cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 20, 2020 11:53:21 GMT
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 20, 2020 12:57:20 GMT
It is a % based recovery fee, 3% to Lendy for managing the recoveries on behalf of SSSH. RSM don't take any fees from investors, they take their fees from Lendy. As Ive said previously, its Lendy creditors who will be hit because much of the work relates to the winding up of the loan book etc which is of no benefit to them but involves much of the expense. Investors should be focussed on how much is recovered and how much of that goes to the individual IP conducting the recovery. Then how much of that goes to Lendy via the waterfall. RSM fees are largely a sideshow for anyone except the model 1 investors. The extension will to some degree relate to the fact that some loans may not be fully realised in a shorter timescale plus no doubt time allowance for protracted court actions
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 20, 2020 14:18:36 GMT
Aren't adminstrator fees removed from the recovery?
I saw many loans where the return were eating by 30-40% from administration costs..
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 20, 2020 14:32:10 GMT
Aren't adminstrator fees removed from the recovery? I saw many loans where the return were eating by 30-40% from administration costs.. Third party costs are deducted ie the fees & costs of the administrator/reciever actually undertaking the recovery, plus any costs incurred by Lendy/SSSH relating to the recovery ie legal costs, plus Lendy 3% (all if applicable) & yes could amount to a significant sum for a protracted or complicated process. This gives the net recovery which is then distributed under the dividend distribution of the waterfall to Lendy & investors. There are no fees deducted to pay RSM as administrators of Lendy.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 21, 2020 20:35:06 GMT
Aren't adminstrator fees removed from the recovery? I saw many loans where the return were eating by 30-40% from administration costs.. Third party costs are deducted ie the fees & costs of the administrator/reciever actually undertaking the recovery, plus any costs incurred by Lendy/SSSH relating to the recovery ie legal costs, plus Lendy 3% (all if applicable) & yes could amount to a significant sum for a protracted or complicated process. This gives the net recovery which is then distributed under the dividend distribution of the waterfall to Lendy & investors. There are no fees deducted to pay RSM as administrators of Lendy. When you say no fee deducted to pay RSM... then who do pay their £400-1000/h bill topping to million/year?
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Jun 21, 2020 21:11:27 GMT
Third party costs are deducted ie the fees & costs of the administrator/reciever actually undertaking the recovery, plus any costs incurred by Lendy/SSSH relating to the recovery ie legal costs, plus Lendy 3% (all if applicable) & yes could amount to a significant sum for a protracted or complicated process. This gives the net recovery which is then distributed under the dividend distribution of the waterfall to Lendy & investors. There are no fees deducted to pay RSM as administrators of Lendy. When you say no fee deducted to pay RSM... then who do pay their £400-1000/h bill topping to million/year? , I can understand why it seems confusing and you're right to ask questions in those circumstances. You want info, and I'm sure you'd like it to be factually correct. Right? So, in that spirit, when posting ' facts and figures' please make an effort to ensure they're correct. There's plenty of info on the Administrators dedicated portal as well as on Lendy's site as to how much the JA are charging. From the latest statement: Hourly charge out rates:
Rates at commencement £ Current rates £
Partner 625 625
Dirs / Asst Dirs 450 to 575 450 to 575
Manager 280 to 345 280 to 345
Asst Managers 210 to 290 210 to 290
Administrators 105 to 210 105 to 210
Support staff 90 to 190 90 to 190The average blended rate over c. £1m worth of JA effort is £396.27 + VAT; or £480 in round figures. Don't mean to snipe, but already enough mis-information being circulated, which just increases the fear / uncertainty / doubt, without it being added to unnecessarily. 
