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Post by fuzzyiceberg on Jul 21, 2020 9:18:26 GMT
Having checked my account I was surprised ot see that I had both a number of safeguard loans over 4 moonths in arrears but also a number of safeguard loans that had been defaulted but not purchased by the safeguard fund. On enqury Zopa tell me they have stopped paying out on safeguarded loans. I guess they must have accidently forgotten to put that in any of their EMails to investors.
Folks we are being royally shafted by Zopa. Not only are they giving anyone borrower who wants it an interest free (note - interest free) payment holiday regardless of circumstances they have alos now quietly stopped safeguard payouts. While I accept the FCA have more or less required lenders to permit holidays, no one said they have to be interest free. Indeed all the banks building societies etc continue to charge interest during any payment holiday. This is a unilateral decision by Zopa at our expense and points up a problem of the P2P model where we have no comeback on nay of this.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jul 21, 2020 9:44:18 GMT
Having checked my account I was surprised ot see that I had both a number of safeguard loans over 4 moonths in arrears but also a number of safeguard loans that had been defaulted but not purchased by the safeguard fund. On enqury Zopa tell me they have stopped paying out on safeguarded loans. I guess they must have accidently forgotten to put that in any of their EMails to investors.
Folks we are being royally shafted by Zopa. Not only are they giving anyone borrower who wants it an interest free (note - interest free) payment holiday regardless of circumstances they have alos now quietly stopped safeguard payouts. While I accept the FCA have more or less required lenders to permit holidays, no one said they have to be interest free. Indeed all the banks building societies etc continue to charge interest during any payment holiday. This is a unilateral decision by Zopa at our expense and points up a problem of the P2P model where we have no comeback on nay of this.
Did you use email or did you speak to them. I wonder if its a case similar to the "arrangement" status in that the SG on arrangement's from the Covid changes inn that they are still Safe guarded but Zopa is waiting until they become defaults as such. The reason I ask if you rang is that if you emailed you could post you email - redacted of course for names etc. If not let me know I'll do some digging in my data, after all I had nearly 400 arrangements when I last looked some of them may be SG if it's not arrangements then I think that is more serious. Mrs Aju still has 4 figures in classic SG covered loans and we both have many that were picked up after previous lenders made sales. We do need the make a clarification before we assume they are changing the terms midstream.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jul 21, 2020 10:40:44 GMT
For the first time ever (or for a very long time). I got a safeguard payment email this month. With the details of the payment was this (which I vaguely remember reading back in the day).
What is Safeguard?
As you invested in Zopa Classic or Zopa Access between 2013 and 2017, you benefit from our Safeguard provision fund. This means that if a borrower defaults on their loan - which happens after four months of missed payments - Safeguard can make a payment to you, covering the outstanding balance of the loan whilst also taking ownership of it.
How does Safeguard work?
The fund is topped up with fees paid by borrowers. It's important to remember that Safeguard payments are not guaranteed. If the fund is unable to cover future expected losses, it may only pay out for part of the outstanding balance or not make a payment at all. You can read the Safeguard policy in full here.
The Safeguard fund we offer does not give you a right to a payment so you may not receive a pay-out even if you suffer loss. The fund has absolute discretion as to the amount that may be paid, including making no payment at all. Therefore, investors should not rely on possible pay-outs from the Safeguard fund when considering whether or how much to invest.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jul 21, 2020 10:56:52 GMT
For the first time ever (or for a very long time). I got a safeguard payment email this month. With the details of the payment was this (which I vaguely remember reading back in the day). What is Safeguard?
As you invested in Zopa Classic or Zopa Access between 2013 and 2017, you benefit from our Safeguard provision fund. This means that if a borrower defaults on their loan - which happens after four months of missed payments - Safeguard can make a payment to you, covering the outstanding balance of the loan whilst also taking ownership of it.
How does Safeguard work?
