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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 12, 2021 8:15:13 GMT
Anybody else thing it's tragic that we're having to cull pigs at the same time we have food banks?  I think the first bit is a problem in and of itself, without the second bit. Part of the ongoing cluster**** that is our country right now.
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 12, 2021 8:26:39 GMT
who the hell wants spring lamb ? Its had no chance to gain any proper flavour. Far better to have lamb later in the season when its more mature and closer to the 1 year limit Our friendly local hogget-pusher has retired, unfortunately. I see what you did there. Yes, eat quorn. Flavour ceases to be a consideration. Might just as well eat the washing-up sponge instead. And as for toefood... Can anybody explain to me why veggies and vegans seem so determined to eat massively-processed junk, just because it's vaguely reminiscent of the worst processed meat? I thought going for plant-based diets was meant to be about health and eating naturally... I'm not sure they do in general. There are some 'massively processed' vegan/veggie food on the shelves, but then there are equally heavily processed meat products (and often in the same 'category' as each other e.g. 'sausages' or 'bacon'). But just because they are there, doesn't mean the majority of veggies eat that stuff the majority of the time. [The biggest downer for me is the quantity of salt that goes in to many, even more so than in meat based processed foods]. On the subject of Tofu. I used to agree with you. Also that it tended to break easily in cooking. Hated the stuff. However it is a very good flavour absorber, and much of cooking is about introducing flavour to other stuff. Since I found Tofoo Naked, a veggie stir fry with marinated tofoo as the protein part is now a go to regular non-meat meal for me. I typically start by flavouring it with garlic & chilli (potentially + ginger) in veg oil. Then take it out and use the oil for frying; quickly marinate the tofu in some soya sauce and cook it fast and high: you get a really nice savoury end product with decent texture contrast). And none of the above is anything you would not consider doing with some meats.
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Post by captainconfident on Oct 12, 2021 8:34:38 GMT
Our friendly local hogget-pusher has retired, unfortunately. I see what you did there. Yes, eat quorn. Flavour ceases to be a consideration. Might just as well eat the washing-up sponge instead. And as for toefood... Can anybody explain to me why veggies and vegans seem so determined to eat massively-processed junk, just because it's vaguely reminiscent of the worst processed meat? I thought going for plant-based diets was meant to be about health and eating naturally... I'm not sure they do in general. There are some 'massively processed' vegan/veggie food on the shelves, but then there are equally heavily processed meat products (and often in the same 'category' as each other e.g. 'sausages' or 'bacon'). But just because they are there, doesn't mean the majority of veggies eat that stuff the majority of the time. [The biggest downer for me is the quantity of salt that goes in to many, even more so than in meat based processed foods]. On the subject of Tofu. I used to agree with you. Also that it tended to break easily in cooking. Hated the stuff. However it is a very good flavour absorber, and much of cooking is about introducing flavour to other stuff. Since I found Tofoo Naked, a veggie stir fry with marinated tofoo as the protein part is now a go to regular non-meat meal for me. I typically start by flavouring it with garlic & chilli (potentially + ginger) in veg oil. Then take it out and use the oil for frying; quickly marinate the tofu in some soya sauce and cook it fast and high: you get a really nice savoury end product with decent texture contrast). And none of the above is anything you would not consider doing with some meats. I can comment on this subject. The reason I am determined to eat massively-processed junk is the same reason I sometimes have a crafty fag. The junk tastes great. Veggie junk food has come on in strides over the last ten years. But why would you be so interested in the health quality of my diet? Having been veggie for 30 years, I am well used to the tenor of this argument - "if you don't eat meat you should not want to eat things that are like meat". I don't eat meat because I don't think animals should be killed for my pleasure. But that doesn't erase my memories of how lovely meat was.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Oct 12, 2021 9:03:11 GMT
Anybody else thing it's tragic that we're having to cull pigs at the same time we have food banks? I guess it depends on whether you like pork or not
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 12, 2021 9:21:17 GMT
I'm not sure they do in general. There are some 'massively processed' vegan/veggie food on the shelves, but then there are equally heavily processed meat products (and often in the same 'category' as each other e.g. 'sausages' or 'bacon'). But just because they are there, doesn't mean the majority of veggies eat that stuff the majority of the time. [The biggest downer for me is the quantity of salt that goes in to many, even more so than in meat based processed foods]. On the subject of Tofu. I used to agree with you. Also that it tended to break easily in cooking. Hated the stuff. However it is a very good flavour absorber, and much of cooking is about introducing flavour to other stuff. Since I found Tofoo Naked, a veggie stir fry with marinated tofoo as the protein part is now a go to regular non-meat meal for me. I typically start by flavouring it with garlic & chilli (potentially + ginger) in veg oil. Then take it out and use the oil for frying; quickly marinate the tofu in some soya sauce and cook it fast and high: you get a really nice savoury end product with decent texture contrast). And none of the above is anything you would not consider doing with some meats. I can comment on this subject. The reason I am determined to eat massively-processed junk is the same reason I sometimes have a crafty fag. The junk tastes great. Veggie junk food has come on in strides over the last ten years. But why would you be so interested in the health quality of my diet?Having been veggie for 30 years, I am well used to the tenor of this argument - "if you don't eat meat you should not want to eat things that are like meat". I don't eat meat because I don't think animals should be killed for my pleasure. But that doesn't erase my memories of how lovely meat was. were you responding to the wrong quote ? I don't think I was making any judgement on what other people eat, let alone vegetarians, who regardless of whatever else they are putting into their diet, are at least chopping out one of the big contributors to several health problems.  
