michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,710
Likes: 2,985
|
Post by michaelc on Oct 19, 2021 12:39:49 GMT
Ask the Unionists. As for the Falklands look at where it is for God's sake ! What business did we have settling people there? But what's done is done so now we're in this mess and not sure how to get out of it. Multiple different countries settled people all over the place, and not just the various colonial empires. How come the language of Brazil is Portuguese ? Or that the language of Quebec is French ? Or the Spanish in south america (except Brazil) ? I would mention the (pretty awful) territories of the prior Belgium empire, but since they can't even decide on a language to use within their home country I'll leave it out. Even the small collection of islands known as the Falkland Islands have a pretty chequered history. But at least in the case of Britain's last settlement there, it was not entirely but nearly unoccupied, and there was an earlier claim on it through prior settlement. None of which is to say we should be hanging on to it in today's world, but its current populace are somewhat wedded to being under the British umbrella, and not under the rule of a country which is a perennial economic basket case with a semi-detached relationship with functioning democracy. "The English navigator John Davis in the Desire may have been the first person to sight the Falklands, in 1592, but it was the Dutchman Sebald de Weerdt who made the first undisputed sighting of them about 1600. The English captain John Strong made the first recorded landing in the Falklands, in 1690, and named the sound between the two main islands after Viscount Falkland, a British naval official. The name was later applied to the whole island group. The French navigator Louis-Antoine de Bougainville founded the islands’ first settlement, on East Falkland, in 1764, and he named the islands the Malovines. The British, in 1765, were the first to settle West Falkland, but they were driven off in 1770 by the Spanish, who had bought out the French settlement about 1767. The British outpost on West Falkland was restored in 1771 after threat of war, but then the British withdrew from the island in 1774 for reasons of economy, without renouncing their claim to the Falklands. Spain maintained a settlement on East Falkland (which it called Soledad Island) until 1811.
In 1820 the Buenos Aires government, which had declared its independence from Spain in 1816, proclaimed its sovereignty over the Falklands. In 1831 the U.S. warship Lexington destroyed the Argentine settlement on East Falkland in reprisal for the arrest of three U.S. ships that had been hunting seals in the area. In early 1833 a British force expelled the few remaining Argentine officials from the island without firing a shot. In 1841 a British civilian lieutenant governor was appointed for the Falklands, and by 1885 a British community of some 1,800 people on the islands was self-supporting. Argentina regularly protested Britain’s occupation of the islands."Don't agree with all but some good points well made there. Certainly its complicated.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,048
Likes: 4,438
|
Post by agent69 on Oct 19, 2021 12:47:25 GMT
Not sure what the Falklands have to do with it, a very small population that has been British for a long time. Irish people Catholic or Protestant get on well generally my family roots are both! People stirring up hatred is the problem which hopefully is getting less. These days I really don't see why a United Ireland couldn't happen. Ask the Unionists. As for the Falklands look at where it is for God's sake ! What business did we have settling people there? But what's done is done so now we're in this mess and not sure how to get out of it. I think it was called empire building (which was quite popular in the day).
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,330
Likes: 11,549
|
Post by ilmoro on Oct 19, 2021 13:11:03 GMT
Ask the Unionists. As for the Falklands look at where it is for God's sake ! What business did we have settling people there? But what's done is done so now we're in this mess and not sure how to get out of it. I think it was called empire building (which was quite popular in the day).
And the proceeding 3000 years. I mean what business did Ali G have parking his arse in India, the Mongols in Europe or the Arabs in Spain. I know a bit nearer than the Falklands but then not so good at boats in those days.
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,385
Likes: 2,784
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 19, 2021 13:56:34 GMT
I think it was called empire building (which was quite popular in the day).
And the proceeding 3000 years. I mean what business did Ali G have parking his arse in India, the Mongols in Europe or the Arabs in Spain. I know a bit nearer than the Falklands but then not so good at boats in those days. Well they think the Vikings got to America!
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,048
Likes: 4,438
|
Post by agent69 on Oct 19, 2021 14:40:48 GMT
And the proceeding 3000 years. I mean what business did Ali G have parking his arse in India, the Mongols in Europe or the Arabs in Spain. I know a bit nearer than the Falklands but then not so good at boats in those days. Well they think the Vikings got to America! Getting back to Brexit, it does appear that the EU are making things in NI more difficult than they need to be.
A media commentator on Sky news last week was looking at checks that EU countries require to be carried out on goods entering the EU from non EU sources. Of all of the checks carried out by the 27 EU countries, 25% relate to Northern Ireland.
|
|
toffeeboy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 538
Likes: 385
|
Post by toffeeboy on Oct 19, 2021 15:16:01 GMT
What do you think this "hard border" is? Someone checking goods crossing the border. Why what do you think a hard border is?
