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Post by lynnanthony on Nov 27, 2014 5:44:27 GMT
Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves, as my Granny used to say. Apologies if this has been commented on elsewhere; I read most of the posts here and haven’t noted it and I just can’t bring myself to plough through the hundreds of pages of comments about the new website here to check. It seems very odd the way pennies don’t match up. Is it really “rounding errors”? For instance: Loan 89 just paid me back 89p principal. The system then (as instructed) bought a little bit to top me back up to my original holding; but that cost 90p. My holding in loan 89 was £1000 before and is £1000 now. Where did that penny go? Another for instance: I track everything on a spreadsheet; I know my income since I started exactly. I also know exactly how much I have put in. Amount put in plus income should equal “Total Investment” on the dashboard of the MLIA. And so it does – give or take a few pennies. And the discrepancy varies; I might receive say £9.16 interest but my “Total Investment” on the dashboard will increase by £9.17. Or £9.15. I’d be much happier if it matched exactly. To keep my spreadsheet matching the dashboard I have had to introduce an adjustment of a few pence, and alter it to suit. 4p adjustment today. Am I being too  in wanting the pennies to match up? |
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Post by batchoy on Nov 27, 2014 7:18:11 GMT
The problem with the pennies on AC has been exacerbated by the October update and the move to the shrapnelising of loan parts so that deals, repayments and interest payments are coming through in sub-penny amounts. On the screen at least these numbers are then rounded down to two decimal places meaning that everything is understated and in a number of cases stated as a value of £0.00. Additionally there appears to be a further error on the display provision fund premiums in the GEIA which means that after rounding down they are a further penny short. As a result the Dashboard as displayed will potentially not balance.
For more accurate figures you either need to hover over the screen figures and note down the popout figures (if your browser supports them) which are to up to 20 decimal places or download the data from the site. Though having said that there is a major flaw in the statements, which is subject to a formal complaint and which will go to the ombudsman/FCA if AC are not forthcoming with at least a response by Tuesday (27th Nov), whereby if you have your MLIA set to withdraw repayments and interest, transactions which should be on the MLIA statement appear in CA statement thus rendering them impossible to balance without significant manipulation of the data.
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mikeb
Posts: 1,072 
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Post by mikeb on Nov 27, 2014 9:36:32 GMT
I read most of the posts here and haven’t noted it and I just can’t bring myself to plough through the hundreds of pages of comments about the new website here to check. Am I being too in wanting the pennies to match up? You can't spell "analyze" without ... It probably should balance better, and other P2P sites manage this in a way that doesn't make any underlying rounding quite so apparent. Most banks/building societies/bills/utilities also manage to do this. The problem here is that we are dealing with large numbers of very small transactions, and all those rounding errors suddenly start to mount up. I too have a spreadsheet, and a "corrections" area with an excuse reason next to any tweaks. I'm more interested in sorting out the calculation/display errors on interest, because those are a far bigger error than the various roundings.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Nov 27, 2014 9:38:38 GMT
The problem with the pennies on AC has been exacerbated by the October update and the move to the shrapnelising of loan parts so that deals, repayments and interest payments are coming through in sub-penny amounts. On the screen at least these numbers are then rounded down to two decimal places meaning that everything is understated and in a number of cases stated as a value of £0.00. Additionally there appears to be a further error on the display provision fund premiums in the GEIA which means that after rounding down they are a further penny short. As a result the Dashboard as displayed will potentially not balance. For more accurate figures you either need to hover over the screen figures and note down the popout figures (if your browser supports them) which are to up to 20 decimal places or download the data from the site. Though having said that there is a major flaw in the statements, which is subject to a formal complaint and which will go to the ombudsman/FCA if AC are not forthcoming with at least a response by Tuesday (27 th Nov), whereby if you have your MLIA set to withdraw repayments and interest, transactions which should be on the MLIA statement appear in CA statement thus rendering them impossible to balance without significant manipulation of the data. You mention a formal complaint Would that stop/deter AC from making posts on the forum til that is sorted? As it's been a week since Chris said anything here, tho' AH said something more recently.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Nov 27, 2014 9:42:11 GMT
It is alright to say look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves but frankly I am getting seriously worried about the thousands of pounds I have tied up in a number of AC loans right now! My finger is now well and truly poised over the "sell" button.