The fund is topped up with fees paid by borrowers. It's important to remember that Safeguard payments are not guaranteed. If the fund is unable to cover future expected losses, it may only pay out for part of the outstanding balance or not make a payment at all. You can read the Safeguard policy in full here.
The Safeguard fund we offer does not give you a right to a payment so you may not receive a pay-out even if you suffer loss. The fund has absolute discretion as to the amount that may be paid, including making no payment at all. Therefore, investors should not rely on possible pay-outs from the Safeguard fund when considering whether or how much to invest.Yes now you come to mention it I think Mrs Aju got one of those, I probably did too but as I read Mrs Aju's first I probably just saved it and moved on. Thing is Zopa SG has been around a long time so most of us should have known this was the case I believe Zopa had always been clear on this front. I signed the recent waver knowing this personally but perhpas its because I've understood the position rather than it being explicit who knows. I've actually made a quick check of my main databases (Just a load of connected spreadsheets so not that grand!) for Mrs Aju's SG covered loans and its seems there are some entries that a clearly older than the usual default trigger period. I checked the "arrangement" items as that it the status Zopa uses for borrowers who have requested some forbearance from covid issues for a period. She has a few that look like they are this type from the the comments although Zopa does not always use the comments for this useful stuff according to other threads on this forum anyway. I still have to check mine it was just that Mrs Aju had a lot or normal Classic loans transferred to her ISA when it was offered. We kept as much of the SG we could during our recent sales we still have some to go. Edit: I check my non ISA and I have many safeguards in arrangement in both cases I've checked so far no defaults that are SG. I guess we should wait to see what fuzzyiceberg says regarding the email or conversation
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wapping35
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Post by wapping35 on Jul 21, 2020 14:39:44 GMT
Unfortunately this does not really surprise me. Albeit I do feel Zopa should tell investors that SG is not fully reimbursing.
The reason I say this is when I sold my SG loans back in late March I queried why a large MRA was applied (well over 6%) and they said it was since the SG was not designed to cope with the present exceptional circumstances. The discount reflected the increased default risk (which was previously zero for the MRA purposes).
i.e. They expected SG Fund to stop being able to reimburse losses at some point in the future and that is why I was charged and buyers were credited the MRA I mentioned above.
I sold them March 30th.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jul 21, 2020 15:46:36 GMT
Unfortunately this does not really surprise me. Albeit I do feel Zopa should tell investors that SG is not fully reimbursing. The reason I say this is when I sold my SG loans back in late March I queried why a large MRA was applied (well over 6%) and they said it was since the SG was not designed to cope with the present exceptional circumstances. The discount reflected the increased default risk (which was previously zero for the MRA purposes). i.e. They expected SG Fund to stop being able to reimburse losses at some point in the future and that is why I was charged and buyers were credited the MRA I mentioned above. I sold them March 30th. I tried to make sure I sold as little SG as I could but still get the benefit of selling other loans. Perhaps I should start buying again perhaps there will be a lot more of SG loans on sale I could hoover them up and get the MRA adjustments. 
