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Post by Ace on Jul 4, 2023 13:32:21 GMT
OK. My account updated this morning, on the 2nd working day of the month as usual. 2 * £100, 1 ^ £50, and 1 * £25 for me. 1^50 is still 1..... So it is. Shame I didn't get 2, it would have been the biggest prize in any competition ever.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jul 4, 2023 14:02:40 GMT
So it is. Shame I didn't get 2, it would have been the biggest prize in any competition ever. The parable of the wise ruler, the servant, the chessboard, and the ruler's stores of rice....
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agent69
Member of DD Central
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Post by agent69 on Jul 4, 2023 18:46:00 GMT
Getting away from rice, and back on topic.
Plodding along at £125 this month
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Jul 13, 2023 7:37:25 GMT
Premium bond prizes have always arrived 5 working days after the draw date for me in my bank account so for this month the draw was Monday 3rd and payment day was Monday 10th. I won £100 which was duly paid (and matched my declared winnings on NS&I) on Monday. Today however, I received an additional £25 that is not declared on NS&I and also doesn't correspond to the expected payment date. I'm assuming it is a prize because the reference number is similar to that associated with prizes e.g starts PBZ. It is not a duplicate payment as my £100 consisted of 1x£100. Has anyone else ever encountered anything like this and/or has an explanation for what may have occurred here?
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Post by mostlywrong on Jul 13, 2023 14:16:50 GMT
Premium bond prizes have always arrived 5 working days after the draw date for me in my bank account so for this month the draw was Monday 3rd and payment day was Monday 10th. I won £100 which was duly paid (and matched my declared winnings on NS&I) on Monday. Today however, I received an additional £25 that is not declared on NS&I and also doesn't correspond to the expected payment date. I'm assuming it is a prize because the reference number is similar to that associated with prizes e.g starts PBZ. It is not a duplicate payment as my £100 consisted of 1x£100. Has anyone else ever encountered anything like this and/or has an explanation for what may have occurred here? The original winner of that prize has died, probate has been granted and the executor has just claimed the big pot for the estate.
BUT probate has taken more than 12 months to obtain and any prizes paid out more than 12 months after the death of the bond holder are NOT valid.
NS&I claws back the prize (s) from the big pot and pays them to the next winner on the list for whichever month that prize was awarded.
The elapsed time could be considerable!
MW
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Jul 13, 2023 15:44:54 GMT
The original winner of that prize has died, probate has been granted and the executor has just claimed the big pot for the estate.
BUT probate has taken more than 12 months to obtain and any prizes paid out more than 12 months after the death of the bond holder are NOT valid.
NS&I claws back the prize (s) from the big pot and pays them to the next winner on the list for whichever month that prize was awarded.
The elapsed time could be considerable!
MW
Is this what you know to be the case should the above situation arise or is it just a guess? I am aware of the 12 month rule for premium bond holdings for deceased persons but presumably even if probate took > 1 year to resolve, the winnings are still legitimately part of the estate. Presumably if this is the case, I should be able to find somewhere in my history a month where my declared winnings are £25 greater than what I received in that month. I will see if I can check.
Edit:
Just checked and I appear to have an extra £25 declared for Nov 2021 i.e. £25 more than was paid to me that month so it looks as though you are correct.
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Post by mostlywrong on Jul 13, 2023 17:19:31 GMT
The original winner of that prize has died, probate has been granted and the executor has just claimed the big pot for the estate.
BUT probate has taken more than 12 months to obtain and any prizes paid out more than 12 months after the death of the bond holder are NOT valid.
NS&I claws back the prize (s) from the big pot and pays them to the next winner on the list for whichever month that prize was awarded.
The elapsed time could be considerable!
MW
Is this what you know to be the case should the above situation arise or is it just a guess? I am aware of the 12 month rule for premium bond holdings for deceased persons but presumably even if probate took > 1 year to resolve, the winnings are still legitimately part of the estate. Presumably if this is the case, I should be able to find somewhere in my history a month where my declared winnings are £25 greater than what I received in that month. I will see if I can check.
Edit:
Just checked and I appear to have an extra £25 declared for Nov 2021 i.e. £25 more than was paid to me that month so it looks as though you are correct.
I have heard of this happening to a friend's parent. And, like you, I have been the lucky recipient of a late payment.
And the terms and conditions are quite clear; your holding is ineligible for any prizes that you might win 12 months after your death.
For most people, "losing" £50 worth of prizes from a £20,000 pot will not be noticeable.
But what then happens when a £100 pot wins £100k after the 12 months deadline?
Just asking, like, for a friend...
MW
PS. I probably already know the answer. The executor has to stump up.
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Post by mostlywrong on Jul 13, 2023 17:23:02 GMT
Thinking this through...
Most estates are wrapped up within 12 months and the NS&I holdings are usually quickly cashed in because they can be used to pay any tax and interest.
However, we are living in interesting times and maybe your particular case shows that 18 months to obtain probate is more typical!
MW
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Jul 13, 2023 17:46:55 GMT
If the prize is no longer eligible to the original recipient after 12 months, why has it taken 20 months for me to receive it. 
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Post by mostlywrong on Jul 13, 2023 18:21:33 GMT
If the prize is no longer eligible to the original recipient after 12 months, why has it taken 20 months for me to receive it.
Because NS&I did not know that the winner had died.
