duck
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,864 
Likes: 6,898
|
Post by duck on Dec 11, 2014 6:30:28 GMT
[Victor Meldrew voice] "I don't believe it"
On opening 'my investments' the borrower 'name' (BOxxx) is no longer visible, you have to drill down into the loan and open the application.
Same applies if you want to check (say) your +60s or repaids, no more simple scroll down to find a particular loan it has to be a csv download to find a single borrower 'name'.
My spreadsheets are 'borrower name' based, does anybody use/remember loan numbers?
Bondora was already my 'highest time maintenance' site, I really didn't need this!
|
|
james
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 955
|
Post by james on Dec 11, 2014 14:49:12 GMT
I started to record the loan ID in my spreadsheets when Bondora messed up the renaming of account names to random ones even for users who hadn't requested it. I decided then that I couldn't trust Bondora keep the usernames around and consistent. Quite a dehumanising change for a peer system focused on lending to individuals.
I can believe it. I think that Bondora has recently been embarking on a follow a Zopa-like path, with the plan to switch to having the lender money paid to a bank so the bank can originate the loans and having banking practices used to price loans, while also having the objective of cutting interest rates for borrowers. Since I've seen this once it's just sad to see it happening again and I already know how I'll react. Same as I did before. I'm just working through the ID process so I can start running down my Bondora investment as loans are repaid.
Ah well. I wonder who'll be the next to forget what they were to try to get bigger.
|
|
duck
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,864
Likes: 6,898
|
Post by duck on Dec 12, 2014 7:37:09 GMT
Can't say I disagree with you James, 'dehumanising' is (IMHO) a very good word for what is going on.
I too saw the changes at zopa and I have been withdrawing for the past year or so (from whenever the big changes took place) ..... yet I have and still am a big supporter of RS which was 'dehumanised' from the start which has never been a problem for me since that was and is their business model.
One thing I have noticed with the new interface is the rating system being applied to long defaulted (+60 day) loans. Comparing 2 almost identical old A1000 defaults I was 'surprised' to see one at 'C' and one at 'HR' ...... not certain what bells should have been rung when I picked the HR loan and if that information was actually available for me to pick up on. HR certainly features well in my defaults 
|
|
james
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 955
|
Post by james on Dec 12, 2014 22:43:36 GMT
If I understand things correctly, the actions of the borrower on the platform will be incorporated into the rating, changing as that changes. So the original rating may only be available at the time of loan original offering by Bondora. So I initially assumed that a defaulted loan will inevitably be classed as HR even if it was originally classed as A.
I don't necessarily think that HR is correct, though, since collection probabilities vary. Still, I have some reservations about even a loan that was previously rated as the best available score, a 15% interest rate, was a C after default. I'd want to know that it was originally A as well as what it is now, in part because it seems clear that inaccurate default and collection rates are going to be used, averaged across all countries, say, rather than reflecting the clearly different performances of the countries.
|
|
duck
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,864
Likes: 6,898
|
Post by duck on Dec 13, 2014 5:35:20 GMT
Thanks for that James, I have a feeling I need to do some more reading! Wading and treacle spring to mind at present ......
|
|
parisingoc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 87
Likes: 25
|
Post by parisingoc on Dec 15, 2014 19:17:48 GMT
If I understand things correctly, the actions of the borrower on the platform will be incorporated into the rating, changing as that changes. So the original rating may only be available at the time of loan original offering by Bondora. So I initially assumed that a defaulted loan will inevitably be classed as HR even if it was originally classed as A. I don't necessarily think that HR is correct, though, since collection probabilities vary. Still, I have some reservations about even a loan that was previously rated as the best available score, a 15% interest rate, was a C after default. I'd want to know that it was originally A as well as what it is now, in part because it seems clear that inaccurate default and collection rates are going to be used, averaged across all countries, say, rather than reflecting the clearly different performances of the countries. I have just a little bit of sympathy for the Bondora team as my own amateur efforts at analysing the dataset and then using that as a guide to my investments shows that the picture does indeed change quite dramatically. As an example, I extolled the virtues of "retirees" in Spain about 8 weeks ago (zero defaults since started), and yet my latest analysis shows that the same grouping is now showing around a 16% default rate! Don't get me wrong - I also think the new interface is deplorable, tantamount to unusable for an "active" investor, unless you have professional coding skills.
|
|
starfished
Member of DD Central
Posts: 298 
Likes: 216
|
Post by starfished on Dec 31, 2014 11:24:36 GMT
Now that the stats page has been changed to show only by credit rating (rather than credit score as before, personally I think they should show both for at least a year) does anyone now how to get the CSV file when downloading your own investments to include credit rating yet? Thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by coolrunning on Jan 1, 2015 13:23:10 GMT
Now that the stats page has been changed to show only by credit rating (rather than credit score as before, personally I think they should show both for at least a year) does anyone now how to get the CSV file when downloading your own investments to include credit rating yet? Thanks Good question. Do the new Bondora ratings (the AA to HR ones) appear anywhere in the CSVs or datasets?
