|
|
Post by davee39 on Mar 20, 2020 18:48:33 GMT
Do you larger investors know what is happening in the real world?
The entire country is in a state of crisis, food banks are failing (Do you larger investors understand what it is like to need a food bank?, or have you ever met a food bank client?)
Unemployment is growing
People in fragile health are genuinely scared for their lives.
If the larger investors had read the terms and conditions, instead of jumping in for the big interest rate they might be more aware of what they signed up to.
At the moment life is not fair, people dying is not fair, greed at the supermarket is not fair, the very fact that some people can afford large investments in the first place is not fair.
What is fair is that Assetz are doing their best.
So you can't get your money out for a spiffy jump into some other opportunity! Tough!! You were warned very clearly by the headline account details.
I have £50k tied up. Today I got £80 back. I am grateful the system works and that I have a roof over my head and food on the table, many do not and THAT is not fair.
|
|
Mikeme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 428 
Likes: 331
|
Post by Mikeme on Mar 20, 2020 18:53:36 GMT
Well said.
|
|
|
|
Post by Harland Kearney on Mar 20, 2020 18:55:47 GMT
You can now cancel your double/triple withdrawal. A button exists in the *Queued Withdrawals* tab.
|
|
alender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 981
Likes: 683
|
Post by alender on Mar 20, 2020 19:58:44 GMT
Do you larger investors know what is happening in the real world? The entire country is in a state of crisis, food banks are failing (Do you larger investors understand what it is like to need a food bank?, or have you ever met a food bank client?) Unemployment is growing People in fragile health are genuinely scared for their lives. If the larger investors had read the terms and conditions, instead of jumping in for the big interest rate they might be more aware of what they signed up to. At the moment life is not fair, people dying is not fair, greed at the supermarket is not fair, the very fact that some people can afford large investments in the first place is not fair. What is fair is that Assetz are doing their best. So you can't get your money out for a spiffy jump into some other opportunity! Tough!! You were warned very clearly by the headline account details. I have £50k tied up. Today I got £80 back. I am grateful the system works and that I have a roof over my head and food on the table, many do not and THAT is not fair. I think you are making too many assumptions.
Not sure if I meet people from food banks, but when I owned a Retail Fruit and Veg business rather than sell off all the goods cheap at the end of the week I would give some of this to the Kitchen staff on minimum wage to help them out, it also helped with customer relations and I got a lot of takeaways.
Some of this larger investors money could well be going to gardeners, cleaners, cares etc (especially given the average age of investors as they may struggle to do these jobs for themselves) or just spent in the shops, online creating jobs.
A number of the so called larger investors like myself may not be working (job outsourced to India, but a few years off my pension). I have a spread of investments all of which have gone down a lot, income greatly reduced (dividends cancelled etc) and P2P which is locked, I may be fairly well off but I will need this money to survive the rest of my life in reasonable comfort (keeping my house, heating, food, car, perhaps holidays and perhaps eventually care home costs) without turning to the government, there is very little chance of finding work at my age. For the last 6 years of my working life I commuted 3 hours a day and worked over 50 hours a week for 50 + weeks of the year without a single holiday in order so I could retire when my job was outsourced as this was just a mater of time. My plan was always to move from equities to building society, banks and AAA rated bonds as I got older but with around 1% + the tax it was only a mater of time before inflation would eat it away. I am not interested in Buy to let and would rather a young couple bought a house than me renting to them.
Poor health etc, again a number of the so called larger investors are likely to be older so generally in poorer health and much more likely to be badly effected if they get Corona Virus, even if you have private medical insurance you are not covered. I am in the high risk category but I must admit I am lucky enough to be fit and healthy so I do not feel at risk.
Where does it say in the T&Cs that smaller investors would take priority over larger ones.
I will beg to differ that Assetz are doing their best, just their best for some.
For me I would like to have the cash flow to help out my partner more who has been having a hard time (had an operation and other issues), she is professional carer (manger and worker, I went over this in another post) on just over £10 an hour, this is an opportunity I would like to take up. I also rent out a small area to a friend (who runs a small retail business) and his family on below half the current market rent to help them to save up to buy a house, I would like to help them out during this period if it becomes necessary. I am not a good person but like to help out when I can, my partner and friends are good people and help me out and no doubt help me out a lot more when needed so perhaps I am doing this for selfish reasons but I am not looking to put this money on the stock market. Who is to say where the cash to larger investors goes, it could well go to children and grand children to help them out during this difficult time.
Just because you are a small investor in Assetz does not necessarily mean you do not have investments elsewhere I know some small investors in P2P that have several properties and just use P2P to park spare cash.