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Post by captainconfident on Oct 12, 2021 10:09:53 GMT
I can comment on this subject. The reason I am determined to eat massively-processed junk is the same reason I sometimes have a crafty fag. The junk tastes great. Veggie junk food has come on in strides over the last ten years. But why would you be so interested in the health quality of my diet?Having been veggie for 30 years, I am well used to the tenor of this argument - "if you don't eat meat you should not want to eat things that are like meat". I don't eat meat because I don't think animals should be killed for my pleasure. But that doesn't erase my memories of how lovely meat was. were you responding to the wrong quote ? I don't think I was making any judgement on what other people eat, let alone vegetarians, who regardless of whatever else they are putting into their diet, are at least chopping out one of the big contributors to several health problems. Sorry Brakkers, it was the question in bold from adrianc which was quoted in this thread.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 12, 2021 10:21:35 GMT
I can comment on this subject. The reason I am determined to eat massively-processed junk is the same reason I sometimes have a crafty fag. The junk tastes great. Veggie junk food has come on in strides over the last ten years. But why would you be so interested in the health quality of my diet? Having been veggie for 30 years, I am well used to the tenor of this argument - "if you don't eat meat you should not want to eat things that are like meat". I don't eat meat because I don't think animals should be killed for my pleasure. But that doesn't erase my memories of how lovely meat was. Yes, a lot of people eat rubbish. But somebody who actively chooses to make a major dietary choice - especially to go full vegan - to then eat rubbish? That's the bit that doesn't make sense to me. But, then, I don't eat junk... Just look at the hype over the Gregg's vegan "sausage" rolls... Even if they're twice as good as the meat ones, they'll be utterly foul. Then look at things like the various mycoproteins and the like. Quorn simply doesn't exist outside an industrial process - it's a spin-off from an animal feed product that failed commercially, ICI's "Pruteen". www.biotechnologynotes.com/industrial-biotechnology/single-cell-protein/steps-involved-in-scp-single-cell-protein-production-from-bacteria-and-yeast-industrial-biotechnology/14030(Section 4 describes the production of Pruteen, section 5 describes how Quorn developed from it.)I'm not particularly interested in the health quality of your diet, Cap'n, I'm merely idly enquiring about what seems to me to be a massive logical disconnect, albeit one that's somewhat outside the scope of this thread...
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Post by captainconfident on Oct 12, 2021 10:35:17 GMT
I can comment on this subject. The reason I am determined to eat massively-processed junk is the same reason I sometimes have a crafty fag. The junk tastes great. Veggie junk food has come on in strides over the last ten years. But why would you be so interested in the health quality of my diet? Having been veggie for 30 years, I am well used to the tenor of this argument - "if you don't eat meat you should not want to eat things that are like meat". I don't eat meat because I don't think animals should be killed for my pleasure. But that doesn't erase my memories of how lovely meat was. Yes, a lot of people eat rubbish. But somebody who actively chooses to make a major dietary choice - especially to go full vegan - to then eat rubbish? That's the bit that doesn't make sense to me. But, then, I don't eat junk... Just look at the hype over the Gregg's vegan "sausage" rolls... Even if they're twice as good as the meat ones, they'll be utterly foul. Then look at things like the various mycoproteins and the like. Quorn simply doesn't exist outside an industrial process - it's a spin-off from an animal feed product that failed commercially, ICI's "Pruteen". www.biotechnologynotes.com/industrial-biotechnology/single-cell-protein/steps-involved-in-scp-single-cell-protein-production-from-bacteria-and-yeast-industrial-biotechnology/14030(Section 4 describes the production of Pruteen, section 5 describes how Quorn developed from it.)I'm not particularly interested in the health quality of your diet, Cap'n, I'm merely idly enquiring about what seems to me to be a massive logical disconnect, albeit one that's somewhat outside the scope of this thread... I think my earlier reply should have logically connected it for you, but to spell it out again: A vast number of vegans etc are not making a "healthy eating" choice. They (I) do not think it is right to eat animals.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Oct 16, 2021 9:59:47 GMT
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 16, 2021 14:47:45 GMT
The problem with NI now is very simple conceptually but nobody would want to admit it as the solution is difficult. The problem is simply that the Good Friday agreement was created at a time when NI and Ireland were both in the EU and of course customs market etc. The agreement is held up by everyone (including me) as a fantastic agreement which it is as it enabled both sides to stop killing and bombing. Hardly anyone will admit to it as the agreement was so successful and nobody wants to touch it, but it will have to be revisited because one of its key premises is now false.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Oct 16, 2021 15:02:53 GMT
