Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 9, 2020 11:11:03 GMT
I have now had it confirmed by Zopa that all loans purchased after 01/12/2017 will NOT be included in the calculation to receive a payout. So even though they show as being covered they have ceased to be since safeguard was paused and will NOT be included in the payout. That just doesn't seem right but once again investors are being taken for a ride. That bit does imply that SG loans outstanding that were sold on to lenders in the other accounts won't be included in the distribution. I suppose they are saying Access and Classic investors specifically bought the loans under the safeguard rules whereas getting them second hand was just chance. Can you actually tell which loans in the new accounts were safeguarded? I looked at my loan book and there is very little difference between what I get if I sum the 'safeguarded amount outstanding' and my Classic Account total, so either I didn't get many second hand or they have nearly all been repaid or they are not flagged as safeguarded (any more?).
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keystone
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Post by keystone on Nov 9, 2020 11:58:06 GMT
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 9, 2020 12:44:32 GMT
I only have access loans. They were all covered by safeguard. Over half of them were acquired in the week following 01/12/2017 and then no further loans acquired. They still state YES under the covered by safeguard heading. When safeguard was paused earlier in the year these loans apparently were no longer covered. Only the loans purchased prior to 01/12/2017 will be used to calculate the payout. This has been confirmed by Zopa. That does seem odd.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 9, 2020 13:56:01 GMT
Having checked more carefully of the loans still outstanding, I have several Classic loans made after 1st Dec 17. I also have about half as many again Core (safeguard) loans after 1st Dec 17. The number of loans Zopa say I have Safeguarded (in the loan book overview) is the total number of safeguarded loans minus the Core safeguarded loans, ie, it seems to include the late acquired Classic loans. (Which is sort of what I expected).
I have no idea how it will work out in practise! Not worth pursuing for the amount involved for me.
You could ask them if the number of loans safeguarded (still outstanding) shown in the loan book overview is correct and back figure to see if any have been left out.
I would be interested to know if that figure is correct if you find out.
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aju
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Post by aju on Nov 9, 2020 15:36:01 GMT
I've just checked a few of these loans and all covered by safeguard picked up after the closure of safeguard have indeed been paid out of safeguard. My statement checker is quite slow but it is the case that all the ones i can see that have completed with SG cover and defaulted and purchased after the closure of safeguard. I'm sure that somewhere in the distant past Zopa had used this as a relevant reason to invest in the loans. I.e. loans purchased that were covered will remain covered under the same rules as original SG. In other words the loans themselves were covered.
Does anyone have the change in writing from Zopa or is it just that there are people on the front desk who do not know how this really works. I re-read the new safeguard doc and could not find that the case was that sold SG loans are not covered for the new purchaser. As others say they are clearly marked up as being covered and as I said above its clear from my statements checker that the loans purchased from other lenders that had SG cover were closed by SG cover where they were defaulted.
Bit odd for Zopa to say that SG cover was not available on repurchased loans with SG cover settings if you ask me.
Edit: I have had a chance to re-read their recent safeguard update and I can now see what they are saying (only access and classic loans will benefit from the SG handouts at the end of the month - Mrs Aju has quite a bit of SG covered loans in Classic so that's ok but she also has quite a bit in Core. Fortunately most of the core stuff is less than the classic set stuff so I think Mrs Aju is ok.(Of course I won;t bother her with this as its hard enough to understand myself let alone explain to her - I'll probably just tell her we can't afford to buy any new clothes this month!)