If AC were means testing (obviously not practical) their investors and paying out on the basis of need I believe you have a point, however this is the job of the government not a financial institution. I tend to believe that anyone who invests in P2P are fairly well off so all should be treated equally, if not this should be clearly stated in the T&Cs. I am not complaining about losing money as I took the risk, I am upset about the differential treatment of investors.
|
|
|
|
Post by davee39 on Mar 20, 2020 20:51:38 GMT
Thanks, I appreciate your comments and understand your position.
There will be many investors in the queue who do not need the cash, but have stampeded to the exit for fear of making losses (Yes, I am looking at myself here).
My main point is that in unprecedented circumstances we cannot expect perfect solutions.
Over the next few weeks we will settle into the drastically changed circumstances and understand how much of normal life can continue, then, perhaps, we will have a better picture of how Assetz (and borrowers) are bearing up, and whether some of the withdrawal requests can be cancelled.
Assetz can of course play their part.
The promo video was a crass mistake - it was badly made, badly presented and a sign of panic, it got peoples backs up.
Talk of negative interest rates to try to stimulate investment was also badly timed.
The current 1% cashback was dead on arrival, it was a mean offer and needs to be rethought. My suggestion (for what it's worth) would be to devise an investment bond (Mini Bond) to raise liquidity and appeal to income seekers.
Also, a big thank you to customer services staff who have born the brunt of queries and complaints, yes, they may have got things wrong but these were fast changing circumstances.
This time we really are 'all in it together' - up to the neck!
|
|
|
|
Post by Harland Kearney on Mar 20, 2020 21:18:02 GMT
Thanks, I appreciate your comments and understand your position. There will be many investors in the queue who do not need the cash, but have stampeded to the exit for fear of making losses (Yes, I am looking at myself here). My main point is that in unprecedented circumstances we cannot expect perfect solutions. Over the next few weeks we will settle into the drastically changed circumstances and understand how much of normal life can continue, then, perhaps, we will have a better picture of how Assetz (and borrowers) are bearing up, and whether some of the withdrawal requests can be cancelled. Assetz can of course play their part. The promo video was a crass mistake - it was badly made, badly presented and a sign of panic, it got peoples backs up. Talk of negative interest rates to try to stimulate investment was also badly timed. The current 1% cashback was dead on arrival, it was a mean offer and needs to be rethought. My suggestion (for what it's worth) would be to devise an investment bond (Mini Bond) to raise liquidity and appeal to income seekers. Also, a big thank you to customer services staff who have born the brunt of queries and complaints, yes, they may have got things wrong but these were fast changing circumstances. This time we really are 'all in it together' - up to the neck!
Time will tell, hopefuly some comms might tell us too 
|
|
|
|
Post by Ace on Mar 20, 2020 21:42:08 GMT
Thanks, I appreciate your comments and understand your position. There will be many investors in the queue who do not need the cash, but have stampeded to the exit for fear of making losses (Yes, I am looking at myself here). My main point is that in unprecedented circumstances we cannot expect perfect solutions. Over the next few weeks we will settle into the drastically changed circumstances and understand how much of normal life can continue, then, perhaps, we will have a better picture of how Assetz (and borrowers) are bearing up, and whether some of the withdrawal requests can be cancelled. Assetz can of course play their part. The promo video was a crass mistake - it was badly made, badly presented and a sign of panic, it got peoples backs up. Talk of negative interest rates to try to stimulate investment was also badly timed. The current 1% cashback was dead on arrival, it was a mean offer and needs to be rethought. My suggestion (for what it's worth) would be to devise an investment bond (Mini Bond) to raise liquidity and appeal to income seekers. Also, a big thank you to customer services staff who have born the brunt of queries and complaints, yes, they may have got things wrong but these were fast changing circumstances. This time we really are 'all in it together' - up to the neck! Can agree with all the points you made here; there are still many unknowns and we'll see how AC play it out. My biggest question is simply, do all the access accounts pool into customer withdrawals from the que pool? Secondly, will pay outs happen automatically daily or is it going to be a when AC decide to throw a payout our way.Time will tell, hopefuly some comms might tell us too There is only one "withdrawal pool". You enter it whenever you attempt to withdraw from your QAA to your cash account, and whenever one of your 30 or 90 day notice periods expires. AC have said "When you receive cash from your withdrawal request from the Access Accounts will depend on cash coming into the Access Accounts from various sources and is not able to be predicted at this stage."
