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Post by diversifier on Aug 9, 2020 14:49:41 GMT
Only two listed? I see eight listed: Charter, Coventry, United Trust, Metro, Kent, Close, Paragon, Arbuthnot There are only two Instant (Easy in HL lingo) Access listed.
All the others you refer to tie your money up for at least one month, culminating with the last you cite which has a term of one year.
Yes. I am aware. For clarity: if you care about credit guarantees *only* and are prepared to sacrifice everything else to get it including term and interest rate, and you’d like a low effort way to do it, HL Active Savings can be a useful contribution. That’s my situation for a % of assets. Otherwise it may not be useful to you.
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coogaruk
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Post by coogaruk on Aug 9, 2020 15:39:15 GMT
My personal take on HL Active Savings which I have kept an eye on from time to time since its inception.
While it looks very simple on the surface it seems to get a bit more complicated when you drill down into some of the detail. I've also never really been a believer in holding all my eggs in one basket, so to speak.
There have been some decent rates on offer in the past including at one point 1.2%* Easy Access from Coventry BS, which was no lower than had you opened an account directly with the provider. In that sense it was tempting.
Since then we have seen the BoE BR slashed to 0.1% and for me NS&I currently blows everything else out of the savings water. Long that may continue but it won't be forever.
*The current rate on that offering is 0.3%
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Post by geofft on Aug 13, 2020 9:16:49 GMT
I've always rejected Premium Bonds in the past, thinking they were safe but boring with an uncompetitive average rate of return. Things have changed somewhat just recently of course and they started to look a little more attractive so thought I'd have a little tickle with 5k worth and landed two £25 prizes in the first qualifying draw . Probably just beginners luck and won't see another win ever again, but don't overlook them if your looking for a safe home for some cash.
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bt
Sir Bufton Tufton, Jean Paul Sartre Zippy, Bungle, Jeffrey Archer Andre Previn and the LSO Hello
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Post by bt on Aug 13, 2020 9:26:53 GMT
I've always rejected Premium Bonds in the past, thinking they were safe but boring with an uncompetitive average rate of return. Things have changed somewhat just recently of course and they started to look a little more attractive so thought I'd have a little tickle with 5k worth and landed two £25 prizes in the first qualifying draw . Probably just beginners luck and won't see another win ever again, but don't overlook them if your looking for a safe home for some cash. Mine have averaged about 1.3% over the last 5 years. Still waiting for the million...
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Post by geofft on Aug 13, 2020 9:37:10 GMT
I've always rejected Premium Bonds in the past, thinking they were safe but boring with an uncompetitive average rate of return. Things have changed somewhat just recently of course and they started to look a little more attractive so thought I'd have a little tickle with 5k worth and landed two £25 prizes in the first qualifying draw . Probably just beginners luck and won't see another win ever again, but don't overlook them if your looking for a safe home for some cash. Mine have averaged about 1.3% over the last 5 years. Still waiting for the million... They're currently claiming a 1.4% average return, so your experience seems to back that up...
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aju
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Post by aju on Aug 13, 2020 9:42:55 GMT
Mine have averaged about 1.3% over the last 5 years. Still waiting for the million... They're currently claiming a 1.4% average return, so your experience seems to back that up... Yeah I guess you are right but what if you are one of the luckier ones and are on the upper end of the %age curve there has to be someone who is at the other end, I can't help thinking that P2P is a risk but with whats happened lately with my defaults i'd probably chuck a few grand (just got 5Y sale come through) in and i'd be that one or 5000 or more. Not for me feels just too much like gambling, say's he with loads of defaults in Zopa still Edit: I wish my typing would keep up with my brain ...!
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macq
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Post by macq on Aug 13, 2020 10:39:55 GMT
They're currently claiming a 1.4% average return, so your experience seems to back that up... Yeah I guess you are right but what if you are one of the luckier ones and are on the upper end of the %age curve there has to be someone who is at the other end, I can't help thinking that P2P is a risk but with whats happened lately with my defaults i'd probably chuck a few grand (just got 5Y sale come through) in and i'd be that one or 5000 or more. Not for me feels just too much like gambling, say's he with loads of defaults in Zopa still Edit: I wish my typing would keep up with my brain ...! Think you make a good point that people should see them as gambling rather then trying to workout a rate of return(but then that would rule out hundreds if not thousands of posts on MSE ) and NS&I don't help with their average rate/win which tends to make them comparable with savings. My dad had PB's going back to the 50's until he died and always called them his free raffle ticket due to getting the money back at any point(he seemed quite happy so i did not try and explain inflation!)
