chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on Jul 15, 2020 8:55:23 GMT
Anyone else notice that the Access queue only moved one place yesterday? No change for me on Plus, 79 yesterday and today. So it was indeed cancellations only for us higher up the queue.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 9:42:34 GMT
It really is pointless getting excited or despondent about daily figures without knowing the investment sizes.
A single request processed in a day could be £10 or £1,000,000. Without knowing which, the information is borderline useless.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Jul 15, 2020 9:46:58 GMT
I guess we all have our own spreadsheets now, extrapolating in various ways. The end dates are jumping wildly from day to day, as one might expect at this early stage. It'll start to get smoother when we have at least a full week to look at.
However, with all the usual caveats ... with the data as it stands today, on my estimate my modest Access holding will have fully repaid about a month or two before my RYI gets to the front of the queue! (Either because the remaining months are less than my forecast RYI date, or the unit will have amortised to below £10).
There is a little part of me thinking that if this remains the case when the numbers have settled a bit more, I might as well cancel the RYI to help support the platform ... because if the platform goes belly up before either repayment or RYI occurs, the losses might be significant.
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robski
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Post by robski on Jul 15, 2020 10:54:32 GMT
Ignoring the size of the investments, as we dont know anything, and just focussing on the numbers of requests
Aju is handy as he did the requests quite late and covered all the markets. The sheer number in access compared to 1yr and 5yr is clearly why there seems to be so much more progress in the legacy ones as opposed to the new ones.
I do wonder what RS will do when they get to the end of the 1yr and 5yr, which is actually in sight.
Could they possibly move loans from new to old. They cannot move investors money, but they could surely move the loans themselves from one market to another
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Post by oppsididitagain on Jul 15, 2020 11:17:24 GMT
Ignoring the size of the investments, as we dont know anything, and just focussing on the numbers of requests Aju is handy as he did the requests quite late and covered all the markets. The sheer number in access compared to 1yr and 5yr is clearly why there seems to be so much more progress in the legacy ones as opposed to the new ones. I do wonder what RS will do when they get to the end of the 1yr and 5yr, which is actually in sight. Could they possibly move loans from new to old. They cannot move investors money, but they could surely move the loans themselves from one market to another I made this point to RS. a few months back. Last year they started filling 1 year loans and non amortising loans in the access markets. They sent out an Email and made everyone aware, so all good there. The started filling the loans in access as the money was 'cheaper' approx 3% compared to the 1yr or 5yr rates , also Access and 5yrs have the same maturities so no real issue for us. . However I asked them to unwind these loans via the 1yr and 5yrs markets when it got to my turn in the queue, but they won't. Which I think is very poor. They say if loans are matched in 1 market they are unable to un-match loans to a different market .. Poor programming , or just a feeble excuse ?? Considering they can be bought in 1 market I dont see why they cant be unwound in another.
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Post by shanghaiscouse on Jul 15, 2020 12:10:01 GMT
? That isn't why they publish it. the reason is the same reason they keep publishing the amounts RYId each week. It is to give you a feeling of progress in the hope that you cancel your RYI. Its a kind of reverse psychology. Given that a big proportion of existing customers have RYId and we are essentially in a "run on the bank" situation, they have nothing to lose in terms of more people RYIing. They only hope to gain by influencing some people to give up and cancel their RYI. What would be the motivation to ‘give up’ and cancel if you’re far away from the front of the queue? You may as well keep it as an insurance policy? If anything, it’s when you’re almost at the front of the queue that you really have to make the decision. Maybe, just maybe, there’s no conspiracy here and RS - as they said - were just responding to this being repeatedly requested in feedback (which doesn’t surprise me given the majority will not be seeing the progress visible through this forum). Personally I think you underestimate the extent to which companies use psychology to influence actions of customers, particularly in online situations. The introduction of "friction" to make doing things they don't want you to do is one example. All of their incentives are to keep as many customers as possible, as that's how they get paid. For people who have already RYI'd, they will have tested on a sample that NOT providing this information was resulting in people NOT cancelling their RYIs, conversely providing this information resulted in more people cancelling the RYIs. I guess it is because being shown progress is being made in whittling down the queue, however small, gives you a feeling that the company is keeping its head down and getting on with business, it isn't going to go bust any time soon, it reassures you they are not throwing their hands up and surrendering, and hence you are more open to cancelling an RYI as you are less concerned you are going to lose everything. They will have talked long and hard about this before changing the interface. On the other hand, you could be right! But my experience of corporate life suggests no change is made just because customers ask for it. You make changes because they benefit you. Somethimes those two things are mutually exclusive, sometimes not.
