dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Aug 7, 2020 18:51:57 GMT
Place your opening predictions here...
Opening day (Wednesday? possibly? maybe?)
£100K available @ 20% discount
£250K @ 10% £500K @ 5% £1M @ 1%
Stab in the dark.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Aug 8, 2020 8:19:55 GMT
How will this be measured / monitored?
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Post by angel19 on Aug 8, 2020 8:45:43 GMT
If you cancel an existing AA withdrawal in the current primary (at par) market and move to the new secondary market with a discount, you will not benefit from any of the pro rata withdrawal payments that have built up over the last week. So until that payment is made the secondary market should be very sparse.
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upperdeane
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Post by upperdeane on Aug 8, 2020 8:55:39 GMT
If you cancel an existing AA withdrawal in the current primary (at par) market and move to the new secondary market with a discount, you will not benefit from any of the pro rata withdrawal payments that have built up over the last week. So until that payment is made the secondary market should be very sparse. How do you know that is true? Has AC confirmed? i would have thought the backdated payments would be processed immediately on re-opening that process.
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Aug 8, 2020 9:13:10 GMT
If you cancel an existing AA withdrawal in the current primary (at par) market and move to the new secondary market with a discount, you will not benefit from any of the pro rata withdrawal payments that have built up over the last week. So until that payment is made the secondary market should be very sparse. That seems incorrect.
AC's Chris has always stated that loan holdings, interest earned and capital repayment are calculated on a second by second basis. On MLA I regularly receive payments for holdings already sold based on my accured entitlement.
So there's no reason to think that interest earned and capital repayments due won't be allocated appropriately.
And in all likelihood they will process all 'on hold' distributions prior to the secondary market going live. So you won't be able to initiate a change before hand anyways.
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Aug 8, 2020 9:16:14 GMT
How will this be measured / monitored? I'm sure someone can work up a macro which will open the invest / withdrawal dialogs and test various discount levels on a regular basis.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Aug 8, 2020 9:51:24 GMT
How will this be measured / monitored? I'm sure someone can work up a macro which will open the invest / withdrawal dialogs and test various discount levels on a regular basis. Hmmmn... unless 'someone' has £1m in their Cash Account to test if there's that amount available to fill an order of that size, that may not be possible. Maybe the system will allow you to test both market depth and breadth without having sufficient funds on account but the inclusion of " If you’re investing funds that aren’t already in your cash account, you will need to add your deposit intentions." in AC's documentation suggests to me that won't be the case. (Also, it seems more logical from a system design standpoint to halt the logic at the 'insufficient funds on account' stage early doors, rather the iterating through 'can we match this' only to reach the funds-on-account snaffu further down the line; but I am definitely not a programmer!)
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Post by angel19 on Aug 8, 2020 10:20:35 GMT
If you cancel an existing AA withdrawal in the current primary (at par) market and move to the new secondary market with a discount, you will not benefit from any of the pro rata withdrawal payments that have built up over the last week. So until that payment is made the secondary market should be very sparse. That seems incorrect.
AC's Chris has always stated that loan holdings, interest earned and capital repayment are calculated on a second by second basis. On MLA I regularly receive payments for holdings already sold based on my accured entitlement.
So there's no reason to think that interest earned and capital repayments due won't be allocated appropriately.
And in all likelihood they will process all 'on hold' distributions prior to the secondary market going live. So you won't be able to initiate a change before hand anyways.
I’m afraid there is no accrued entitlement to withdrawals. When you cancel the withdrawal you are saying you no longer want to withdraw. Of course if you have multiple withdrawals you cancel some, and those not cancelled will get you the pro rata payment. If you only have one withdrawal in play wait for the accrued pay out before cancelling.
