ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 1, 2020 13:23:39 GMT
I agree it should have been two votes. The second, regarding the lender fee, should have called out clearly the whats whys whens etc. If AC's business model is currently at risk they should tap their shareholders, then their banks, then the government. Don't forget that AC itself will be able to apply for all sorts of Rishi handouts at the moment. Handouts that I personally can't apply for. If in the last resort they need to tap lenders so that we help ourselves to help protect our capital then we should share in some potential upside (see previous idea about lender fees converting into equity at a down round valuation). As it is, regardless of whether or not the Ts & Cs allow for it, this is clearly a lender shakedown. We may not have any choice, but we do not have to like it. So I voted "agree", but I resent how AC have handled this. Tagging stuartassetzcapital for comment. I don't see anything to support it being a vote on the fee … its not required as the t&cs clearly cover it … references to the fee are merely to explain how it is being paid within the structure of the forebearance.
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picnicman
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Post by picnicman on Apr 1, 2020 13:26:27 GMT
I agree it should have been two votes. The second, regarding the lender fee, should have called out clearly the whats whys whens etc. If AC's business model is currently at risk they should tap their shareholders, then their banks, then the government. Don't forget that AC itself will be able to apply for all sorts of Rishi handouts at the moment. Handouts that I personally can't apply for. If in the last resort they need to tap lenders so that we help ourselves to help protect our capital then we should share in some potential upside (see previous idea about lender fees converting into equity at a down round valuation). As it is, regardless of whether or not the Ts & Cs allow for it, this is clearly a lender shakedown. We may not have any choice, but we do not have to like it. So I voted "agree", but I resent how AC have handled this. Tagging stuartassetzcapital for comment. I don't see anything to support it being a vote on the fee … its not required as the t&cs clearly cover it … references to the fee are merely to explain how it is being paid within the structure of the forebearance. - have you sussed an answer to my question above? Thanks in advance for any light shedding/you able to give your opinion on Cheers P
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 11,549
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 1, 2020 13:28:41 GMT
Unless I have missed it, can anyone explain how this fee will actually be taken from our accounts - asked chat, they cannot advise - best option would be reduced interest paid, but I am sure others will have thought of numerous other ways. Should such fees be refundable from future platform profits/ any financial assistance received from Government? Cheers P AIUI It wont be taken from our accounts, it will be deducted from interest payments made by borrowers (or more correctly from payments made from the sums retained by AC to cover the interest payments) Hopefully the impeding FAQ will be furnished with examples.
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picnicman
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Post by picnicman on Apr 1, 2020 13:31:48 GMT
Unless I have missed it, can anyone explain how this fee will actually be taken from our accounts - asked chat, they cannot advise - best option would be reduced interest paid, but I am sure others will have thought of numerous other ways. Should such fees be refundable from future platform profits/ any financial assistance received from Government? Cheers P AIUI It wont be taken from our accounts, it will be deducted from interest payments made by borrowers (or more correctly from payments made from the sums retained by AC to cover the interest payments) Hopefully the impeding FAQ will be furnished with examples. Thanks ilmoro - thus reducing our interest payments then. Cheers P
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Post by Harland Kearney on Apr 1, 2020 13:33:51 GMT
Unless I have missed it, can anyone explain how this fee will actually be taken from our accounts - asked chat, they cannot advise - best option would be reduced interest paid, but I am sure others will have thought of numerous other ways. Should such fees be refundable from future platform profits/ any financial assistance received from Government? Cheers P AIUI It wont be taken from our accounts, it will be deducted from interest payments made by borrowers (or more correctly from payments made from the sums retained by AC to cover the interest payments) Hopefully the impeding FAQ will be furnished with examples. Did they confirm it comes out of interest somewhere? It really should be designed that way, will make a tax a nightmare otherwise. Most lenders would be charged more than 0.9 as you have to include tax in that. (not their issue I know, but still...)
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 1, 2020 13:34:42 GMT
I don't see anything to support it being a vote on the fee … its not required as the t&cs clearly cover it … references to the fee are merely to explain how it is being paid within the structure of the forebearance. I don't disagree with you, which isn't the same as saying that I think it is correct or appropriate behaviour on AC's part.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Apr 1, 2020 13:39:28 GMT
AIUI It wont be taken from our accounts, it will be deducted from interest payments made by borrowers (or more correctly from payments made from the sums retained by AC to cover the interest payments) Hopefully the impeding FAQ will be furnished with examples. Did they confirm it comes out of interest somewhere? It really should be designed that way, will make a tax a nightmare otherwise. Most lenders would be charged more than 0.9 as you have to include tax in that. (not their issue I know, but still...) In the past most lender platform fees were not tax deductible. Most platforms changed them to borrower fees to stop lenders getting caught by having to pay tax before the fees were deducted, maybe AC have got around this by calling it a 'membership' fee? Who knows.
