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Post by coolrunning on Sept 28, 2020 6:23:50 GMT
I stopped everything in March.
Is it now time for a rethink?
How are defaults going?
What are the new Estonia loans like?
Pullout vs Hold vs Careful investments?
What are your views?
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Post by wiseclerk on Sept 29, 2020 15:35:57 GMT
Said it before, but just in case you forgot , if you want up to date discussions on the current state use autotranslate (Chrome browser) More than a dozen threads with active discussion in the past 30 days
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Post by rahafoorum on Sept 30, 2020 12:23:56 GMT
You can ask from many parents that relying on pulling out is a bad strategy. You should think a few steps ahead at least.
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parisingoc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 87
Likes: 25
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Post by parisingoc on Oct 10, 2020 13:00:10 GMT
Hi there. I needed something positive to help me cope with the stunning incompetence of the Bondora IT team, so I will answer your questions from my experiences over this year. In order: Rethink, now! My "delinquency" rate reached above 20% during late April, about the height of the Pandemic (wave 1) here in Europe. Even though I sell everything "at risk" according to strict rules, my account value did NOT drop noticeably during the 8 weeks to around the end of May. I had a lot of cash at one point, but I kept buying according to my, very focussed, criteria. Apart from this 8-week hiatus, my overall plan is still on target. I have no defaults. I haven't had any since I embarked on my latest adventure in June 2018, when I started by creating a clean slate. As above, I sell everything "at risk" according to strict guidelines that means I will eventually give things away. Everything goes before it defaults. I did not buy Estonian loans before March this year, as they never met my strict rules for purchase (they didn't make enough!), but now they are all there is, so that's the way it is. Careful Investment every time! However, some interpretation of this term is necessary. All my money in Bondora was free to me. I withdrew my original investment before 2018, so my portfolio has cost me nothing - I could lose it all and it wouldn't affect my standard of living. My "careful investment" returns 50% per annum overall. I re-invest all income. I will do until I feel I can take an income that is worth taking and spending in as reckless a way as some may feel I acquired it! Hope this answers your questions.
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Post by coolrunning on Oct 10, 2020 16:11:18 GMT
Until March, I used to sell most of my failing loans on the 2nd market.
But so many people started selling out then that it became hard to sell anything, too many sellers.
So I took a break.
Now I am looking again at the second market.
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Post by rahafoorum on Oct 11, 2020 2:18:27 GMT
My "careful investment" returns 50% per annum overall. Nice. How much time does it take for you to achieve that result? I mean, how much time do you spend on managing your portfolio?
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parisingoc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 87
Likes: 25
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Post by parisingoc on Oct 11, 2020 6:36:39 GMT
My "careful investment" returns 50% per annum overall. Nice. How much time does it take for you to achieve that result? I mean, how much time do you spend on managing your portfolio? I wondered if anyone would ask. I'll start with some perspective. I'm, retired, I have all the time in the world. I actually enjoy the feeling of achievement, particularly when I write myself a new database and so reduce the time spent on it by 50%. Even with all this, I spend between 1 and 3 hours a day - days like today (Sunday) when nothing much is happening, 5 minutes every hour sees it ticking over, tomorrow (a big payment day), it's an hour first thing to catch up, then more than 5 minutes an hour as things happen and money has to be spent. I know it's less than minimum wage, but as I said in my original answer, I don't actually need the money, I know Bondora's IT Shennanigans infuriate me, but beside putting wood in the stove(s) every hour this time of year, what else should I do to keep the brain working? (Actually, I have an answer, I intend to teach myself a modern programming language and try to automate it using the API, but it hurts!)
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Post by Estonia Invest on Apr 6, 2021 11:35:08 GMT
Nice. How much time does it take for you to achieve that result? I mean, how much time do you spend on managing your portfolio? I wondered if anyone would ask. I'll start with some perspective. I'm, retired, I have all the time in the world. I actually enjoy the feeling of achievement, particularly when I write myself a new database and so reduce the time spent on it by 50%. Even with all this, I spend between 1 and 3 hours a day - days like today (Sunday) when nothing much is happening, 5 minutes every hour sees it ticking over, tomorrow (a big payment day), it's an hour first thing to catch up, then more than 5 minutes an hour as things happen and money has to be spent. I know it's less than minimum wage, but as I said in my original answer, I don't actually need the money, I know Bondora's IT Shennanigans infuriate me, but beside putting wood in the stove(s) every hour this time of year, what else should I do to keep the brain working? (Actually, I have an answer, I intend to teach myself a modern programming language and try to automate it using the API, but it hurts!) parisingoc, I realize this is an old post, but can you give us an idea of the actual activities to achieve 50% ROI? (without giving away any secrets) Is it basically buying loans on the secondary market(that are priced below value) and reselling? Thanks!