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pikestaff
Member of DD Central
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Post by pikestaff on Nov 27, 2014 9:53:02 GMT
...Though having said that there is a major flaw in the statements, which is subject to a formal complaint and which will go to the ombudsman/FCA if AC are not forthcoming with at least a response by Tuesday (27 th Nov), whereby if you have your MLIA set to withdraw repayments and interest, transactions which should be on the MLIA statement appear in CA statement thus rendering them impossible to balance without significant manipulation of the data. Hmmm. As far as I can tell from the forum you are the only person who is wound up about this. I can think of much worse things on many platforms. I do hope that this is not the reason for Chris's radio silence for the last week.
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Post by batchoy on Nov 27, 2014 10:56:06 GMT
...Though having said that there is a major flaw in the statements, which is subject to a formal complaint and which will go to the ombudsman/FCA if AC are not forthcoming with at least a response by Tuesday (27 th Nov), whereby if you have your MLIA set to withdraw repayments and interest, transactions which should be on the MLIA statement appear in CA statement thus rendering them impossible to balance without significant manipulation of the data. Hmmm. As far as I can tell from the forum you are the only person who is wound up about this. I can think of much worse things on many platforms. I do hope that this is not the reason for Chris's radio silence for the last week. Maybe I'm the only one with their MLIA set to withdraw or the only one that reconciles their statements with their accounting system and is annoyed that the statements don't adhere to basic accounting norms, but that aside the complaint was wide ranging and covered most of the current fundamental issues with the platform, most of which haven't been properly addressed in the intervening period, as opposed to the peripheral niceties which have and some of actions AC took as part of the upgrade. And yes one of the recommendations was that AC postings here be reigned in and the acknowledgement of issues, times scales for fixing and notification of fix implementation be posted on the AC platform in a centralised manner where it would be available to all AC investors not just those that are members of this forum and didn't require the reading of numerous and sometimes unrelated threads to see what was and potentially what was not happening.
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sand2880
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Post by sand2880 on Nov 27, 2014 10:56:47 GMT
I understand batchboy's concerns. Having to complete company accounts and personal tax returns each year, accurate statements make the process easy and quick. What I don't want is to have my own spreadsheet to explain to my accountant why the balances differ from the transactions report by the investment provider and spend extra time on working out why they don't match.
I've had serious problems with other platforms in reporting my companies income and had to manually work through each transaction to satisfy my accountant to sign off my financial accounts. I'm winding these down and hoped AZ would offer a simpler solution.
HMRC would want to see what I have done to ensure my accounts/tax return are accurate and if that required a complaint to FOS to show I have taken reasonable steps to acquire the correct information, I would not have no hesitation.
AZ are the professionals and are required to provide accurate information to their retails customers.
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Post by batchoy on Nov 27, 2014 11:55:40 GMT
I understand batchboy's concerns. Having to complete company accounts and personal tax returns each year, accurate statements make the process easy and quick. What I don't want is to have my own spreadsheet to explain to my accountant why the balances differ from the transactions report by the investment provider and spend extra time on working out why they don't match. I've had serious problems with other platforms in reporting my companies income and had to manually work through each transaction to satisfy my accountant to sign off my financial accounts. I'm winding these down and hoped AZ would offer a simpler solution. HMRC would want to see what I have done to ensure my accounts/tax return are accurate and if that required a complaint to FOS to show I have taken reasonable steps to acquire the correct information, I would not have no hesitation. AZ are the professionals and are required to provide accurate information to their retails customers. To echo sand2880 and one of the reasons why I'm 'wound up' about the statements is that having seen the hoops that HMRC make people jump through and the level of information they want, not just tax statements but the transaction statements that go behind them, when they do a random and fine tooth comb investigation of someone's tax affairs, I don't want to be in the situation of having to explain why my accounts don't match the statements provided by AC and why AC's statements don't balance.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
Posts: 902
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Post by merlin on Nov 27, 2014 16:24:46 GMT
I understand batchboy's concerns. Having to complete company accounts and personal tax returns each year, accurate statements make the process easy and quick. What I don't want is to have my own spreadsheet to explain to my accountant why the balances differ from the transactions report by the investment provider and spend extra time on working out why they don't match. I've had serious problems with other platforms in reporting my companies income and had to manually work through each transaction to satisfy my accountant to sign off my financial accounts. I'm winding these down and hoped AZ would offer a simpler solution. HMRC would want to see what I have done to ensure my accounts/tax return are accurate and if that required a complaint to FOS to show I have taken reasonable steps to acquire the correct information, I would not have no hesitation. AZ are the professionals and are required to provide accurate information to their retails customers. To echo sand2880 and one of the reasons why I'm 'wound up' about the statements is that having seen the hoops that HMRC make people jump through and the level of information they want, not just tax statements but the transaction statements that go behind them, when they do a random and fine tooth comb investigation of someone's tax affairs, I don't want to be in the situation of having to explain why my accounts don't match the statements provided by AC and why AC's statements don't balance. Batchboy I have just joined the party and sold of some of my holding, now heading towards four figures fast!. I had already started to reduce my holding by nearly a third. I will now cash in the rest over the coming week if there are buyers out there some however will stick as they are already in trouble FF to name one and other on the point of default loans.