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Aug 8, 2020 10:36:07 GMT
I'm sure someone can work up a macro which will open the invest / withdrawal dialogs and test various discount levels on a regular basis. Hmmmn... unless 'someone' has £1m in their Cash Account to test if there's that amount available to fill an order of that size, that may not be possible. Maybe the system will allow you to test both market depth and breadth without having sufficient funds on account but the inclusion of " If you’re investing funds that aren’t already in your cash account, you will need to add your deposit intentions." in AC's documentation suggests to me that won't be the case. (Also, it seems more logical from a system design standpoint to halt the logic at the 'insufficient funds on account' stage early doors, rather the iterating through 'can we match this' only to reach the funds-on-account snaffu further down the line; but I am definitely not a programmer!) True, but I think for the majority of retail investors a test with just £10K, £20K or £40K would probably suffice. Both you and I could cover that requirement.
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 8, 2020 10:38:36 GMT
I rather had the impression that you could not enter the discount SM until you had released all the withdrawal requests on that account (and lost your place in the par queue in the case of a future return to FIFO). Such a pre-condition would provide a barrier to entry to the SM. You either 'do nothing' or fully enter the new SM regime from scratch. This is not clear, but we will see on Wednesday. We here have four accounts, two ISA, two ordinary, and so can choose which to leave and which to discount (if any).
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Aug 8, 2020 10:59:54 GMT
I rather had the impression that you could not enter the discount SM until you had released all the withdrawal requests on that account (and lost your place in the par queue in the case of a future return to FIFO). Such a pre-condition would provide a barrier to entry to the SM. You either 'do nothing' or fully enter the new SM regime from scratch. This is not clear, but we will see on Wednesday. We here have four accounts, two ISA, two ordinary, and so can choose which to leave and which to discount (if any). Agreed. AC FAQs says "Firstly, it’s important to note that if you have a current withdrawal instruction from the Access Accounts, you won’t be able to use this feature. If you would like to invest new funds into the Access Accounts, you’ll need to cancel those Withdrawal Instructions first as investors need to be either investing or withdrawing at any time, not both."
No way am I going to be cancelling all of my AA withdrawals on the off chance I'll pick up a bit more QAA money at a discount. I'd rather keep my withdrawals in place, take the occasional payout and invest in the MLA and/or withdraw it from AC.
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Aug 8, 2020 11:00:13 GMT
Also the granularity of the discount levels is as yet unknown.
MLA dropdown only allows 0.5% steps. QAA screenshots seem to show a 1% step scroll wheel, although confirmations show 1.00% so could you enter 0.95% manually ?
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 8, 2020 11:50:30 GMT
I rather had the impression that you could not enter the discount SM until you had released all the withdrawal requests on that account (and lost your place in the par queue in the case of a future return to FIFO). Such a pre-condition would provide a barrier to entry to the SM. You either 'do nothing' or fully enter the new SM regime from scratch. This is not clear, but we will see on Wednesday. We here have four accounts, two ISA, two ordinary, and so can choose which to leave and which to discount (if any). Agreed. AC FAQs says "Firstly, it’s important to note that if you have a current withdrawal instruction from the Access Accounts, you won’t be able to use this feature. If you would like to invest new funds into the Access Accounts, you’ll need to cancel those Withdrawal Instructions first as investors need to be either investing or withdrawing at any time, not both."
No way am I going to be cancelling all of my AA withdrawals on the off chance I'll pick up a bit more QAA money at a discount. I'd rather keep my withdrawals in place, take the occasional payout and invest in the MLA and/or withdraw it from AC.