What should happen is that the executor should notify NS&I of the holder's demise.
If that does not happen, how can NS&I tell?
A few years ago, my godfather died. I regularly visited my godmother, sorted out various bits and pieces for her, and helped her when she needed it.
What I failed to realise was that she had performed the bare minimum of tasks that the state required after someone's death.
When my godmother subsequently died, some 3 years later, we found a drawer full of uncashed cheques and premium bonds (including the reminders).
I was not involved in the administration of the estate(s) as I was only a godson but it was a mess.
No will for either of them which meant two administrations.
The point I am trying to make is that NS&I is working in arrears - it only knows that someone has died once the executor tells them and that could be a long time afterwards.
MW
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Post by mostlywrong on Jul 13, 2023 18:25:32 GMT
And whilst I still receive cheques from NS&I, and they remind me if the cheque has not been cashed within 6 months, a lot of people have their winnings paid straight into their bank account.
No need for any visit to the bank...
MW
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Jul 16, 2023 7:56:53 GMT
The point I am trying to make is that NS&I is working in arrears - it only knows that someone has died once the executor tells them and that could be a long time afterwards.
MW
This is an interesting point.
When my OH's dad died, she cashed in her mothers bonds, who had died some 15 years earlier (her father had not done this) . Had she won a prize a month after dying, that payment would have been made to a holder 15 years after the draw occurred.
This begs the question of what happens if the next person on the list has died or cashed in in the meantime. Presumably then they must also forfeit the prize.
If that is the case it would actually mean that longer held bonds have a greater chance of winning a prize than newer bonds purely down to the fact that any old unpaid bonds would have an increasingly smaller number of eligible bonds to make that payment to.
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Post by mostlywrong on Jul 16, 2023 11:24:21 GMT
The point I am trying to make is that NS&I is working in arrears - it only knows that someone has died once the executor tells them and that could be a long time afterwards.
MW
This is an interesting point.
When my OH's dad died, she cashed in her mothers bonds, who had died some 15 years earlier (her father had not done this) . Had she won a prize a month after dying, that payment would have been made to a holder 15 years after the draw occurred.
This begs the question of what happens if the next person on the list has died or cashed in in the meantime. Presumably then they must also forfeit the prize.
If that is the case it would actually mean that longer held bonds have a greater chance of winning a prize than newer bonds purely down to the fact that any old unpaid bonds would have an increasingly smaller number of eligible bonds to make that payment to.
I am not certain that I understand the point you are making. A quick scan of one winning bond number shows that it has a number consisting of NNNAANNNNNN where A = alphabet and N = a number. Stitch that together and there are bonds to the tune of: 10*10*10*26*26*26*10*10*10*10*10*10. In scientific terms: 1.7576E+13. In human terms: 17.576 quadrillion. Or each member of the population of the UK could hold 270,000 bonds each. That isn't going to happen so this numbering system is probably good for a century. My understanding is that a bond number, once sold to the public, is used for x years and is then retired, either by encashment or by the holder's death. ERNIE, in its latest iteration, generates a large excess of winning numbers and then checks to see whether those bonds have been retired or are ineligible because they have not yet been sold to the public. As ERNIE has been doing that since the 1960s, a large number of bonds will have been retired. Those winning numbers are dropped and ERNIE spits out a list of winning bonds. Each bond number in the sequence has exactly the same chance of winning in each month's drawer. And has always had that chance since inception. When you buy a bond number, that number might have already won a prize (which went straight to the next bond on the list). When you die, your bond number will carry on winning prizes (hah!) but the number has been retired so the prize goes to the next bond on the list. I understand that ERNIE also keeps a list of bonds that have won but where the cheque has been returned "not known at this address" or has not been cashed. Until the holder appears, that spare cash is a nice little earner for the Treasury. Somewhere in the bowels of the computer, there will also be a list of bonds that were purchased in the 1960-1990s but that have not been "digitised". Someone, somewhere, will have bought £10 of bonds in 1969, put them in a drawer and forgotten about them. Several moves (I reckon that I changed address 17 times during my working career) and lots of drawers later, ERNIE will not know who they are. Until they die, and the executor tidies up the estate, which is where we came in... MW
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jul 16, 2023 14:54:38 GMT
Youngest once won a basic prize because ,I quote: 'the previous owner of the bond was not able to receive the payment' . Seemed very strange ,but it was £25.00 and welcome. Maybe a reissued bond number from a 'deceased person'.
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Jul 17, 2023 6:03:04 GMT
I am not certain that I understand the point you are making. The point I was making was that if you hold a bond that is say 15 years old, a higher proportion of other entrants to that draw 15 years ago will be in the situation of unclaimed and deceased than those of say 1 month ago. Add to that others that have cashed in in the meantime who would not be on the list to claim any retrospective payouts and it means that the 15 year old bond will have a greater likelihood of such a payout.
Taking my situation of the mother in law dying 15 years before the bond was cashed in. If she had won a prize the month after dying which went unclaimed, that couldn't have been reallocated until 15 years later. By that time the next person on the backup list may have died and number 3 may have cashed in so the prize goes to number 4 on the list. Had the prize been won 1 month before cashing in, the likelihood of the payment getting to number 4 on the list is almost 0 so older bonds must have a greater probability of these payouts purely on the basis that a greater proportion of entrants to older draws are no longer eligible for prizes from that draw for whatever reason.
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