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jul 21, 2020 17:22:00 GMT
Unfortunately this does not really surprise me. Albeit I do feel Zopa should tell investors that SG is not fully reimbursing. The reason I say this is when I sold my SG loans back in late March I queried why a large MRA was applied (well over 6%) and they said it was since the SG was not designed to cope with the present exceptional circumstances. The discount reflected the increased default risk (which was previously zero for the MRA purposes). i.e. They expected SG Fund to stop being able to reimburse losses at some point in the future and that is why I was charged and buyers were credited the MRA I mentioned above. I sold them March 30th. I tried to make sure I sold as little SG as I could but still get the benefit of selling other loans. Perhaps I should start buying again perhaps there will be a lot more of SG loans on sale I could hoover them up and get the MRA adjustments. Although that should just put you back in the same position as buying new loans, or do you think the old SG loans will be better even with Covid? I got rid of most of my SG loans and have got a better rate with the newer products (after defaults) than the SG ones with defaults covered.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jul 21, 2020 18:06:38 GMT
I tried to make sure I sold as little SG as I could but still get the benefit of selling other loans. Perhaps I should start buying again perhaps there will be a lot more of SG loans on sale I could hoover them up and get the MRA adjustments. Although that should just put you back in the same position as buying new loans, or do you think the old SG loans will be better even with Covid? I got rid of most of my SG loans and have got a better rate with the newer products (after defaults) than the SG ones with defaults covered. Sorry, I was being somewhat flippant, I'm not really about to start us re-lending in either Zopa or any other P2P until things are more improved from my risk perspective. Out of interest what rates are being given for new loans - I don;t trust their monthly email projections if I'm honest. In the ISA before covid it seemed that we were getting way too many defaults relative to new loans but we have made some sales last year to move stuff to RS and reduce our overall exposures. In RS I have not been able to release anything at all since I requested the sales at beginning of May - way later than the WALL. Zopa on the otherhand has managed to sell most of our loans that we asked it to. We kept back quite a bit of old Classic loans mostly in Invest for me and in both Invest and ISA for Mrs Aju. We are not relending in any of our products so our Xirr's for the last few months are just wildly daft/wrong - not sure why but I am monitoring both monthly and years at that level and with the selling and withdrawing returned funds I think Excel is confused or i've just got the Excel parameters/figures all wrong (Probably my mistakes I feel). The overriding thing for us though is that we have been in Zopa for many years now so the MAR was a savage hit to take but we still have quite a buffer of returns before we would be eating into any Capital. Mind you the rates we are getting outside of P2P are somewhat useless in comparison but I managed to get us into some of the fixed rates before the race to the bottom.
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Post by fuzzyiceberg on Jul 21, 2020 18:29:37 GMT
I probably should have said Zopa have suspended safeguard payments. They are waiting to see the fallout form covid. SG loans where they have been granting payment holidays are not being defaulted and defaulted SG loans are being treated as non SG deafulted loans for the time being. And they have pointed out there is no right to a SG payment now or in the future. It is entirely at their discretion.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jul 22, 2020 5:45:00 GMT
Although that should just put you back in the same position as buying new loans, or do you think the old SG loans will be better even with Covid? I got rid of most of my SG loans and have got a better rate with the newer products (after defaults) than the SG ones with defaults covered. Sorry, I was being somewhat flippant, I'm not really about to start us re-lending in either Zopa or any other P2P until things are more improved from my risk perspective. Out of interest what rates are being given for new loans - I don;t trust their monthly email projections if I'm honest. In the ISA before covid it seemed that we were getting way too many defaults relative to new loans but we have made some sales last year to move stuff to RS and reduce our overall exposures. In RS I have not been able to release anything at all since I requested the sales at beginning of May - way later than the WALL. Zopa on the otherhand has managed to sell most of our loans that we asked it to. We kept back quite a bit of old Classic loans mostly in Invest for me and in both Invest and ISA for Mrs Aju. We are not relending in any of our products so our Xirr's for the last few months are just wildly daft/wrong - not sure why but I am monitoring both monthly and years at that level and with the selling and withdrawing returned funds I think Excel is confused or i've just got the Excel parameters/figures all wrong (Probably my mistakes I feel). The overriding thing for us though is that we have been in Zopa for many years now so the MAR was a savage hit to take but we still have quite a buffer of returns before we would be eating into any Capital. Mind you the rates we are getting outside of P2P are somewhat useless in comparison but I managed to get us into some of the fixed rates before the race to the bottom. I am withdrawing repayments from RS, not trying to sell because of fees and huge queues! I am sticking with Zopa, also been there a long time (with early adopter bonus), and not wanting to take the hit on selling. Rates are still OK my overall NAR on Zopa is up slightly from February at 4.25%. I'm mainly in Plus. Are you looking at the Zopa bank fixed rate savings accounts?