|
|
duck
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,864
Likes: 6,898
|
Post by duck on Jan 1, 2015 16:38:15 GMT
Now that the stats page has been changed to show only by credit rating (rather than credit score as before, personally I think they should show both for at least a year) does anyone now how to get the CSV file when downloading your own investments to include credit rating yet? Thanks Good question. Do the new Bondora ratings (the AA to HR ones) appear anywhere in the CSVs or datasets? I'm in the process of adding the ratings to my spreadsheets. I went to my investments filtered for what I wanted A, B etc and then took a csv of that filtered dataset ..... worked for what I wanted.
|
|
|
|
Post by coolrunning on Jan 2, 2015 10:12:47 GMT
Good question. Do the new Bondora ratings (the AA to HR ones) appear anywhere in the CSVs or datasets? I'm in the process of adding the ratings to my spreadsheets. I went to my investments filtered for what I wanted A, B etc and then took a csv of that filtered dataset ..... worked for what I wanted.
Thanks Duck But it does seem a lot of extra work. Bondora should put these ratings in the datasets or in the CSVs Or am I too optimistic?
|
|
|
|
Post by wiseclerk on Jan 2, 2015 10:30:37 GMT
|
|
duck
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,864
Likes: 6,898
|
Post by duck on Jan 3, 2015 5:37:43 GMT
Accepting that the new interface is here and the choice now is to invest manually (what is left over) or use a new Portfolio Manager I decided yesterday to set one up (knowing I could stop it) and run it for 1 day.
A few observations I tried to set is so the return is about what I am currently receiving - I did this by juggling the % allocation to the Bondora Ratings.
It quickly became clear that to maintain return I would have to accept a high % of E F & HR loans (settled on 10% E, 15% F & 30% HR) - this sounds horrible but I'm currently (manually) putting the new rating against all my old loans and I was surprised how many outwardly OK loans are rated HR.
On setting the Portfolio Manager I found the 'Your Current Allocation' line particularly unhelpful ...... it gives %'s which I don't believe match my current loan book (see previous point) and call me old fashioned but I like the idea that you go up to 100% and then stop. My current 'total' is 3722% (if you add them together) or if taken individually I hold 1162% in one risk band!
I set lending to 5 Euros for each band to 'ensure' that I wouldn't fill one risk band before the day was out. Another 'annoyance' was that if you set all the lending limits to what you want and then change a % for one of the risk bands (to try and adjust the defaults/return) your limits are deleted and auto values are added. In my case HR limits went to 40 Euros while A stayed at 5 Euros ....... not the best way to try to minimise losses when you consider HR has an expected loss rate of 44.58%!
So what did I get
36 new loans 10 Estonia 11 Finland 15 Spain
As I had stopped lending to Spain some time ago I wasn't happy about that. 20 male / 14 female / 2 NA
In old credit rating terms 27 A 1000 4 B 1000 1 B 600 3 C 1000 1 C 600
In Bondora ratings these loans 1 A 2 B 4 C 7 D 6 E 3 F 13 HR
Rates 4 below 20% 7 20-25% 1 25-30% 11 30-35% 1 35-40% 3 40-45% 4 50-60% 4 at 73.73% 1 at 92.69%
I'm not happy with the very high rates - yes you can do as much numerical manipulation as you like, but out there is somebody who has 'accepted' what I view as an unethically high rate. Ironically my 'test day' was the same day that Pay Day Lenders in the UK had new 'restrictions' imposed on them.
Now that I have some 'new system loans' which are clearly identified on my spreadsheets I will be monitoring them closely. First re-payments due 03/02/15.
|
|
JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 897
|
Post by JamesFrance on Jan 3, 2015 8:56:42 GMT
duck are you referring to bids or actual loans?
I had a good look at the market and I don't think the profiles ran at all until about 6.30pm. Many of the loan offers look as if they won't complete, unless a lot of other people activate the managers in the next few days.
As Wiseclerk pointed out you can select loans on the market using the country filter, but there was only one yesterday that I invested in. Whether there were loans which never reached the market because they were full I don't know yet.
My old profile managers did nothing yesterday although they should be active.
|
|
duck
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,864
Likes: 6,898
|
Post by duck on Jan 3, 2015 10:19:48 GMT
jamesfrance
Actual loans, I've just logged in and all are still 'green blobbed' so whilst 1 or 2 might loose their colour any more would be unusual in my experience.
My first actual loans from the profile are timed at 12.01 (mid-day) so what you saw was probably a second run of the profiles. I had a second batch of 'reserved' between 18.40 and 19.00 with the loans appearing on the account download at times throughout the day.
My old profiles had been 'archived' before yesterday and I was wondering why ................. my logical conclusion was that I made the 'mistake' of looking at the new profile manager and had a play with a few numbers. I didn't save anything but next time I logged on I was 'archived'.
I have to say manual investing is appealing (I've been doing it on top of my profiles to avoid Spanish and Slovakian exposure for some time) but it is very time consuming especially when you have a fair amount coming in each day. I need to get to the end of my exercise of adding Bondora ratings to my old loans to be able to make a vaguely 'educated' guess about the new ratings but what is very clear already is that my 'old' loans from over a year ago are on average much higher rated (A, B) than those from the last 6 months - even the +60 day loans.
|
|