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parisingoc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 87
Likes: 25
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Post by parisingoc on Apr 7, 2021 8:25:09 GMT
parisingoc, I realize this is an old post, but can you give us an idea of the actual activities to achieve 50% ROI? (without giving away any secrets) Is it basically buying loans on the secondary market(that are priced below value) and reselling? Thanks! If only it were that easy . . . . It's been a year, so things have changed (as they always do with Bondora!) I am still on track with the 50% p.a. returns target, but only just. 12 months ago, the vast majority of my loans were Spanish, with a quoted average interest rate of 60%+ across my "current" loans. As of today, the vast majority are Estonian, with the average interest rate across the "Current" loans being 48.06%. Doing the maths using a simple compound interest calculation with all returns re-ionvested, I double my book value every 2 years = 50% return in simple terms. (I know, it's arguable!) A year ago, my book max'd out its delinquency rates at 17% (10/2/20) and 28% (13/4/20) on "Current" loan values of 1640 and 1200 Euros respectively. This year, my book has "min'd" out its delinquency rate at 0% (that's right - no delinquent loans) on 3 days so far - 30/1/21, 20/3/21 & 31/3/21, on loan numbers of 1864, 1992 & 2013 (I know, I changed my counting, unforgiveable, but I'm old and lazy) and my "Current" book value as I write this is 2531 Euros - so about double this time last year. Bondora has changed things a lot over this year (situation normal, I hear you say). They now look a lot like your average bank - low returns for the punter (who does not have to think at all for it, while they make shedloads using our money, because they do all the work for us!) while people who want to think hard about things have to think even harder to make less. They do this by disconnecting us from the people we are making money from. It's called "Disintermediation", basically, inserting yourself between the supplier and the customer and making money in that space. Think "Deliveroo" and "Uber" and "Just Eat". At least Bondora actually employ their people and pay them properly, so they are not Ogres. So it is that I now run a few "Portfolio Pro" scenarios, where I sell (cheaply) 95% of the loans I am "given" because my experiance has taught me that they will fail to produce my required return. I use the return from these along with my book returns to buy on the secondary market. I buy with the intention of holding until I have doubled my stake. I then sell them cheaply to my wife's account, which is really for our grandchildren, whilst retaing my 100% return over my holding of the loan. My wife's account is returning a "Dashboard" Net return of over 23%, whilst mine is 8.16%. In reality, few loans make it to our grandchildrens account. I sell at the first sign of trouble, usually at a profit. I stop buying loans that cross the "event horizon" of my buying criteria, usually destined never to return. I target loans with a value of less than 10 Euros. 95% of my loans are of 1 Euro - they are far easier to sell than higher denominations, but it makes the work harder, just keeping track of everything. All in all, I just enjoy myself (but I realise that expression is not what some people would call it!). The mental challenge and discipline of keeping things on track while Bondora try their hardest to make things hard for me is added piquancy as I try to keep my aging brain active. My criteria for purchase? That would be telling! Suffice to say that I buy loans that (look as though they will) pay back. Simple really. I hope this helps
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Post by rahafoorum on Apr 8, 2021 15:11:19 GMT
They now look a lot like your average bank - low returns for the punter (who does not have to think at all for it, while they make shedloads using our money, because they do all the work for us!) while people who want to think hard about things have to think even harder to make less. Wtih the exception that banks actually keep the credit risk as well
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Post by coolrunning on Apr 12, 2021 8:07:36 GMT