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,019
Likes: 5,147
|
Post by adrianc on Oct 19, 2021 15:27:55 GMT
What do you think this "hard border" is? Someone checking goods crossing the border. Why what do you think a hard border is? OK, great. So you can see why it's kinda necessary, right? I mean, obvs it doesn't have to be EVERY load and it's not exactly rolls of barbed wire and fierce dogs...
|
|
keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 4,594
Likes: 2,624
|
Post by keitha on Oct 19, 2021 15:32:32 GMT
Maybe we should invade France and grab all their cheap electric, 2 issue solved at once
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,330
Likes: 11,549
|
Post by ilmoro on Oct 19, 2021 16:08:06 GMT
Someone checking goods crossing the border. Why what do you think a hard border is? OK, great. So you can see why it's kinda necessary, right? I mean, obvs it doesn't have to be EVERY load and it's not exactly rolls of barbed wire and fierce dogs... But it does have to be the right colour pen
|
|
Steerpike
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,977
Likes: 1,687
|
Post by Steerpike on Oct 19, 2021 16:24:53 GMT
Maybe we should invade France and grab all their cheap electric, 2 issue solved at once Good idea, as long as the French agree to store and defend all the nuclear waste for the next 10,000 years or so.
|
|
toffeeboy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 538
Likes: 385
|
Post by toffeeboy on Oct 20, 2021 9:52:58 GMT
Someone checking goods crossing the border. Why what do you think a hard border is? OK, great. So you can see why it's kinda necessary, right? I mean, obvs it doesn't have to be EVERY load and it's not exactly rolls of barbed wire and fierce dogs... No I don't, as I said before I am sure there are many other options that could be used. I am not in the loop at all on that so am only assuming that there are. Traffic cameras, weighbridges (might be considered hard border), checks at loading. How much smuggling happens nowadays? Obviously drugs and weapons but then they are illegal so aren't an issue, is there much other smuggling that happens. The issue is that the EU can't even explore these options as their regulations say that there must be a hard border. Is it allowed to be a hard border one way and not the other I wonder? That would draw some interesting comments I'm sure, let the EU police their side and UK leave the other way open relying on other methods.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,019
Likes: 5,147
|
Post by adrianc on Oct 20, 2021 10:01:13 GMT
OK, great. So you can see why it's kinda necessary, right? I mean, obvs it doesn't have to be EVERY load and it's not exactly rolls of barbed wire and fierce dogs... No I don't, as I said before I am sure there are many other options that could be used. I am not in the loop at all on that so am only assuming that there are. Ah, the much-vaunted "technological solutions"... I remember those... A reminder of the last time this silliness was waved around, two and a bit years ago : committees.parliament.uk/committee/120/northern-ireland-affairs-committee/news/103769/technological-solutions-to-ni-border-examined/www.france24.com/en/20190208-brexit-technology-ireland-may-barnier-northern-border-uk-may-dupnews.sky.com/story/technological-solution-to-irish-border-issue-could-be-a-decade-away-says-home-office-document-11696337www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-48772409www.civilserviceworld.com/professions/article/tech-solution-to-irish-border-wont-be-ready-until-2030-home-office-warnsThat was all in the context of May's Backstop - which the ERG hated so much they actively caused the delay of Brexit because of it, in favour of... the Frost/Johnson "oven-ready" NI Protocol. Of course, those "technological methods" would still be being used to cover a border between RoI and NI, "hard" in terms of movement of goods, in breach of the GFA.
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 6,437
|
Post by registerme on Oct 20, 2021 10:27:35 GMT
I mean Boris is such an authority on anything technical that you know he's been on the whacky baccy again when he starts talking about such things.
|
|
|
Post by captainconfident on Oct 20, 2021 18:12:07 GMT
Well they think the Vikings got to America! Getting back to Brexit, it does appear that the EU are making things in NI more difficult than they need to be.
A media commentator on Sky news last week was looking at checks that EU countries require to be carried out on goods entering the EU from non EU sources. Of all of the checks carried out by the 27 EU countries, 25% relate to Northern Ireland.
chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/p/new-october-2021-excuses-myths-and-lies.htmlf. that the EU wrecked the NIP by applying a disproportionate number of checks to the Irish Sea border, often quoted as 20% of all EU border checks, relative to the size of the NI economy. Comment: This is because of the unique situation of there being multiple dense supply chains between GB and NI, and the fact that unlike most EU border goods flows it is in mixed loads. In any case a) the extent of what was entailed was fully spelt out in the Annexe to the NIP, so the UK agreed to it, b) the latest EU proposals would substantially reduce this, c) the government and Brexiters oscillate between claiming the problems of the NIP are those of implementation (as in this case) and those of principle.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,019
Likes: 5,147
|
Post by adrianc on Oct 20, 2021 18:17:29 GMT
Getting back to Brexit, it does appear that the EU are making things in NI more difficult than they need to be.
A media commentator on Sky news last week was looking at checks that EU countries require to be carried out on goods entering the EU from non EU sources. Of all of the checks carried out by the 27 EU countries, 25% relate to Northern Ireland.
chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/p/new-october-2021-excuses-myths-and-lies.htmlf. that the EU wrecked the NIP by applying a disproportionate number of checks to the Irish Sea border, often quoted as 20% of all EU border checks, relative to the size of the NI economy. Comment: This is because of the unique situation of there being multiple dense supply chains between GB and NI, and the fact that unlike most EU border goods flows it is in mixed loads. In any case a) the extent of what was entailed was fully spelt out in the Annexe to the NIP, so the UK agreed to it, b) the latest EU proposals would substantially reduce this, c) the government and Brexiters oscillate between claiming the problems of the NIP are those of implementation (as in this case) and those of principle. c. that, in any case, international law is subservient to Parliamentary sovereignty.<shudder> We all know the gov't believes this one wholeheartedly...
|
|