|
|
alender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 981
Likes: 683
|
Post by alender on Mar 20, 2020 23:17:51 GMT
Thanks, I appreciate your comments and understand your position. There will be many investors in the queue who do not need the cash, but have stampeded to the exit for fear of making losses (Yes, I am looking at myself here). My main point is that in unprecedented circumstances we cannot expect perfect solutions. Over the next few weeks we will settle into the drastically changed circumstances and understand how much of normal life can continue, then, perhaps, we will have a better picture of how Assetz (and borrowers) are bearing up, and whether some of the withdrawal requests can be cancelled. Assetz can of course play their part. The promo video was a crass mistake - it was badly made, badly presented and a sign of panic, it got peoples backs up. Talk of negative interest rates to try to stimulate investment was also badly timed. The current 1% cashback was dead on arrival, it was a mean offer and needs to be rethought. My suggestion (for what it's worth) would be to devise an investment bond (Mini Bond) to raise liquidity and appeal to income seekers. Also, a big thank you to customer services staff who have born the brunt of queries and complaints, yes, they may have got things wrong but these were fast changing circumstances. This time we really are 'all in it together' - up to the neck! Thanks for the comments.
My concern is that AC are moralising and taking the view of the Undeserving and the Deserving Lenders without any knowledge about the Lenders except the amount invested with AC.
Another argument is that the higher value lenders are usually older and less likely to be in work, the younger Lenders are more employable will have more time to make up the losses before their income stream is removed due to age, or perhaps AC should just prioritise Older Lenders before Younger ones. Another approach is to reward loyal customers, i.e. the longer you have been with AC the larger % of you funds you can withdraw as those are the ones that have helped most to build AC. Do I believe this, of course not but these arguments also have their moral points and it is not up to AC to moralise. Also I am concerned that if AC upsets a section of investors there is little chance they will support AC and just want to get their money out, if you upset your larger investors during these times you are really asking for trouble.
Just for the record (have mentioned this before) the only withdraw I requested was for my company to pay Salary, expenses and HMRC, I do this every year from one of my investments. I did this from a 30day account around 6th Feb but due to unverified bank account (did not know it was not verified) and the dreaded sweep idle funds setting (that I was not aware of) I am now stuck. I could easily complain that my withdraw is more legitimate that those of people panicking but it would be pointless and again using a moral argument.
As I said on anther thread the video came across like one of these charity appeals, us lender should do the right thing, dig deep and support the unfortunate borrowers.
I hope we are only up to our neck in the **** and rising.
|
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Mar 21, 2020 13:43:48 GMT
evo22 - You have to be careful of unintended consequences and people seeking to game the system. If you have a hypothetical investor with £2m in the 30DAA who wants to withdraw £100k you wouldn't want to create a system where it's beneficial for them to list the full £2m for withdrawal so that they receive a larger share of withdrawals only for them to then want to cancel their withdrawal request or move funds back into the access accounts once they'd had their £100k released. A proportional system is open to gaming by those with the deepest pockets, something we're seeking to avoid. With the alternative, that hypothetical investor had instead previously arranged to have the £2M split between multiple accounts - normal and ISA accounts for self and spouse, and accounts for multiple limited companies they control (and maybe accounts held in the name of other family members for good measure too).
Rather than a single share of each relevant allocation, they get as many shares as the number of accounts they control.
As that already gives a significant benefit over an investor with a single £2M AC portfolio, those wanting to game the system would likely already have set themselves up this way if they so desired.
No one system is fair and unbiased. The AC version of "fair" is biased towards smaller investors and/or those able to control multiple accounts (and especially the very smallest investors who can quickly get their allocation in full), and a "pro-rata" system is biased towards larger investors who get a larger slice of each allocation etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by Harland Kearney on Mar 21, 2020 13:53:28 GMT
Yes, well we have yet to see how allocations are made when loans are repaid in full or partial. I really think AC are still working out the system and yesterday payment was a release of some funds to both test system and release small capital payment to investors. As loans payback, interest is paid monthly (and some of that money is reinvested into the accounts), we will see more liquidity.
Large investors arent' going to see a great deal of capital returned, thrus our interests are really in the platform & the underlying loan book/ pipe line loans.