That's slightly different from my case as a seller, because that is in the investing section, and it means that if you wish to invest through the SM you cannot also be withdrawing. That may upset flipping. My question is also based on FAQs S (same link): 'However, if you would like to use the Access Account Marketplace to sell your loan holdings at a discount to potentially speed up your withdrawal (subject to demand from buyers at the discount level you choose to set), you’ll need to cancel your original withdrawal request and create a new one.' I don't know what that means. Can I not add an extra withdrawal request from QAA and why not (if I have the funds)? Do I also have to cancel my withdrawal requests from 30D and 90D before I can make a discounted offer on QAA? If I have a discounted offer extant, can I not also put my remaining QAA up for withdrawal (and get the usual distribution)? Many of us will wish to sell some of our holdings at a discount quickly and some at par more slowly. We shall see.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 8, 2020 12:29:08 GMT
That's slightly different from my case as a seller, because that is in the investing section, and it means that if you wish to invest through the SM you cannot also be withdrawing. That may upset flipping. My question is also based on FAQs S (same link): 'However, if you would like to use the Access Account Marketplace to sell your loan holdings at a discount to potentially speed up your withdrawal (subject to demand from buyers at the discount level you choose to set), you’ll need to cancel your original withdrawal request and create a new one.' I don't know what that means. Can I not add an extra withdrawal request from QAA and why not (if I have the funds)? Do I also have to cancel my withdrawal requests from 30D and 90D before I can make a discounted offer on QAA? If I have a discounted offer extant, can I not also put my remaining QAA up for withdrawal (and get the usual distribution)? Many of us will wish to sell some of our holdings at a discount quickly and some at par more slowly. We shall see.
I believe* that the system will probably treat the QAA, 30DAA and 90DAA accounts as being separate, so one might have a withdrawal instruction in place in the 30DAA / 90DAA whilst also setting up investment bid(s) in the QAA. I also believe that, whilst the QAA system won't permit both withdrawal offers and investment bids at the same time, it should permit multiple offers (or multiple bids) at different discounts at the same time, up to the total balance in the relevant account (ie. balance in the QAA for selling, balance in Cash for buying). So, if you'd already got an existing £500 withdrawal request (at Par) in the QAA out of a total QAA balance of £1000, you should still be free to set up, say, 5 additional offers of £100 each at 2% / 4% / 6% / 8% / 10% discounts without cancelling the £500 Par "offer". But, if your total QAA balance was £500 (ie. you'd already requested withdrawal in full) then you'd have no remaining balance available with which to set up a discounted offer, meaning you'd have to cancel the existing £500 Par "offer" to start any discounting. The sentence you quote from yesterday's email is consistent with this but open to other interpretations! I think (not certain) that ISA and Standard QAA accounts likely will be considered separate as well, so an optimistic Flipper might seek to buy at good discounts in their Standard QAA whilst offering to sell at lower discounts in their ISA QAA. If successful over time, they might then cancel their outstanding offers / bids and start up again in reverse. *without being permitted to say why!
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 8, 2020 12:38:14 GMT
Agreed. AC FAQs says "Firstly, it’s important to note that if you have a current withdrawal instruction from the Access Accounts, you won’t be able to use this feature. If you would like to invest new funds into the Access Accounts, you’ll need to cancel those Withdrawal Instructions first as investors need to be either investing or withdrawing at any time, not both."
No way am I going to be cancelling all of my AA withdrawals on the off chance I'll pick up a bit more QAA money at a discount. I'd rather keep my withdrawals in place, take the occasional payout and invest in the MLA and/or withdraw it from AC.
That's slightly different from my case as a seller, because that is in the investing section, and it means that if you wish to invest through the SM you cannot also be withdrawing. That may upset flipping. My question is also based on FAQs S (same link): 'However, if you would like to use the Access Account Marketplace to sell your loan holdings at a discount to potentially speed up your withdrawal (subject to demand from buyers at the discount level you choose to set), you’ll need to cancel your original withdrawal request and create a new one.' I don't know what that means. Can I not add an extra withdrawal request from QAA and why not (if I have the funds)? Do I also have to cancel my withdrawal requests from 30D and 90D before I can make a discounted offer on QAA? If I have a discounted offer extant, can I not also put my remaining QAA up for withdrawal (and get the usual distribution)? Many of us will wish to sell some of our holdings at a discount quickly and some at par more slowly. We shall see.
I assume that the assumption being made is that the existing withdrawal request is for the full holdings and given that you cant create withdrawal requests for a cumulative sum greater than your holdings you would have to delete the existing request. I see no reason if you have a withdrawal request for on part of the funds you wouldnt be able to create an additional request for al, or part of the balance at discount if you wish. There has never been anything stopping multiple withdrawal requests being made and see no reason why this would change.
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