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agent69
Member of DD Central
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Post by agent69 on Nov 27, 2014 16:54:18 GMT
Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves, Whoever said this first (probably not your Granny) was a fool. Don't waste your time on the pennies, you need to concentrate on the bigger picture.
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Post by marek63 on Nov 27, 2014 17:50:47 GMT
Fascinated whether anyone has suffered actual financial damage here, as against annoyance and frustration (which can be found dealing with any banking institution or consumer facing business). There seems to be a lot of calculation, but has anyone actually lost money? Or more/less than the price of a few stamps? AFAIK FCA complaints are based on real financial damage, not service levels.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
Posts: 902
Likes: 302
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Post by merlin on Nov 27, 2014 18:03:50 GMT
Fascinated whether anyone has suffered actual financial damage here, as against annoyance and frustration (which can be found dealing with any banking institution or consumer facing business). There seems to be a lot of calculation, but has anyone actually lost money? Or more/less than the price of a few stamps? AFAIK FCA complaints are based on real financial damage, not service levels. In my view the way the new system has been implemented/managed and the confusion that it has caused and continues to cause is far worse than any other financial institution that I know of. Despite what AH has said IMHO the AC traffic lights are currently stuck on amber and as far as I am concerned I am not going to wait and find out whether they will eventually go to Red or Green.
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Post by marek63 on Nov 27, 2014 18:16:27 GMT
Fascinated whether anyone has suffered actual financial damage here, as against annoyance and frustration (which can be found dealing with any banking institution or consumer facing business). There seems to be a lot of calculation, but has anyone actually lost money? Or more/less than the price of a few stamps? AFAIK FCA complaints are based on real financial damage, not service levels. In my view the way the new system has been implemented/managed and the confusion that it has caused and continues to cause is far worse than any other financial institution that I know of. Despite what AH has said IMHO the AC traffic lights are currently stuck on amber and as far as I am concerned I am not going to wait and find out whether they will eventually go to Red or Green. Agree they could do a tighter job on systems change, but given that RBS took down half of UK cash machine for 2-4 days and that the BOE CHAPS system failed completely last month we know that banking IT can be a pain. I remain happy that they will sort out the technical issues and that the underlying business and people are solid.
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surby
Minor shareholder in Assetz Capital
Posts: 32
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Post by surby on Nov 27, 2014 18:22:46 GMT
To echo sand2880 and one of the reasons why I'm 'wound up' about the statements is that having seen the hoops that HMRC make people jump through and the level of information they want, not just tax statements but the transaction statements that go behind them, when they do a random and fine tooth comb investigation of someone's tax affairs, I don't want to be in the situation of having to explain why my accounts don't match the statements provided by AC and why AC's statements don't balance. Batchboy I have just joined the party and sold of some of my holding, now heading towards four figures fast!. I had already started to reduce my holding by nearly a third. I will now cash in the rest over the coming week if there are buyers out there some however will stick as they are already in trouble FF to name one and other on the point of default loans. I used to monitor everything, but now I've reconfigured my spreadsheets to track my total holdings rather than every cash movement. I plan to use the AC statements for my tax return in the same way as I use statements from other financial service providers. If HMRC has any questions about accuracy, they can put them to the providers. I'm still adding to my holdings in selected older loans when I can get them.
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in wanting the pennies to match up?
