adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 11, 2021 13:14:33 GMT
Do you honestly think this is ALL the fault of the EU? Do you really believe that? Do you not think the UK persistently threatening the EU has not had consequences. Look, I'm sure the EU are having fun at our expense but please, can you not for once just own your decision? Why do you excuse them so easily for invoking that nuclear option? And can you expand a little on the UK persistently threatening the EU, because I must have missed that! At least we agree the EU are having fun at our expense. Confiscating ham sandwiches from our lorry drivers included. You've missed the last four and a half years? Because they've been ENTIRELY the UK "threatening" the EU. The EU has been the grown-ups in the room throughout the negotiations. They said all along "Pick what sort of relationship you want" - and we did. As for "the nuclear option" - do you mean A16? Which the EU talked about, then very quickly withdrew and apologised? www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0210/1196152-coronavirus-vaccine/(When did Johnson last apologise for ANYTHING?) And that was two weeks after Boris Johnson agreed with the DUP that it should be invoked... www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/watch-we-will-have-no-hesitation-in-triggering-article-16-if-necessary-says-boris-johnson-39964412.htmlAnd Arlene Foster has since launched a petition insisting it be triggered... petition.parliament.uk/petitions/573209That land border to the single market had to go somewhere. NI/GB or NI/RoI. Boris made the choice, nobody else. Break the Good Friday or annoy the DUP. And as for the ham sandwches, yes... that's the law. No personal imports of meat products from third countries. Did that come as a surprise? It shouldn't have. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55622331Remember, the UK was very heavily involved in the writing of the "third country" rules that... NOW APPLY TO THE UK... because the UK WANTED them to. It was the will of the people. You won. Congratulations. Own it... Don't you like what you won? Well, you were warned. But you shouted the warnings down as "project fear", and preferred to believe a lie on a bus. So Brexiteers got us here. How do you plan to get us out of it? Or should we just learn to love isolation?
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Post by captainconfident on Feb 11, 2021 13:15:57 GMT
Trade is not a game, where countries have a duty to be 'nice' to each other. If the UK did badly in negotiations it's because they chose to play a poor hand badly. I think I can speak for my fellow Europeans, and they all think that the UK has set other EU countries an example. An example of what happens if weak democratic systems and the media power of certain rich individuals can lead a country to make itself poorer, less influential and irrelevant as a world power. Or do you think that the UK is providing an inspiring example? Indeed I agree we have set a great example to the EU27. They are incredibly frustrated that having thrown off the shackles that tie them all to the slowest country's decision-making, we have been able to leap streets ahead in the race to vaccinate our people. That Brexiteer bollox does not take a second to look up and dismiss. If Britain was still an EU country it could have done exactly the same vaccination programme. There was no EU rule requiring it to join the EU procurement programme. Hungary and others set their own course and made their own orders. The only plus point you can think of for Brexit turns out toi be nothing. Can't address my previous question? Their citizens are green with envy are they?
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Post by dan1 on Feb 11, 2021 13:16:09 GMT
The EU has stopped playing nicely!?!?! The lack of self-awareness is just astonishing. After numerous threats by the UK including 'perfidious Albion on speed' to sabotage the EU from within, breaking international law over NI, using gunships against foreign fishermen, and god knows how many others... ... is it REALLY a surprise that our trading partners don't really think very highly of us?? Merely our responses to EU threats to delay or frustrate Brexit. The difference is, we never carried them out. They DID invoke article 16 on a whim, yet some can just airbrush it out! Navy guarding your territorial waters is perfectly standard. Iceland rightly did the same. Quite frankly who cares about petty parochial disputes? What people want to know is how are these issues going to be resolved to save peoples jobs and livelihoods? Ideology doesn't pay the bills, put food on the table, drive economic growth to be able to improve the quality of life, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 13:16:58 GMT
Merely our responses to EU threats to delay or frustrate Brexit. The difference is, we never carried them out. They DID invoke article 16 on a whim, yet some can just airbrush it out! Navy guarding your territorial waters is perfectly standard. Iceland rightly did the same. And the EU looking after their own trade interests is perfectly standard. Especially since now, all they have to do is wait, and watch UK business forced to relocate jobs and operations to the EU. We are outside the EU, which is what you wanted. After our behaviour, the EU owes us precisely zero goodwill, and has a golden opportunity to steal our business thanks to the incompetence of Brexit negotiators.