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 9, 2020 16:18:40 GMT
I've just checked a few of these loans and all covered by safeguard picked up after the closure of safeguard have indeed been paid out of safeguard. My statement checker is quite slow but it is the case that all the ones i can see that have completed with SG cover and defaulted and purchased after the closure of safeguard. I'm sure that somewhere in the distant past Zopa had used this as a relevant reason to invest in the loans. I.e. loans purchased that were covered will remain covered under the same rules as original SG. In other words the loans themselves were covered. Does anyone have the change in writing from Zopa or is it just that there are people on the front desk who do not know how this really works. I re-read the new safeguard doc and could not find that the case was that sold SG loans are not covered for the new purchaser. As others say they are clearly marked up as being covered and as I said above its clear from my statements checker that the loans purchased from other lenders that had SG cover were closed by SG cover where they were defaulted. Bit odd for Zopa to say that SG cover was not available on repurchased loans with SG cover settings if you ask me. More odd that they say loans purchased after 1st Dec 17, as I have a number of Classic loans purchased after that date, although they appear to be included in my outstanding number of safeguarded loans (ones that are now in Core don't seem to be). Which loans appear to be included in your number of SG loans? I'm sure you would have that to hand.  The information about SG loans also has the before 1st Dec 17, as important information. I don't know if that was always there? Right at the bottom of the link. www.zopa.com/invest/risk/safeguard-policy
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aju
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Post by aju on Nov 9, 2020 16:46:23 GMT
I've just checked a few of these loans and all covered by safeguard picked up after the closure of safeguard have indeed been paid out of safeguard. My statement checker is quite slow but it is the case that all the ones i can see that have completed with SG cover and defaulted and purchased after the closure of safeguard. I'm sure that somewhere in the distant past Zopa had used this as a relevant reason to invest in the loans. I.e. loans purchased that were covered will remain covered under the same rules as original SG. In other words the loans themselves were covered. Does anyone have the change in writing from Zopa or is it just that there are people on the front desk who do not know how this really works. I re-read the new safeguard doc and could not find that the case was that sold SG loans are not covered for the new purchaser. As others say they are clearly marked up as being covered and as I said above its clear from my statements checker that the loans purchased from other lenders that had SG cover were closed by SG cover where they were defaulted. Bit odd for Zopa to say that SG cover was not available on repurchased loans with SG cover settings if you ask me. More odd that they say loans purchased after 1st Dec 17, as I have a number of Classic loans purchased after that date, although they appear to be included in my outstanding number of safeguarded loans (ones that are now in Core don't seem to be). Which loans appear to be included in your number of SG loans? I'm sure you would have that to hand. The information about SG loans also has the before 1st Dec 17, as important information. I don't know if that was always there? Right at the bottom of the link. www.zopa.com/invest/risk/safeguard-policyI wonder if that's a doctored document, Sadly Zopa does not date these documents or their updates. I may have a previous versions though i'll have look for them - my instict still says its incorrect but I need to go back and check I was working with core products rather than missing the point they were not Classic. We also passed a considerable amount of SG loans from Invest to ISA when the ISa's were first created but I'd need to check the dates. I did notice they were all marked as Classic though. The text in that links specifically says ... If that was true when they created that document - I'm assuming when SG was closed - then its categorically incorrect from my loans so far based on my statement recreation tools for our 4 products. I've checked a number of them in the past and as far as I can tell they are being paid back even if they were purchased after that date. (I need to double check this again to be certain though) This is a real pain but I guess its one that I have to check and double check before I go bother Zopa with any complaints - having made initial checks our exposure may not be even worth the time though.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 9, 2020 16:49:20 GMT
More odd that they say loans purchased after 1st Dec 17, as I have a number of Classic loans purchased after that date, although they appear to be included in my outstanding number of safeguarded loans (ones that are now in Core don't seem to be). Which loans appear to be included in your number of SG loans? I'm sure you would have that to hand. The information about SG loans also has the before 1st Dec 17, as important information. I don't know if that was always there? Right at the bottom of the link. www.zopa.com/invest/risk/safeguard-policyI wonder if that's a doctored document, Sadly Zopa does not date these documents or their updates. I may have a previous versions though i'll have look for them - my instict still says its incorrect but I need to go back and check I was working with core products rather than missing the point they were not Classic. We also passed a considerable amount of SG loans from Invest to ISA when the ISa's were first created but I'd need to check the dates. I did notice they were all marked as Classic though. The text in that links specifically says ... If that was true when they created that document - I'm assuming when SG was closed - then its categorically incorrect from my loans so far based on my statement recreation tools for our 4 products. I've checked a number of them in the past and as far as I can tell they are being paid back even if they were purchased after that date. (I need to double check this again to be certain though) This is a real pain but I guess its one that I have to check and double check before I go bother Zopa with any complaints - having made initial checks our exposure may not be even worth the time though. I'm pretty sure mine isn't, the small number of loans for small amounts that might possibly be excluded from a partial payment, probably amounts to a few pounds at most, mainly just curious.
