adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,012
Likes: 4,824
|
Post by adrianc on Nov 22, 2020 15:25:44 GMT
dan1 of course. Nothing new there. And that's what I find the most depressing aspect of this whole affair, that truly there has been nothing new since 2016. As per our response to Covid-19 we're just living through a slow motion car crash - we can see where we're headed but we're powerless to alter the course of events. The really depressing thing is that this one's TOTALLY self-inflicted...
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,012
Likes: 4,824
|
Post by adrianc on Nov 22, 2020 15:32:06 GMT
Anyway, I'm not sure whether or not I like the idea of a European Civil Service. I suppose firstly, I don't think it's the civil service's role to harmonise morality. If anything that would be the ongoing job of the Government, with Trump's last 4 years doing that in spades (brilliant very long article on that here btw). Secondly, it would just be a practical absolute nightmare. We have a European civil service - the European Commission. It was founded in 1967, 7yrs before the UK joined the EEC, but existed in various forms right from the Treaty of Paris in 1951. The relevant part of its job is to deliver what the government decides, same as the civil service in the UK...
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,894
Likes: 2,768
|
Post by michaelc on Nov 22, 2020 15:37:54 GMT
Anyway, I'm not sure whether or not I like the idea of a European Civil Service. I suppose firstly, I don't think it's the civil service's role to harmonise morality. If anything that would be the ongoing job of the Government, with Trump's last 4 years doing that in spades (brilliant very long article on that here btw). Secondly, it would just be a practical absolute nightmare. We have a European civil service - the European Commission. It was founded in 1967, 7yrs before the UK joined the EEC, but existed in various forms right from the Treaty of Paris in 1951. The relevant part of its job is to deliver what the government decides, same as the civil service in the UK... No they are not the same as our civil service for numerous reasons. One is that they are effectively the government - the executive branch if you will.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,012
Likes: 4,824
|
Post by adrianc on Nov 22, 2020 15:44:38 GMT
We have a European civil service - the European Commission. It was founded in 1967, 7yrs before the UK joined the EEC, but existed in various forms right from the Treaty of Paris in 1951. The relevant part of its job is to deliver what the government decides, same as the civil service in the UK... No they are not the same as our civil service for numerous reasons. One is that they are effectively the government - the executive branch if you will. The commission is two things. It's the college of commissioners - the 27 commissioners, one per country - the exec branch, the "ministers". And it's the civil service. "The government" is the parliament.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,624
Likes: 4,194
|
Post by agent69 on Nov 22, 2020 15:48:59 GMT
And that's what I find the most depressing aspect of this whole affair, that truly there has been nothing new since 2016. As per our response to Covid-19 we're just living through a slow motion car crash - we can see where we're headed but we're powerless to alter the course of events. The really depressing thing is that this one's TOTALLY self-inflicted... As is the case in France, Belgium, Italy and Spain?
We are not alone
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 10,875
Likes: 11,098
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 22, 2020 16:08:11 GMT
No they are not the same as our civil service for numerous reasons. One is that they are effectively the government - the executive branch if you will. The commission is two things. It's the college of commissioners - the 27 commissioners, one per country - the exec branch, the "ministers". And it's the civil service. "The government" is the parliament. Surely the government is the body that proposes legislation, policy, represents the EU abroad, controls the budget etc ... that is the Commission The Parliament is the legislature, though unlike a national Parliament it has no powers to propose legislation.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,012
Likes: 4,824
|
Post by adrianc on Nov 22, 2020 16:46:13 GMT
...though unlike a national Parliament it has no powers to propose legislation. Have you ever looked to see how few private members' bills make it through to law?
|
|
mrk
Posts: 807
Likes: 753
|
Post by mrk on Nov 22, 2020 18:35:59 GMT
Surely the government is the body that proposes legislation, policy, represents the EU abroad, controls the budget etc ... that is the Commission It's just a bit different from a national government in that the political agenda is set by the Council, not by the Commission.
|
|
|
Post by captainconfident on Nov 22, 2020 20:08:45 GMT
Anyway, I'm not sure whether or not I like the idea of a European Civil Service. I suppose firstly, I don't think it's the civil service's role to harmonise morality. If anything that would be the ongoing job of the Government, with Trump's last 4 years doing that in spades (brilliant very long article on that here btw). very long article is a great read. Well worth the time. Thanks very much for the reference r00lish67.