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Post by rooster on Jun 21, 2020 21:15:16 GMT
Third party costs are deducted ie the fees & costs of the administrator/reciever actually undertaking the recovery, plus any costs incurred by Lendy/SSSH relating to the recovery ie legal costs, plus Lendy 3% (all if applicable) & yes could amount to a significant sum for a protracted or complicated process. This gives the net recovery which is then distributed under the dividend distribution of the waterfall to Lendy & investors. There are no fees deducted to pay RSM as administrators of Lendy. When you say no fee deducted to pay RSM... then who do pay their £400-1000/h bill topping to million/year? As ilmoro said in his previous post: " they take their fees from Lendy. As Ive said previously, its Lendy creditors who will be hit". Creditors include 'Model 1 terms' lenders, not 'Model 2 terms' lenders.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 21, 2020 21:16:43 GMT
When you say no fee deducted to pay RSM... then who do pay their £400-1000/h bill topping to million/year? , I can understand why it seems confusing and you're right to ask questions in those circumstances. You want info, and I'm sure you'd like it to be factually correct. Right? So, in that spirit, when posting ' facts and figures' please make an effort to ensure they're correct. There's plenty of info on the Administrators dedicated portal as well as on Lendy's site as to how much the JA are charging. From the latest statement: Hourly charge out rates:
Rates at commencement £ Current rates £
Partner 625 625
Dirs / Asst Dirs 450 to 575 450 to 575
Manager 280 to 345 280 to 345
Asst Managers 210 to 290 210 to 290
Administrators 105 to 210 105 to 210
Support staff 90 to 190 90 to 190The average blended rate over c. £1m worth of JA effort is £396.27 + VAT; or £480 in round figures. Don't mean to snipe, but already enough mis-information being circulated, which just increases the fear / uncertainty / doubt, without it being added to unnecessarily. Ok, happy to round it to £480/h and £1M/year (although I believe it higher than that) Doesn't make much difference its just sky high...
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 21, 2020 21:18:52 GMT
When you say no fee deducted to pay RSM... then who do pay their £400-1000/h bill topping to million/year? As ilmoro said in his previous post: " they take their fees from Lendy. As Ive said previously, its Lendy creditors who will be hit". Creditors include 'Model 1 terms' lenders, not 'Model 2 terms' lenders. Won't they take the money out of the loan if lendy fund is depleted?
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Post by martin44 on Jun 21, 2020 21:36:59 GMT
Everyone will get what they get.... no point arguing.. every barrier raised is money in their pocket through (so called) admin costs.
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Post by rooster on Jun 21, 2020 22:04:20 GMT
As ilmoro said in his previous post: " they take their fees from Lendy. As Ive said previously, its Lendy creditors who will be hit". Creditors include 'Model 1 terms' lenders, not 'Model 2 terms' lenders. Won't they take the money out of the loan if lendy fund is depleted? I don't believe so but I don't have any evidence to back that opinion up either (and couldn't find the answer on Google). Perhaps it's done at the administrators sole risk or maybe they can cover themselves with insurance. It's a good question but I can't believe that every company is in sufficient financial state to pay administrators. Essentially (exaggerating it a little), the question I guess is: "who or what remunerates administrative receivers when a company they are realising has zero assets?"
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Post by martin44 on Jun 21, 2020 22:23:05 GMT
Won't they take the money out of the loan if lendy fund is depleted? I don't believe so but I don't have any evidence to back that opinion up either (and couldn't find the answer on Google). Perhaps it's done at the administrators sole risk or maybe they can cover themselves with insurance. It's a good question but I can't believe that every company is in sufficient financial state to pay administrators. Essentially (exaggerating it a little), the question I guess is: "who or what remunerates administrative receivers when a company they are realising has zero assets?" I fully respect your view ... but we will pay these costs.. from our invested monies.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 21, 2020 22:41:21 GMT
Won't they take the money out of the loan if lendy fund is depleted? I don't believe so but I don't have any evidence to back that opinion up either (and couldn't find the answer on Google). Perhaps it's done at the administrators sole risk or maybe they can cover themselves with insurance. It's a good question but I can't believe that every company is in sufficient financial state to pay administrators. Essentially (exaggerating it a little), the question I guess is: "who or what remunerates administrative receivers when a company they are realising has zero assets?" As in SSSH, the answer being Lendy is covering the costs. They could take money from client assets (see Beaufort Securities) but would need consent or a court order I believe. Currently they wont need to as there is already £4m+ ringfenced from the waterfall (based on the LAG FB spreadsheet). If the waterfall is removed then it will become more of an issue as RSM have already spent most of the assets realised to date but then there are other assets that they are pursuing I should correct or revise my point about fees not being an issue for investors just creditors … it is of course an issue for investors if they want to pursue shortfalls as creditors … if they waterfall is reversed there probably wont be much after fees.
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sam i am
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Post by sam i am on Jun 22, 2020 12:09:11 GMT
Let's hope the administrators can get their hands on the £6.8m that the Lendy directors allegedly transferred to the Marshall Islands for their own benefit (see other thread). That would help cover their fees.
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