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aju
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Post by aju on Nov 9, 2020 19:28:00 GMT
I wonder if that's a doctored document, Sadly Zopa does not date these documents or their updates. I may have a previous versions though i'll have look for them - my instict still says its incorrect but I need to go back and check I was working with core products rather than missing the point they were not Classic. We also passed a considerable amount of SG loans from Invest to ISA when the ISa's were first created but I'd need to check the dates. I did notice they were all marked as Classic though. The text in that links specifically says ... If that was true when they created that document - I'm assuming when SG was closed - then its categorically incorrect from my loans so far based on my statement recreation tools for our 4 products. I've checked a number of them in the past and as far as I can tell they are being paid back even if they were purchased after that date. (I need to double check this again to be certain though) This is a real pain but I guess its one that I have to check and double check before I go bother Zopa with any complaints - having made initial checks our exposure may not be even worth the time though. I'm pretty sure mine isn't the small number of loans for small amounts that might possibly be excluded from a partial payment, probably amounts to a few pounds at most, mainly just curious. So i've checked and Mrs Aju has 2 loans since May that are defaulted and are deferred payments all the rest both core and classic have been cleared by SG when they were picked up after the 1 Dec 2017. As I say there are 2 loans that are in default and have not triggered the SG payments but I think Zopa and RS have declared that they will not be closing these out. On my side I have quite a few more but then still only to the value of <£100 and mostly deferred payments where many of which are paying something!. I can't find any old docs that show the 2017 notification but for me Zopa has been paying for sold SG covered loans until most recently. There are some real odd default dates on some of the SG loans but who cares as long as SG paid them off - for us anyway. Like you we have very few Core loans that have SG cover and won't get a payment as far as i can tell. Time will tell I guess. 
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Post by fuzzyiceberg on Nov 10, 2020 17:10:28 GMT
I had a discussion with Zopa yesterday. Until May this year SG had paid out on all loans regardless of which product they were in. Now that they think there is not enough in the fund to pay all futures losses on SG loans, any SG loans not in the original products (Access and Classic) will be disregarded as SG coverage for those loans (eg in Core or Plus) was a 'bonus' as loans originating is those products (as opposed to being purchsed from other investors) did not have SG coverage.
Anyway, bottom line is Zopa will be distributing the fund based on SG loans in Access and Classic only, on some kind of weighted average liklihood to default basis.
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Post by p2pbystander on Nov 25, 2020 19:30:57 GMT
Quietly winding down my account before a "we've frozen cash withdrawals until more favourable market conditions occur" happens. With all the shafting Zopa has been doing of late, I would not put it pass them to block access to your money!!!
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Post by df on Nov 25, 2020 20:53:29 GMT
Quietly winding down my account before a "we've frozen cash withdrawals until more favourable market conditions occur" happens. With all the shafting Zopa has been doing of late, I would not put it pass them to block access to your money!!! I very much doubt that Zopa will be blocking access to our money, they are very unlikely to be in that position. For me personally this arrangement works well (I'm in Access/Classic only). My "earnings" on Z is higher than the remaining capital and the early distribution of SG helps with cash drag. I don't know what my Z return will be at the end of it, but I know it won't be negative.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 25, 2020 21:17:28 GMT
Quietly winding down my account before a "we've frozen cash withdrawals until more favourable market conditions occur" happens. With all the shafting Zopa has been doing of late, I would not put it pass them to block access to your money!!! I very much doubt that Zopa will be blocking access to our money, they are very unlikely to be in that position. For me personally this arrangement works well (I'm in Access/Classic only). My "earnings" on Z is higher than the remaining capital and the early distribution of SG helps with cash drag. I don't know what my Z return will be at the end of it, but I know it won't be negative. Unlike other platforms like RS losses are taken upfront by lenders, so there is no reason to stop access to your holding account funds, in worst case scenario there could be no interest or even capital losses, meaning (as usual but larger amounts of) anticipated funds are not credited to your holding account, but we all know that don't we? Although currently I'm still expecting positive income.
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aju
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Post by aju on Nov 25, 2020 23:30:50 GMT
Quietly winding down my account before a "we've frozen cash withdrawals until more favourable market conditions occur" happens. With all the shafting Zopa has been doing of late, I would not put it pass them to block access to your money!!! I very much doubt that Zopa will be blocking access to our money, they are very unlikely to be in that position. For me personally this arrangement works well (I'm in Access/Classic only). My "earnings" on Z is higher than the remaining capital and the early distribution of SG helps with cash drag. I don't know what my Z return will be at the end of it, but I know it won't be negative. Have you received some early distribution of SG, not seen anything in our pots so far and we have a fair few covid hits so far.
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ashe
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Post by ashe on Nov 26, 2020 9:01:42 GMT
Just had an email with payout, which is probably about 1.7% of my remaining amount, within the email saying it won't cover all future defaults. To me it does seem like a bit of an attempt to avoid negative headlines saying that the Zopa Safeguard fund has run out of money.
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