to withdraw a part of my investment, £10k, to QAA so I could withdraw from there. It was scheduled to go to QAA on the 18th but hasn't moved.
If it's being queued for withdrawal, which is what I wanted, that's fine but not if it's just queuing to be transferred to QAA where I'll have to join another queue to withdraw.
It's just my understanding from what I've read on the AC website and various posts from Stuart and Chris. I'm guessing that your £10k will appear in the QAA once they un-pause (expected some time today). You should then be able to request a withdrawal to your cash account. At this point you will be in the "pool" waiting for AC to allocate cash to the pool that will then be shared between all in the pool on a pro-rata basis.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 19, 2020 18:45:39 GMT
Thanks, that would make more sense. Has there been any confirmation from Assetz or stuartassetzcapital of that, i.e. after the notice period for a withdrawal to QAA there won't be a queue just to join the queue? I gave notice a month ago to withdraw a part of my investment, £10k, to QAA so I could withdraw from there. It was scheduled to go to QAA on the 18th but hasn't moved.
If it's being queued for withdrawal, which is what I wanted, that's fine but not if it's just queuing to be transferred to QAA where I'll have to join another queue to withdraw.
It's just my understanding from what I've read on the AC website and various posts from Stuart and Chris. I'm guessing that your £10k will appear in the QAA once they un-pause (expected some time today). You should then be able to request a withdrawal to your cash account. At this point you will be in the "pool" waiting for AC to allocate cash to the pool that will then be shared between all in the pool on a pro-rata basis. I am wondering if "pro-rata" means pound for pound - i.e. if you have £1000 queued and someone else has £100 queued, and £10 is available, you get £5 each - or it is %wise and you get £9 and £1 (approx).
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 19, 2020 18:47:27 GMT
It's just my understanding from what I've read on the AC website and various posts from Stuart and Chris. I'm guessing that your £10k will appear in the QAA once they un-pause (expected some time today). You should then be able to request a withdrawal to your cash account. At this point you will be in the "pool" waiting for AC to allocate cash to the pool that will then be shared between all in the pool on a pro-rata basis. I am wondering if "pro-rata" means pound for pound - i.e. if you have £1000 queued and someone else has £100 queued, and £10 is available, you get £5 each - or it is %wise and you get £9 and £1 (approx). I would hope it was the latter, even if I was the one getting the £1
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 19, 2020 18:51:12 GMT
I am wondering if "pro-rata" means pound for pound - i.e. if you have £1000 queued and someone else has £100 queued, and £10 is available, you get £5 each - or it is %wise and you get £9 and £1 (approx). I would hope it was the latter, even if I was the one getting the £1 it's the former for getting loan parts - if you sell, the exact same amount goes to everyone buying, and they can't have all been asking for the same amount.
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Post by Ace on Mar 19, 2020 19:04:37 GMT
I would hope it was the latter, even if I was the one getting the £1 it's the former for getting loan parts - if you sell, the exact same amount goes to everyone buying, and they can't have all been asking for the same amount. I'm not sure which method they mean. I also don't understand why they haven't said. I'm not even sure which one I prefer, but I agree with IFISAcava that it's likely to be equal amounts each since that's how they allocate loan parts.
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sapphire
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Post by sapphire on Mar 19, 2020 21:25:57 GMT
it's the former for getting loan parts - if you sell, the exact same amount goes to everyone buying, and they can't have all been asking for the same amount. I'm not sure which method they mean. I also don't understand why they haven't said. I'm not even sure which one I prefer, but I agree with IFISAcava that it's likely to be equal amounts each since that's how they allocate loan parts. Today's blog update still doesn't clarify this point! It continues to state "...there will be a pro-rata distribution of cash available for distribution to all Access Account withdrawal queue members." chris ?
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Post by chris on Mar 19, 2020 23:55:31 GMT
I'm not sure which method they mean. I also don't understand why they haven't said. I'm not even sure which one I prefer, but I agree with IFISAcava that it's likely to be equal amounts each since that's how they allocate loan parts. Today's blog update still doesn't clarify this point! It continues to state "...there will be a pro-rata distribution of cash available for distribution to all Access Account withdrawal queue members." chris ? Caught me just as I'm heading to bed, so haven't even checked other threads yet. Will answer any technical questions in the morning. But I can confirm that the distribution is the same as with loan units, so equal to everyone in the queue with any excess beyond what someone is asking for being distributed to everyone else in the queue wanting more.
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evo22
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Post by evo22 on Mar 20, 2020 9:16:36 GMT
Up until now I thought AC have handled this situation very well but how can this be fair? So on each distribution of say £10 per account Investor A with £1000 would get 1% and Investor B with £10000 would get 0.1% How does that square with this statement in their faq The “pool” of uninvested cash in the Access Accounts belongs to all the investors in the account – everyone has the same proportion of their funds allocated within the Access Accounts that is partially held as uninvested cash. It would not be fair to other lenders in the Access Accounts to grant any one person disproportionate access to the uninvested cash so all queue members will be treated equally until further notice - joining the queue today versus tomorrow will not create a significant advantage in the short term as there will be a pro-rata distribution of cash available for distribution to all Access Account withdrawal queue members. Surely in the example above Investor A is getting 10 times what Investor B is getting so they are most definitely getting a disproportionate amount of any distribution. This system worked when we were buying loan parts but then we had a choice. Now we don't! chris |
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Post by chris on Mar 20, 2020 9:25:11 GMT
evo22 - You have to be careful of unintended consequences and people seeking to game the system. If you have a hypothetical investor with £2m in the 30DAA who wants to withdraw £100k you wouldn't want to create a system where it's beneficial for them to list the full £2m for withdrawal so that they receive a larger share of withdrawals only for them to then want to cancel their withdrawal request or move funds back into the access accounts once they'd had their £100k released. A proportional system is open to gaming by those with the deepest pockets, something we're seeking to avoid.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 20, 2020 9:30:35 GMT
chris When do AC expect Access Accounts to start releasing funds? Not that I have much money to invest (with a large chunk held in AA accounts and the rest in MLA), have AC paused new loans coming through - haven't seen any new ones for most of this week?
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evo22
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Post by evo22 on Mar 20, 2020 9:39:49 GMT
chris Surely there is a very easy and much fairer way round this. Put a cap on the allocation per distribution, either in absolute terms or as a percentage of the allocation. So if £1m was to be distributed you could have a maximum allocation of £x or x% of £1m The smaller investor would still likely get a disproportionately higher amount of any distribution but not as bad as I suspect it will be now.
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