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on Jul 15, 2020 12:19:21 GMT
What would be the motivation to ‘give up’ and cancel if you’re far away from the front of the queue? You may as well keep it as an insurance policy? If anything, it’s when you’re almost at the front of the queue that you really have to make the decision. Maybe, just maybe, there’s no conspiracy here and RS - as they said - were just responding to this being repeatedly requested in feedback (which doesn’t surprise me given the majority will not be seeing the progress visible through this forum). Personally I think you underestimate the extent to which companies use psychology to influence actions of customers, particularly in online situations. The introduction of "friction" to make doing things they don't want you to do is one example. All of their incentives are to keep as many customers as possible, as that's how they get paid. For people who have already RYI'd, they will have tested on a sample that NOT providing this information was resulting in people NOT cancelling their RYIs, conversely providing this information resulted in more people cancelling the RYIs. I guess it is because being shown progress is being made in whittling down the queue, however small, gives you a feeling that the company is keeping its head down and getting on with business, it isn't going to go bust any time soon, it reassures you they are not throwing their hands up and surrendering, and hence you are more open to cancelling an RYI as you are less concerned you are going to lose everything. They will have talked long and hard about this before changing the interface. On the other hand, you could be right! But my experience of corporate life suggests no change is made just because customers ask for it. You make changes because they benefit you. Somethimes those two things are mutually exclusive, sometimes not. I'm not disputing the extent to which 'companies' do this in general (hello the whole concept of advertising), but querying what the 'psychological' motivation would be to 'give up' (in your words) and cancel your RYI while far back in the queue. There is zero benefit to doing this from the individual's perspective. (Sure there could be a group benefit, but then we're into game theory and no one wants posts about game theory on these boards...!) And forgive me, but you have a lot of 'will have' going on in your post. I'd be inclined to resist such confidence in assertions without any actual evidence (e.g. not a single user on this forum seeing an early test of the queue position on their profile before others did).
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Jul 15, 2020 14:46:25 GMT
Personally I think you underestimate the extent to which companies use psychology to influence actions of customers, particularly in online situations. The introduction of "friction" to make doing things they don't want you to do is one example. All of their incentives are to keep as many customers as possible, as that's how they get paid. For people who have already RYI'd, they will have tested on a sample that NOT providing this information was resulting in people NOT cancelling their RYIs, conversely providing this information resulted in more people cancelling the RYIs. I guess it is because being shown progress is being made in whittling down the queue, however small, gives you a feeling that the company is keeping its head down and getting on with business, it isn't going to go bust any time soon, it reassures you they are not throwing their hands up and surrendering, and hence you are more open to cancelling an RYI as you are less concerned you are going to lose everything. They will have talked long and hard about this before changing the interface. On the other hand, you could be right! But my experience of corporate life suggests no change is made just because customers ask for it. You make changes because they benefit you. Somethimes those two things are mutually exclusive, sometimes not. I'm not disputing the extent to which 'companies' do this in general (hello the whole concept of advertising), but querying what the 'psychological' motivation would be to 'give up' (in your words) and cancel your RYI while far back in the queue. There is zero benefit to doing this from the individual's perspective. (Sure there could be a group benefit, but then we're into game theory and no one wants posts about game theory on these boards...!) And forgive me, but you have a lot of 'will have' going on in your post. I'd be inclined to resist such confidence in assertions without any actual evidence (e.g. not a single user on this forum seeing an early test of the queue position on their profile before others did). As it happens, I had Game Theory very much in my mind when I made my post just a few notches up in this thread. However, I'd like to challenge the "zero benefit" assumption. IF it is the case that your RYI is almost certainly not going to hit the front of the queue before it repays anyway - which in the case of the Access market, by the look of things, is quite a lot of RYI requests - then you might want to argue that keeping the RYI in place has no benefit to you and possibly a small disbenefit. If all of the people in that position cancelled their RYIs, then the platform would look a lot healthier. Remember that if the platform crashes then all investors stand to make some losses. And the difference between this and classic "Game Theory" scenarios is that there is no benefit to the odd renegade trying to get one over on everyone else by not joining in. Their RYI is never going to happen. (Well, almost "never" - of course, if lots of people further up the queue also cancelled then some of these impossible RYIs might come back into play - but if that starts to happen then we'd be looking at a return to normal conditions, which would be an entirely different bag of potatoes). The main practical difficulty is determining where the cut off comes, mainly because its not as simple as identifying a Request Number after which all RYIs are doomed, because it varies depending on the mix of loans that you happen to have. But you wouldn't have to be exact - if we could make a decent approximation and add some contingency you could say with a reasonable degree of confidence that XXXXX is the upper likely limit and anyone above that might as well cancel...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 14:49:09 GMT