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aju
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Post by aju on Aug 13, 2020 10:45:14 GMT
Yeah I guess you are right but what if you are one of the luckier ones and are on the upper end of the %age curve there has to be someone who is at the other end, I can't help thinking that P2P is a risk but with whats happened lately with my defaults i'd probably chuck a few grand (just got 5Y sale come through) in and i'd be that one or 5000 or more. Not for me feels just too much like gambling, say's he with loads of defaults in Zopa still Edit: I wish my typing would keep up with my brain ...! Think you make a good point that people should see them as gambling rather then trying to workout a rate of return(but then that would rule out hundreds if not thousands of posts on MSE ) and NS&I don't help with their average rate/win which tends to make them comparable with savings. My dad had PB's going back to the 50's until he died and always called them his free raffle ticket due to getting the money back at any point(he seemed quite happy so i did not try and explain inflation!) I like your dad's approach to this and if I have funds loose - we just got our main investment in the 5Y out - there may be some spare after robbing money from the hfx (see elsewhere) may give it a punt. My brother has had good luck so perhpas I am seeing too many people in the upper end though Edit: Why do I keep typing "perhaps" wrong the same way - I can play the guitar so one would have thought the amount of typing I do would give me some form of typing muscle memory(sorry i digressed there)
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Post by geofft on Aug 13, 2020 11:10:13 GMT
Think you make a good point that people should see them as gambling rather then trying to workout a rate of return(but then that would rule out hundreds if not thousands of posts on MSE ) and NS&I don't help with their average rate/win which tends to make them comparable with savings. My dad had PB's going back to the 50's until he died and always called them his free raffle ticket due to getting the money back at any point(he seemed quite happy so i did not try and explain inflation!) I like your dad's approach to this and if I have funds loose - we just got our main investment in the 5Y out - there may be some spare after robbing money from the hfx (see elsewhere) may give it a punt. My brother has had good luck so perhpas I am seeing too many people in the upper end though Edit: Why do I keep typing "perhaps" wrong the same way - I can play the guitar so one would have thought the amount of typing I do would give me some form of typing muscle memory(sorry i digressed there) I don't really see PB's as gambling - the word normally indicates that you are putting all your capital at risk but here all you are 'gambling' on is the rate of interest, much like p2p really I guess the way to see it is just another option for spreading the risk with your cash, and with a sufficiently large amount you're likely to receive somewhere around 1-1.5% return, not the biggest gamble in the world. I'm just languishing in my current 12% PB return, I can now enjoy watching that rate drop like a stone over the next few months.
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bt
Sir Bufton Tufton, Jean Paul Sartre Zippy, Bungle, Jeffrey Archer Andre Previn and the LSO Hello
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Post by bt on Aug 13, 2020 11:26:37 GMT
I like your dad's approach to this and if I have funds loose - we just got our main investment in the 5Y out - there may be some spare after robbing money from the hfx (see elsewhere) may give it a punt. My brother has had good luck so perhpas I am seeing too many people in the upper end though Edit: Why do I keep typing "perhaps" wrong the same way - I can play the guitar so one would have thought the amount of typing I do would give me some form of typing muscle memory(sorry i digressed there) I don't really see PB's as gambling - the word normally indicates that you are putting all your capital at risk but here all you are 'gambling' on is the rate of interest, much like p2p really I guess the way to see it is just another option for spreading the risk with your cash, and with a sufficiently large amount you're likely to receive somewhere around 1-1.5% return, not the biggest gamble in the world. I'm just languishing in my current 12% PB return, I can now enjoy watching that rate drop like a stone over the next few months. Tax free too.
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Post by df on Aug 13, 2020 11:36:30 GMT
A couple of posters have now mentioned that there still are a handful of good P2P outfits out there. Out of interest, it would be good to know what a few of them are, in people's opinions. Don't know if it qualifies as P2P but I can think of Lendinvest. What are the others? I’m still actively investing on unbolted and ablrate. The others that I regard as worth staying with are Assetz capital, lending crowd and Rebs.