parisingoc, I realize this is an old post, but can you give us an idea of the actual activities to achieve 50% ROI? (without giving away any secrets) Is it basically buying loans on the secondary market(that are priced below value) and reselling? Thanks! If only it were that easy . . . . It's been a year, so things have changed (as they always do with Bondora!) I am still on track with the 50% p.a. returns target, but only just. 12 months ago, the vast majority of my loans were Spanish, with a quoted average interest rate of 60%+ across my "current" loans. As of today, the vast majority are Estonian, with the average interest rate across the "Current" loans being 48.06%. Doing the maths using a simple compound interest calculation with all returns re-ionvested, I double my book value every 2 years = 50% return in simple terms. (I know, it's arguable!) A year ago, my book max'd out its delinquency rates at 17% (10/2/20) and 28% (13/4/20) on "Current" loan values of 1640 and 1200 Euros respectively. This year, my book has "min'd" out its delinquency rate at 0% (that's right - no delinquent loans) on 3 days so far - 30/1/21, 20/3/21 & 31/3/21, on loan numbers of 1864, 1992 & 2013 (I know, I changed my counting, unforgiveable, but I'm old and lazy) and my "Current" book value as I write this is 2531 Euros - so about double this time last year. Bondora has changed things a lot over this year (situation normal, I hear you say). They now look a lot like your average bank - low returns for the punter (who does not have to think at all for it, while they make shedloads using our money, because they do all the work for us!) while people who want to think hard about things have to think even harder to make less. They do this by disconnecting us from the people we are making money from. It's called "Disintermediation", basically, inserting yourself between the supplier and the customer and making money in that space. Think "Deliveroo" and "Uber" and "Just Eat". At least Bondora actually employ their people and pay them properly, so they are not Ogres. So it is that I now run a few "Portfolio Pro" scenarios, where I sell (cheaply) 95% of the loans I am "given" because my experiance has taught me that they will fail to produce my required return. I use the return from these along with my book returns to buy on the secondary market. I buy with the intention of holding until I have doubled my stake. I then sell them cheaply to my wife's account, which is really for our grandchildren, whilst retaing my 100% return over my holding of the loan. My wife's account is returning a "Dashboard" Net return of over 23%, whilst mine is 8.16%. In reality, few loans make it to our grandchildrens account. I sell at the first sign of trouble, usually at a profit. I stop buying loans that cross the "event horizon" of my buying criteria, usually destined never to return. I target loans with a value of less than 10 Euros. 95% of my loans are of 1 Euro - they are far easier to sell than higher denominations, but it makes the work harder, just keeping track of everything. All in all, I just enjoy myself (but I realise that expression is not what some people would call it!). The mental challenge and discipline of keeping things on track while Bondora try their hardest to make things hard for me is added piquancy as I try to keep my aging brain active. My criteria for purchase? That would be telling! Suffice to say that I buy loans that (look as though they will) pay back. Simple really. I hope this helps
Glad to see some posts here !
My thanks especially to Paris.
I started in 2014 when the Bondora world was different, and indeed much better. Bondora has made major changes since then, mostly for the worse.
Currently I get about 11% return, and this is based on my calculation not Bondora's exaggerated one. Most of my returns are based on old investments.
Now I only work on the 2nd market and have 2 strategies: - buy worthy current loans with a modest premium - buy heavily discounted defaults
Unfortunately in the last few months both these strategies have failed: - current loans with a modest premium and heavily discounted defaults are no longer available
I have a good sized wallet and nothing to invest in so have been forced to join the masses and put 400 euros per month in G&G
I also set up a portfolio pro profile but it gives me peanuts.
Maybe time to look for another investment channel?
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parisingoc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 87
Likes: 25
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Post by parisingoc on Apr 12, 2021 14:41:19 GMT
Good to see there are still some people hanging around here! I too have been musing on whether to look around for other opportunities. The last 3 years has seen something of a shake-out (to put it mildly!) of the "classic" P2P sites. Are there any left that actually remember the original definition and that offer the access to data that marks Bondora out (even to this day) as providing the quantity of information that is really needed if you want to make it anything like possible?
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Post by dtb on May 25, 2022 8:29:46 GMT
I read on trustpilot many reviews about people having problems getting money out of Bondora. Yesterday I was amazed when I pressed the withdraw button and literally 3 seconds later it pinged up in my Revolut account. It was the go and grow account though. I might actually send it back now I have confidence.
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