Personally, at this point I think AC will see it though. It all depends on how they repay back investors from paid loans as this isnt' really well defined yet. (We all hold diffrent amounts of QAA holdings in diffrent loans, from my loan book at least it seems this way, or maybe we don't I have no idea. The QAA was always a system that was swapping around loan parts intra-daily rate before the que)
I for one, I am happy to sit on my hands, earn interest and let AC get to work. Unfontunely I've come to the eventual conclusion that there isnt' anything I'm going to get by wasting time complaining here. I will just let AC get on with their job. Nothing wrong with more interaction here by AC though, I always like direct comms.
|
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Mar 21, 2020 14:08:52 GMT
Thanks, I appreciate your comments and understand your position. There will be many investors in the queue who do not need the cash, but have stampeded to the exit for fear of making losses (Yes, I am looking at myself here). Far from a "stampede for the exit", the invested total in all 3 of the main access accounts has increased since last week. Based on my snapshots today, and at a similar time last week:
QAA: 62.22M => 64.05M 30DAA: 75.00M => 75.06M 90DAA: 74.46M => 74.62M
During the same period the access accounts have increased their exposure in 16 loans totalling an increased investment of over £1.35M, whilst loan part sales and repayments from the Access Accounts have totalled just over £1.48M, releasing a net amount of just over £125k of cash from the net result of new investment and repayments/sales.
Taken together, this means that the available non-invested cash to support new loan drawdowns and investor withdrawals has nearly doubled from £2.35M to £4.53M
Undoubtedly at least part of this needs to be reserved to support additional tranches of existing loans where the terms of the loan require it.
I suspect that the new system will have fully satisfied at least some smaller investor's requested withdrawals in full, and probably nipped the "run on the account" in the bud before we get tedious threads monitoring ever-slower withdrawal times which only serve to encourage even more people to get in the withdrawal queue "while they still can".
If similar arrangements had been made in supermarkets (e.g. some system where rather than just taking as much as they want off the shelves, people submit their orders, and any incoming stock of toilet paper, pasta, etc. gets evenly distributed amongst all those who had outstanding orders) there'd be a lot fewer sensational stories about nurses coming off duty to find that all the shelves have been stripped bare by people taking 10 times as much as they need - the people who tried to order so much might be scaled back to maybe only twice as much as they need...
|
|
alanh
Posts: 556
Likes: 560
|
Post by alanh on Mar 21, 2020 14:27:08 GMT
The account sizes are hardly going to be reducing when everyone is completely locked in. The net outflows are going to be negligible, especially at the current distribution rate. Inflows are also going to be basically zero, so I would think the so called access account sizes are going to remain static for quite some time. It has been discussed elsewhere but it would seem that allowing investors to take ownership of their individual loan allocations within their accounts if they so wish is going to be the only way to move this forward.
|
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Mar 21, 2020 14:34:41 GMT
The account sizes are hardly going to be reducing when everyone is completely locked in. [...] ... and they'd hardly be increasing if "everyone" was trying to withdraw money.
reportedly those who were trying to withdraw a sufficiently large amount got allocated a bit over £40 each yesterday, so the net effect of that if "everyone" was withdrawing would have been a noticeable reduction in the totals, rather than an increase.
|
|
alanh
Posts: 556
Likes: 560
|
Post by alanh on Mar 21, 2020 14:45:43 GMT
"Trying" to withdraw money being the operative word. Let me put it this way. The account balances are not reducing because no one can get their money out. There is a queue which we can't see of people looking to exit, and from the size of yesterdays distribution it is not a small queue.
|
|
|
|
Post by Harland Kearney on Mar 21, 2020 15:10:10 GMT
Reguardless, I'm coming to the conclusion that the que is ultimately for the benefit of the health of the platform, and directly all of our investments. If they allow outflows now (which is impossible in the current situation) would be equal to a bank run, many investors are sitting on their hands, even myself. I'm in the que but ultimately I care more for the health of the platform but don't wish to give up any dribs of capital coming my way. (to help pay for new investments in the stock market) I've not really lost confidence in AC, although I will admit I was "paniced" previously. Overall, our "investments" still exist and AC will continue to tick on until after the crisis in the world right now, returning liquidity eventually. Investments in the access accounts, will continue to repay, earn interest for investors (which some will choose to reinvest), and pipeline will send out new loans to new borrowers. I for one don't have too much of a issue, I just want clear comms from AC, and a regular updates on how loans being repaid will be used in part to pay back investors. My theory is the majority of repayments are ear marked for loans in the pipeline, something that is unavoidble. If AC don't produce new loans, confidence would be entirely lost. RS have curtailed Loan handouts, but lets renember their loans are arguably less secure than those find in the AC loanbook. Secondly, RS seem to be making those exiting happy, but they will never return. They are basically bleeding out slowly, as more and more investors are piling into the exit whilst they can. As long as AC are doing a good job, and are not making charity appeals & simply moving forward. I am more than happy to not wave my arms around in panic... & stay invested. |
|