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,212
Likes: 6,021
|
Post by registerme on Nov 22, 2020 20:25:44 GMT
This made me laugh - a UK government ad on Facebook, it's a "come hither" to EU citizens to work in the UK after Brexit.... Seen on his FB feed by an Austrian policeman friend of mine. You couldn't make it up.
|
|
|
Post by captainconfident on Nov 22, 2020 22:03:32 GMT
This made me laugh - a UK government ad on Facebook, it's a "come hither" to EU citizens to work in the UK after Brexit.... Seen on his FB feed by an Austrian policeman friend of mine. You couldn't make it up. We will invite them on the beaches.
|
|
james100
Member of DD Central
Posts: 992
Likes: 1,197
|
Post by james100 on Nov 23, 2020 9:29:58 GMT
This made me laugh - a UK government ad on Facebook, it's a "come hither" to EU citizens to work in the UK after Brexit.... Seen on his FB feed by an Austrian policeman friend of mine. You couldn't make it up. Looking forward to the will-of-the-people reaction when our government has to create an equivalent to the Dutch 30% tax ruling for skilled expats (giving an bonus 30% of gross salary tax allowance for 5 years in order to attract specialists; it was 35% for 10 years when I lived there!). Because they will need to think up something to get the kind of people here who can chose where they live and - shock - may not be so enamored by the whole anti-immigration spiel. Edit: it's almost like they have just realised we really need immigrants and the investment required to develop new industries and associated workforce organically would take 10+ years to filter through to meaningful change (not that the investment will actually be made anyway). LOVE the laughing/crying emoticons on that post.
|
|
r00lish67
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,691
Likes: 4,048
|
Post by r00lish67 on Nov 25, 2020 23:30:55 GMT
I've just been having a look around to see how things are going on this front, as to be honest I haven't really noticed much about it of late in the press. What I found was similar to before. Customs brokers flagging issues, freight forwarders trying to raise problems, the French doing a trial that caused a 5 mile queue (but actually worse news is that we haven't even finished our system, never mind trialled it. It's my impression though that the Government and most of the UK press are still loathed to even mention it. Tom Peck covering off that angle very well in more of a poignant piece rather than his usual satire. ".... stuck in a politics in which we don’t have the courage to tell ourselves the truth. Ignore the lies and they’ll just go away. There’s precious little point anguishing over it anymore. It is all as inevitable as it is imminent. But it is worth noting that in the final few moments before the victors had even received their prize, they decided they could not even bring themselves to talk about it"Perhaps the stuff I found is all of the usual anti-Brexit people and left wing media just doing what they do, I'm certainly not claiming this is all unbiased stuff, but I have to say that if so they're going well out of their way to look very silly in a pretty short amount of time if it's all fine. Personally I still wonder if there are some "tolerances" built into any forthcoming deal to allow for some of these issues to be further mitigated. Otherwise, again unless all of these people are just talking nonsense, then I'm not quite sure why the Govt. aren't panicking more, and why the press seem to have little interest.
|
|
|
Post by martin44 on Nov 25, 2020 23:40:42 GMT
I've just been having a look around to see how things are going on this front, as to be honest I haven't really noticed much about it of late in the press. What I found was similar to before. Customs brokers flagging issues, freight forwarders trying to raise problems, the French doing a trial that caused a 5 mile queue (but actually worse news is that we haven't even finished our system, never mind trialled it. It's my impression though that the Government and most of the UK press are still loathed to even mention it. Tom Peck covering off that angle very well in more of a poignant piece rather than his usual satire. ".... stuck in a politics in which we don’t have the courage to tell ourselves the truth. Ignore the lies and they’ll just go away. There’s precious little point anguishing over it anymore. It is all as inevitable as it is imminent. But it is worth noting that in the final few moments before the victors had even received their prize, they decided they could not even bring themselves to talk about it"Perhaps the stuff I found is all of the usual anti-Brexit people and left wing media just doing what they do, I'm certainly not claiming this is all unbiased stuff, but I have to say that if so they're going well out of their way to look very silly in a pretty short amount of time if it's all fine. Personally I still wonder if there are some "tolerances" built into any forthcoming deal to allow for some of these issues to be further mitigated. Otherwise, again unless all of these people are just talking nonsense, then I'm not quite sure why the Govt. aren't panicking more, and why the press seem to have little interest. Despite all the talk and all the rhetoric ... the result will be what was always planned, we will leave with a deal. edit... bolded will
|
|
r00lish67
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,691
Likes: 4,048
|
Post by r00lish67 on Nov 25, 2020 23:44:53 GMT
Despite all the talk and all the rhetoric ... the result will be what was always planned, we will leave with a deal. You may be right, but most of the above isn't about no deal. Most of the people forecasting all of the doom are saying the things they're saying about the scenario in which we do get a deal. edit: A theme I see running through many of the hauliers/freight people, and I obviously don't claim to understand the full ins and out of this, is that there seems to be an underlying assumption that just because it will be technically possible to continue to run their businesses to and from the UK, that they will do that. When, in reality, many parts of the chain have a choice. Just as companies much prefer sending goods now within the EU rather than to the Ukraine and Serbia because of the difficulty of doing that, so I think (even after all the dust settles) that will be the case with us. A difficult option necessitating a premium, that might even then not be considered worth the bother.
|
|