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Post by Harland Kearney on Apr 1, 2020 13:40:40 GMT
Did they confirm it comes out of interest somewhere? It really should be designed that way, will make a tax a nightmare otherwise. Most lenders would be charged more than 0.9 as you have to include tax in that. (not their issue I know, but still...) In the past most lender platform fees were not tax deductible. Most platforms changed them to borrower fees to stop lenders getting caught by having to pay tax before the fees were deducted, maybe AC have got around this by calling it a 'membership' fee? Who knows. If its deducted from our interest before it hits our account statements, it in effect be non-taxble. Unsure how they are handling this. Honestly, its the least of my concerns for AC right now.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 1, 2020 13:57:46 GMT
valueinvestor123 Not sure where you get massive spreads from - about 1-3% from a quick sample, OC 1-4% (cant see what other income OC has from fees as not as transparent as AC)
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Post by valueinvestor123 on Apr 1, 2020 14:31:55 GMT
valueinvestor123 Not sure where you get massive spreads from - about 1-3% from a quick sample, OC 1-4% (cant see what other income OC has from fees as not as transparent as AC) Sorry. I meant the spread between the black box accounts investing in those same loans promising some form of liquidity and the rate AC are charging the borrowers. It was my contention that QAA is A LOT more risky than it appears to be. Never mind. I have to try and stop ranting...sorry.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Apr 1, 2020 14:40:22 GMT
Example fee info from AC website, in this example from the QAA.
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Assetz Capital Fees charged to borrowers
There are no formal upper or lower limits to the fees Assetz Capital charges to borrowers for arranging and managing a loan, but the current range of fees at orgination for different fee types are shown here. Assetz Capital may earn additional monitoring fees if the loan defaults.
Arrangement fee (net of broker fees) - % of loan facility Lower 0% Upper 7.5%
Monitoring fees paid to Assetz Capital - % per annum based on loan outstanding Lower 0% Upper 5.5%
Exit fees - % of loan facility Lower 0% Upper 2%
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jlend
Member of DD Central
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Post by jlend on Apr 1, 2020 14:42:47 GMT
Example fee info from AC website, in this example from the QAA. www.assetzcapital.co.uk/invest/our-accounts/quick-access-account/key-account-information--- Assetz Capital Fees charged to borrowers There are no formal upper or lower limits to the fees Assetz Capital charges to borrowers for arranging and managing a loan, but the current range of fees at orgination for different fee types are shown here. Assetz Capital may earn additional monitoring fees if the loan defaults. Arrangement fee (net of broker fees) - % of loan facility Lower 0% Upper 7.5% Monitoring fees paid to Assetz Capital - % per annum based on loan outstanding Lower 0% Upper 5.5% Exit fees - % of loan facility Lower 0% Upper 2% |
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mark
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Post by mark on Apr 1, 2020 15:02:11 GMT
If all goes as intended we will continue to recieve some return net of this fee and some return of capital (as things like completed projects gradually repay)
(What government money (if any) can AC access does anyone know?)
Read the ' some good news ' thread . This has some detail on possible government funding.
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Post by garreh on Apr 1, 2020 15:18:38 GMT
0.9% is nothing [...] I'd be more curious to know why they have not simply taken the income stream from elsewhere? They are now starting to charge borrowers 0.25% monthly fee as well (as compared to lenders 0.075% fee), so lenders have actually got the better end of the stick. As you mentioned in a previous comment, the moaning from lenders on the forum is going to be unbearable over the next few weeks. I am actually concerned that AC have opened up this forberance vote immediately after announcing the lender fees because people will just vote for something out of spite even if it's against their long term interests. The results of the poll will be more of a collective moan from lenders rather than voting on the actual topic itself - not to mention it's rather long-winded and many will likely pick any option just to get to their dashboard. Let's hope AC don't read too much into the results of the poll and instead use their expertise to make informed decisions in our best interests.
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mark
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Post by mark on Apr 1, 2020 16:26:50 GMT
I’ve got just under £10k in the QAA. To be brutally honest, and given the awfulness of the current financial situation many people are in or are expecting to be in very soon, it’s clear that someone with £500 in AC is more likely to have a desperate need for it than I or someone with £200k in there. So, AC’s current mechanism is unfair but more compassionate.
a longer term positive outcome for all of us.Paul123 and Alibaba. Respect to you guys for your compassionate approach to others. I am in full agreememt. Concern for others in a less fortunate position, financial or otherwise, will see us through this and the wider health crisis.
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