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Post by bernythedolt on Feb 11, 2021 13:21:59 GMT
Why do you excuse them so easily for invoking that nuclear option? And can you expand a little on the UK persistently threatening the EU, because I must have missed that! At least we agree the EU are having fun at our expense. Confiscating ham sandwiches from our lorry drivers included. Look, you miss the point, this is not about tit for tat of "he said this, she said that" kind of, well, quite frankly ![>:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/superangry.png) . It's about how the UK-EU relationship proceeds from here. How do we resolve our differences because with your attitude we're heading into decades long period of trade disputes being referred for arbitration and that will kill UK-EU trade. A little less of nationalist tub thumping so prevalent in The Telegraph, Mail, Express and bit more reconciliation. Blaming the EU for every downside will get you knowhere except further division in UK society - perhaps that's what you want, I don't know. That won't happen. The EU will not cut off their nose to spite their face. Like you, I'd like to see an adult relationship, with respect on both sides. With players like Macron involved, that may take a while though...
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Post by bernythedolt on Feb 11, 2021 13:35:35 GMT
Indeed I agree we have set a great example to the EU27. They are incredibly frustrated that having thrown off the shackles that tie them all to the slowest country's decision-making, we have been able to leap streets ahead in the race to vaccinate our people. That Brexiteer bollox does not take a second to look up and dismiss. If Britain was still an EU country it could have done exactly the same vaccination programme. There was no EU rule requiring it to join the EU procurement programme. Hungary and others set their own course and made their own orders. The only plus point you can think of for Brexit turns out toi be nothing. Can't address my previous question? Their citizens are green with envy are they? Your question was whether the UK was an inspiring example. I've offered one positive example. For the rest, we'll have to wait and see. It's far too early to judge.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 13:36:03 GMT
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Post by bernythedolt on Feb 11, 2021 13:39:40 GMT
Merely our responses to EU threats to delay or frustrate Brexit. The difference is, we never carried them out. They DID invoke article 16 on a whim, yet some can just airbrush it out! Navy guarding your territorial waters is perfectly standard. Iceland rightly did the same. And the EU looking after their own trade interests is perfectly standard. Especially since now, all they have to do is wait, and watch UK business forced to relocate jobs and operations to the EU. We are outside the EU, which is what you wanted. After our behaviour, the EU owes us precisely zero goodwill, and has a golden opportunity to steal our business thanks to the incompetence of Brexit negotiators. Apparently it's not all one-way traffic... dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2020/01/more-than-1000-eu-firms-plan-first-uk-office-after-brexit/
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adrianc
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrianc on Feb 11, 2021 13:42:20 GMT
And the EU looking after their own trade interests is perfectly standard. Especially since now, all they have to do is wait, and watch UK business forced to relocate jobs and operations to the EU. We are outside the EU, which is what you wanted. After our behaviour, the EU owes us precisely zero goodwill, and has a golden opportunity to steal our business thanks to the incompetence of Brexit negotiators. Apparently it's not all one-way traffic... dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2020/01/more-than-1000-eu-firms-plan-first-uk-office-after-brexit/Yes, companies who want to work on both sides of the channel need two offices now. So they're having to open a local branch office to run their UK business through, because it's unworkable trying to do it the other way. Meanwhile, all those UK-based offices that ran EU/EEA business from the European financial centre of the City of London have shrunk their UK presence back to local branch offices...