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coogaruk
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Post by coogaruk on Aug 13, 2020 12:01:32 GMT
Yeah I guess you are right but what if you are one of the luckier ones and are on the upper end of the %age curve there has to be someone who is at the other end, I can't help thinking that P2P is a risk but with whats happened lately with my defaults i'd probably chuck a few grand (just got 5Y sale come through) in and i'd be that one or 5000 or more. Not for me feels just too much like gambling, say's he with loads of defaults in Zopa still Edit: I wish my typing would keep up with my brain ...! Think you make a good point that people should see them as gambling rather then trying to workout a rate of return(but then that would rule out hundreds if not thousands of posts on MSE ) and NS&I don't help with their average rate/win which tends to make them comparable with savings. My dad had PB's going back to the 50's until he died and always called them his free raffle ticket due to getting the money back at any point(he seemed quite happy so i did not try and explain inflation!) PBs are definitely investing, not gambling (Here I go again, ducks head...) and if you can't at least beat inflation with them in the current economic climate then you really are very unlucky!
Edit: Apologies for the last bit. I was confusing the inflation rate with interest rates for a moment! First point still stands though.
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macq
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Post by macq on Aug 13, 2020 13:22:18 GMT
Think you make a good point that people should see them as gambling rather then trying to workout a rate of return(but then that would rule out hundreds if not thousands of posts on MSE ) and NS&I don't help with their average rate/win which tends to make them comparable with savings. My dad had PB's going back to the 50's until he died and always called them his free raffle ticket due to getting the money back at any point(he seemed quite happy so i did not try and explain inflation!) PBs are definitely investing, not gambling (Here I go again, ducks head...) and if you can't at least beat inflation with them in the current economic climate then you really are very unlucky! Heads up i will play (but not for another 20 posts ) You buy a bond with a number the same as a lottery or raffle and your entered in a draw to win a prize - so at that point its a gamble Its the fact you don't lose your stake that changes the point of view and maybe and the fact it comes from NS&I
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aju
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Post by aju on Aug 13, 2020 13:43:26 GMT
Think you make a good point that people should see them as gambling rather then trying to workout a rate of return(but then that would rule out hundreds if not thousands of posts on MSE ) and NS&I don't help with their average rate/win which tends to make them comparable with savings. My dad had PB's going back to the 50's until he died and always called them his free raffle ticket due to getting the money back at any point(he seemed quite happy so i did not try and explain inflation!) PBs are definitely investing, not gambling (Here I go again, ducks head...) and if you can't at least beat inflation with them in the current economic climate then you really are very unlucky! I sort of agree it's definitely not saving as such and I like the idea of 1.4% too. At present I may have a punt on them if I have nowhere slightly more clear cut in terms of return. I didn't realise its tax free. My tax free helper, Mrs aju, usually solved most of that if ISA's are not involved for us - although in a couple of years we are going to have to do a bit more planning. (If we are still around that is ). On the other hand I'm busy sorting out new Halifax accounts and getting all my ducks in the right rows etc, also waiting for some other funds free from RS and Zopa. I know its not that much now i'm in and waiting for the £100 * 2 before I commit to the £5 (£6.25 with tax returned) for £5000 storage each. That seems to work out at 1.5% guaranteed (the reward part that is not the £100 bit if I can get all the rules locked off and don't waiver at all.
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Post by Harland Kearney on Aug 13, 2020 14:05:24 GMT
My issue with P-Bonds is that you must hold them for circa 5 years to truely benefit from the 1.4% in the gurranteed sense mathmatically. You can look up calculators that come to the same conclusion. The attraction of winning big prizes is akin to gambling but I'd say it without the stigma honestly. Your capital is protected so it really isn't the same thing. To really benefit from them you need to hold the 50k max, that gives you the highest chance of the best prizes. You wont' find me holding 50k cash as a investment anytime...
This leads to a big problem, you can get higher rates in a fixed 5 years cash savings account than 1.4% so why bother using them? Personally at that window of 5 years I would throw it in a decent fund like Fundsmith and you will have much larger capital creation than P-Bonds (but higher risk). In reaility your just burning money to inflation at such a low rate for such a extended period of time, which off ways the higher risk of entering the market.
I assume the only reason I'd hold them is if I had a set amount of cash buffer and P-Bonds was the only decent thing in store, id never go out of my way to invest in them outside of my normal cash holding. The income bonds I prefere as the income is guranteed not on the whim of the old lottery tickets!
Maybe I come off a bit strong, but 5 years with lower than 2% gains per year means loss in reaility in todays world, has done since 09, will continue to do so after 2020.
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