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aju
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Post by aju on Jul 22, 2020 7:14:04 GMT
Sorry, I was being somewhat flippant, I'm not really about to start us re-lending in either Zopa or any other P2P until things are more improved from my risk perspective. Out of interest what rates are being given for new loans - I don;t trust their monthly email projections if I'm honest. In the ISA before covid it seemed that we were getting way too many defaults relative to new loans but we have made some sales last year to move stuff to RS and reduce our overall exposures. In RS I have not been able to release anything at all since I requested the sales at beginning of May - way later than the WALL. Zopa on the otherhand has managed to sell most of our loans that we asked it to. We kept back quite a bit of old Classic loans mostly in Invest for me and in both Invest and ISA for Mrs Aju. We are not relending in any of our products so our Xirr's for the last few months are just wildly daft/wrong - not sure why but I am monitoring both monthly and years at that level and with the selling and withdrawing returned funds I think Excel is confused or i've just got the Excel parameters/figures all wrong (Probably my mistakes I feel). The overriding thing for us though is that we have been in Zopa for many years now so the MAR was a savage hit to take but we still have quite a buffer of returns before we would be eating into any Capital. Mind you the rates we are getting outside of P2P are somewhat useless in comparison but I managed to get us into some of the fixed rates before the race to the bottom. I am withdrawing repayments from RS, not trying to sell because of fees and huge queues! I am sticking with Zopa, also been there a long time (with early adopter bonus), and not wanting to take the hit on selling. Rates are still OK my overall NAR on Zopa is up slightly from February at 4.25%. I'm mainly in Plus. Are you looking at the Zopa bank fixed rate savings accounts? We only ever had 20% in plus at best. I have early adopter .5% but to be honest at present we have higher rates on our money outside than Zopa bank rates so far. Am considering ns&i when Marcus bonus rate runs out end of next month. I tend to move most excess funds to mrs aju for tax reasons. We had a double whammy losing our dividends recently too. Not the best year so far but we are still doing ok.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jul 22, 2020 13:24:22 GMT
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aju
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Post by aju on Jul 22, 2020 15:15:42 GMT
Good question benaj Sadly I don't know but it's still buying some loans for us, I think there were 4 SG closures since 28/4, and checking their comments it does look like they were SG closures. I have a flag in my dataset that tells me they are SG closures as a back up this was taken from statements closure comments last month. My last loan flagged SG closure was 29th May in my most recent data integration from the 5th July.
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Post by angel19 on Jul 22, 2020 17:34:12 GMT
My last Safeguard quarterly statement on 9th July showed between April 1st - June 30th 2020 the Safeguard Fund compensated me for £49.83 of defaulted loans.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jul 23, 2020 7:03:45 GMT
My last Safeguard quarterly statement on 9th July showed between April 1st - June 30th 2020 the Safeguard Fund compensated me for £49.83 of defaulted loans. What is a quarterly statement are they emails? The only statements I'm working from are monthly and online. Am i missing something? Or just not fully reading all the emails properly Edit: I've found eMails now they seemed to have started in Jan 2020 for both of us. I guess because my monthly correlations and database updates pinpoint that information for me monthly I didn't even notice it. I have probably read them even but as I say then moved on as it's info I already had.
My experience with Zopa and al has been one of catchup. For me knowing this stuff live at the instant I want to check rather than 3 monthly after the fact is not really that interesting. It will be a good thing to correlate my info though. Over the years Zopa has made some quite large gaffs in many areas under the hood and me being very untrusting of data errors I keep track of everything concerned with important and valuable things like my money!.
I might actually check their results though just because I can. The way they deliver so many issues and errors into their front end means their back end is probably also prone to similar problems. Their method of fixing the cookies when one logs out is quite laughable if you ask me and shows their is no consistent design analysis before they just throw it together and foist it on the unwashed!.
Oops I'm on my testing or lack of it high horse again. 
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