but it will have to be revisited because one of its key premises is now false. Except:- 1. Lots of people pointed out the contradictions and complexities involved in NI and Brexit. 2. We were assured by Johnson, Davis, Cummings Frost et al that NI and the border wouldn't be a problem (along with the oven ready trade deal etc), which was obviously nonsense at the time, but that was the message pedalled. And the people point out the issues were hit with the trite "Project Fear" label again. 3. The NIP was negotiated, agreed and signed by Jonhson's government ahead of our withdrawal from the EU precisely because the EU knew that NI and the GFA were going to be problematic. 4. Johnson (and his government, and the normal crowd of et al) now want to tear it up. Because, durr, "it doesn't work" (subtext for the Tories and the Unionists). If (and I am not sure that I agree) one its key premises "is now false", it would still have been false when Johnson negotiated the NIP, no? So why did he sign the NIP?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 16, 2021 15:44:02 GMT
but it will have to be revisited because one of its key premises is now false. Except:- 1. Lots of people pointed out the contradictions and complexities involved in NI and Brexit. 2. We were assured by Johnson, Davis, Cummings Frost et al that NI and the border wouldn't be a problem (along with the oven ready trade deal etc), which was obviously nonsense at the time, but that was the message pedalled. And the people point out the issues were hit with the trite "Project Fear" label again. 3. The NIP was negotiated, agreed and signed by Jonhson's government ahead of our withdrawal from the EU precisely because the EU knew that NI and the GFA were going to be problematic. 4. Johnson (and his government, and the normal crowd of et al) now want to tear it up. Because, durr, "it doesn't work" (subtext for the Tories and the Unionists). If (and I am not sure that I agree) one its key premises "is now false", it would still have been false when Johnson negotiated the NIP, no?
So why did he sign the NIP? Well the premise in question being in or out of the EU and that's clearly changed. I'm guessing that Johnson also didn't/doesn't want to be the first to say we have to open up the GF agreement. He may well have signed the protocol just to get a basic agreement for the rest of the UK asap and kick the NI can down the road.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Oct 16, 2021 16:18:37 GMT
Rather a flippant approach to international law / treaties, wouldn't you say?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 16, 2021 16:59:02 GMT
Except:- 1. Lots of people pointed out the contradictions and complexities involved in NI and Brexit. 2. We were assured by Johnson, Davis, Cummings Frost et al that NI and the border wouldn't be a problem (along with the oven ready trade deal etc), which was obviously nonsense at the time, but that was the message pedalled. And the people point out the issues were hit with the trite "Project Fear" label again. 3. The NIP was negotiated, agreed and signed by Jonhson's government ahead of our withdrawal from the EU precisely because the EU knew that NI and the GFA were going to be problematic. 4. Johnson (and his government, and the normal crowd of et al) now want to tear it up. Because, durr, "it doesn't work" (subtext for the Tories and the Unionists). If (and I am not sure that I agree) one its key premises "is now false", it would still have been false when Johnson negotiated the NIP, no?
So why did he sign the NIP? Well the premise in question being in or out of the EU and that's clearly changed. I'm guessing that Johnson also didn't/doesn't want to be the first to say we have to open up the GF agreement. He may well have signed the protocol just to get a basic agreement for the rest of the UK asap and kick the NI can down the road. Not so much the EU, as the SM/CU. There were only ever four choices available once May drew the red lines and ruled out continued post-Brexit SM/CU membership. 1. Break the GFA by putting the SM/CU border down the national border. 2. Sea border, leaving NI in SM/CU. 3. Break the red lines, get "BRINO" shouted. 4. Irish reunification. May's backstop was a temporary shenanigan of a hand-wave around 2 if the technology allowed, but which would have seen 3 if nothing else magically arrived - www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/irish-backstopThe ERG voted down May's deal, delayed Brexit, and then loudly voted up Johnson's "oven-ready" deal. The only substantive difference between May's and Johnson's deals was the backstop replaced by the protocol, which is definitely and unreservedly 2. So for Frost to now say that the protocol is a bad thing... <shakes head>
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 16, 2021 16:59:31 GMT
Rather a flippant approach to international law / treaties, wouldn't you say? That appears to be government policy.
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