People may want to revisit their 'numbers for today' - a second chunk appears to have processed
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on Jul 15, 2020 15:01:24 GMT
As it happens, I had Game Theory very much in my mind when I made my post just a few notches up in this thread. However, I'd like to challenge the "zero benefit" assumption. 1) IF it is the case that your RYI is almost certainly not going to hit the front of the queue before it repays anyway - which in the case of the Access market, by the look of things, is quite a lot of RYI requests - then you might want to argue that keeping the RYI in place has no benefit to you and possibly a small disbenefit. If all of the people in that position cancelled their RYIs, then the platform would look a lot healthier. Remember that if the platform crashes then all investors stand to make some losses. 2) And the difference between this and classic "Game Theory" scenarios is that there is no benefit to the odd renegade trying to get one over on everyone else by not joining in. Their RYI is never going to happen. (Well, almost "never" - of course, if lots of people further up the queue also cancelled then some of these impossible RYIs might come back into play - but if that starts to happen then we'd be looking at a return to normal conditions, which would be an entirely different bag of potatoes). 3) The main practical difficulty is determining where the cut off comes, mainly because its not as simple as identifying a Request Number after which all RYIs are doomed, because it varies depending on the mix of loans that you happen to have. But you wouldn't have to be exact - if we could make a decent approximation and add some contingency you could say with a reasonable degree of confidence that XXXXX is the upper likely limit and anyone above that might as well cancel... Clearly I was wrong that no-one wanted game theory chat [I've used some labelling] 1) Agreed re the latter part - this is the 'group benefit' that I was referring to. For me, the assumption in your initial sentence, though, is uncertain enough to be outweighed by the negative consequences of you being wrong about this and losing your place in the RYI queue. For this reason, I would still argue that there is no individual benefit here (although I appreciate this is perhaps more up for debate than the simplicity of my previous post may imply). 2) Yes, this is much more complex than a simple prisoner's dilemma game or the like. In fact, you'd have to make quite a few assumptions about how this all goes over the next few months to be able to model it, I guess. 3) For my reasons above, I think this is so uncertain as to not be possible (or at least, decent enough to be at all helpful). As you suggest yourself, a change in sentiment that saw lots of cancellations (and possibly more re-investment, and even new investors!) could make this situation change hugely. Then again, I'm entirely skeptical of all this sort of rationalist modelling anyway - I do a different sort of social science that economists would call mumbo-jumbo nonsense
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on Jul 15, 2020 15:01:53 GMT
People may want to revisit their 'numbers for today' - a second chunk appears to have processed Mine (Access) is still the same - which market is this for?
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up
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Post by up on Jul 15, 2020 15:07:42 GMT
For me mainly 5Y advanced by similar amount as for previous day. The 5Y progress bar looks to have been corrected -- previously it was showing progress from 10-July -- now it looks more correct for overall queue since RYI created as for the other markets. (perhaps they re-ran the update having fixed the 5Y bug so the latest figures may be partial for today)
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Post by Ace on Jul 15, 2020 15:08:20 GMT
My Access reduced by 3, but I'm up in the 12,000 area. So likely 3 cancellations. Probably RYIs are updated once per day, but cancellations are as-and-when. Pure speculation of course.
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Post by carol167 on Jul 15, 2020 15:08:29 GMT
People may want to revisit their 'numbers for today' - a second chunk appears to have processed Mine (Access) is still the same - which market is this for? My 5Yr RYI jumped from yesterday at 511 down to 488 this morning and is now down to 449 this afternoon. Interestingly the green bar was at 24.23% this morning and is now at a whopping 86.87%.
I'm guessing the green bar denotes amount of money in front left to go as opposed to the number indicating the number of RYI requests.
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on Jul 15, 2020 15:10:41 GMT
Hmmm... I wonder if this was a one-off due to the progress bar being sorted out where it wasn't accurate before, or whether we'll keep seeing multiple updates.
As I say above, my Access figure is the same, so this should mean that no further Access RYI requests have been processed, at least.
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