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adrianc
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrianc on Feb 11, 2021 13:45:12 GMT
That Brexiteer bollox does not take a second to look up and dismiss. If Britain was still an EU country it could have done exactly the same vaccination programme. There was no EU rule requiring it to join the EU procurement programme. Hungary and others set their own course and made their own orders. The only plus point you can think of for Brexit turns out toi be nothing. Can't address my previous question? Their citizens are green with envy are they? Your question was whether the UK was an inspiring example. I've offered one positive example. For the rest, we'll have to wait and see. It's far too early to judge. But this "inspiring example" is nothing of the kind - because it's not only something WE COULD ALREADY DO, it's something we DID do before the 1st Jan, when we were still subject to the EU rules... Remember, whilst we actually left at the end of Jan last year, it was only at the start of last month that anything actually changed in what we could and could not do. Even then, there's transitions in place. Three months on the GB/NI border - and Gove has already applied to extend it to three years, because of the chaos before it's even fully implemented... www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/03/northern-ireland-uk-asks-eu-to-extend-grace-periods-on-brexit-checks
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Post by captainconfident on Feb 11, 2021 13:53:15 GMT
That Brexiteer bollox does not take a second to look up and dismiss. If Britain was still an EU country it could have done exactly the same vaccination programme. There was no EU rule requiring it to join the EU procurement programme. Hungary and others set their own course and made their own orders. The only plus point you can think of for Brexit turns out toi be nothing. Can't address my previous question? Their citizens are green with envy are they? Your question was whether the UK was an inspiring example. I've offered one positive example. For the rest, we'll have to wait and see. It's far too early to judge. You have given one inspiring example, but I hope we agree that on examination, it was nothing to do with Brexit. As for it being too early to judge whether Brewxit will boost the incomes and happiness of the British, there are no positive signs. You are able to remain in denial because there is a time lag between the damage being caused and the damage being felt.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 11, 2021 13:54:14 GMT
What happened to that notion of "smart borders" (or whatever it was called) being bandied about by Johnson, Grove and others?
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Post by bernythedolt on Feb 11, 2021 13:59:06 GMT
Your question was whether the UK was an inspiring example. I've offered one positive example. For the rest, we'll have to wait and see. It's far too early to judge. But this "inspiring example" is nothing of the kind - because it's not only something WE COULD ALREADY DO, it's something we DID do before the 1st Jan, when we were still subject to the EU rules... Remember, whilst we actually left at the end of Jan last year, it was only at the start of last month that anything actually changed in what we could and could not do. Even then, there's transitions in place. Three months on the GB/NI border - and Gove has already applied to extend it to three years, because of the chaos before it's even fully implemented... www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/03/northern-ireland-uk-asks-eu-to-extend-grace-periods-on-brexit-checksIndeed, but an awful lot of influential voices were incensed that we didn't sign up to the EU collective purchasing arrangement. I'm inspired that we ignored them. Why are none of the other 27 alongside us in the vaccine rollout?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 11, 2021 14:09:41 GMT
But this "inspiring example" is nothing of the kind - because it's not only something WE COULD ALREADY DO, it's something we DID do before the 1st Jan, when we were still subject to the EU rules... Remember, whilst we actually left at the end of Jan last year, it was only at the start of last month that anything actually changed in what we could and could not do. Even then, there's transitions in place. Three months on the GB/NI border - and Gove has already applied to extend it to three years, because of the chaos before it's even fully implemented... www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/03/northern-ireland-uk-asks-eu-to-extend-grace-periods-on-brexit-checksIndeed, but an awful lot of influential voices were incensed that we didn't sign up to the EU collective purchasing arrangement. I'm inspired that we ignored them. Why are none of the other 27 alongside us in the vaccine rollout? We did this all already over in the Covid thread. Short version - pure luck in which ones we signed up to, without knowing what'd work and what wouldn't... and we're paying a LOT more for them. It wouldn't have taken a lot for it to go the other way.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 11, 2021 14:11:07 GMT
Add Kate Hoey to the list insisting that A16 be invoked, siding with her friends in the Brexit Party.
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