moonraker
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Post by moonraker on Nov 18, 2020 13:46:27 GMT
My current will names the solicitors who drew it up 20 years ago as my executors (along with my cousin and a friend). Is this a Good Thing?
Typically, searching the Web leads both to firms' websites suggesting that it's an absolutely splendid idea and to some horror stories. Indeed, it was a friend yesterday who had had a bad experience who recommended that executors from within the family should be left to choose a solicitor after I die.
One advantage is that they could then compare current fees and perhaps select a solicitor known to them. On the other hand it could be that they might appoint a crony of theirs who might act in their interests. Very unlikely in my case and I do not for one moment suggest that there's such a person as a dishonest solicitor. It might also be that an executor thinks (s)he can carry out probate without professional help, thus saving fees - or getting in a pickle - and again there's the chance of them exploiting their position.
Another advantage is that should both my "family executors" die and I do not have a chance to appoint replacements, then having named a solicitor as an executor provides a fallback position.
Thoughts, please.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 18, 2020 14:02:59 GMT
No, it's a terrible thing.
And, yes, solicitors may well pitch it as a great thing... because they like the lucrative revenue.
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moonraker
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Post by moonraker on Nov 18, 2020 14:22:06 GMT
No, it's a terrible thing... Could you expand on this, please?
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Nov 18, 2020 14:57:55 GMT
Well, never say never but I'd least be very careful. Mainly for the reasons described here: Probate: avoid a final rip-off when sorting out your loved one's estatee.g. "Fees for what is known as "probate" – the process by which you obtain the rights to deal with a deceased person's affairs – can run into many thousands of pounds, and take months to complete. Yet unless a person's estate is large and complex, probate cases can be completed for as little as a few hundred pounds"Can you not just ask the solicitor to provide a full list of their charges so you can decide for yourself whether they represent good value? edit: appreciate it's not purely a financial decision. The article seems a good one in covering off the various aspects.
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moonraker
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Post by moonraker on Nov 18, 2020 15:57:52 GMT
Well, never say never but I'd least be very careful. Mainly for the reasons described here: Probate: avoid a final rip-off when sorting out your loved one's estatee.g. "Fees for what is known as "probate" – the process by which you obtain the rights to deal with a deceased person's affairs – can run into many thousands of pounds, and take months to complete. Yet unless a person's estate is large and complex, probate cases can be completed for as little as a few hundred pounds"Can you not just ask the solicitor to provide a full list of their charges so you can decide for yourself whether they represent good value? edit: appreciate it's not purely a financial decision. The article seems a good one in covering off the various aspects. I was a bit horrified when I saw a "headline" figure that some firms charge 5% of the value of the estate. My cousin could probably handle most of the financial aspects himself, but might come across the "hurdles" of P2P investments and those held on a "platform". (My files include notes of the processes in both cases.)
I've always accepted that a solicitor will be needed; the nub of my opening post is should I name one in my will (the firm who drew it up) or leave it to my "family" executors to select one.
(Twenty years later, I'm still a little piqued as to why a senior partner drew up the will - at senior partner rates - when it was then fairly straightforward. Since then, the firm has grown from a relatively small one to something grander, reflected in their new offices. I suspect that their charges have become as impressive.)
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Nov 18, 2020 16:23:12 GMT
I was a bit horrified when I saw a "headline" figure that some firms charge 5% of the value of the estate. My cousin could probably handle most of the financial aspects himself, but might come across the "hurdles" of P2P investments and those held on a "platform". (My files include notes of the processes in both cases.)
I've always accepted that a solicitor will be needed; the nub of my opening post is should I name one in my will (the firm who drew it up) or leave it to my "family" executors to select one.
(Twenty years later, I'm still a little piqued as to why a senior partner drew up the will - at senior partner rates - when it was then fairly straightforward. Since then, the firm has grown from a relatively small one to something grander, reflected in their new offices. I suspect that their charges have become as impressive.)
Ah ok, sorry I must have read your post too quickly.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Nov 18, 2020 16:58:23 GMT
I guess it deponds on how complex your estate is . I was my Uncle's executor. His estate was to be divided between his brothers and sisters or their children. Nine people. It consisted of investments and property. Every room in his sizeable house in a wealthy London surburb was filled to the ceiling . He was a clever man but suffered from Diogenes Syndrome. We had to comb every newspaper for share certificates and cash. It took months and I still feel we missed some. Imagine what a soliciter would have charged. I have yet to discover what a solicitor does that cannot be carried out by an ordinary person, although there are aspects of conveyancing that have been closed recently due to like minded people feeling the same as I do. Most of the work is done by clerks anyway. Its not rocket science,you just have to be thorough and careful. I'll sit back now while all the solicitors shout me down.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2020 17:05:33 GMT
I did my father's and brother in law's will and they were basically simple and easy to do.
My family has stories of nightmare solicitors including dementia ridden family members being dragged off to change her will by a furious adult child. Solicitors are not above a little larceny.
So, if you have a sensible friend ask them to do it. But stipulate a fee in the will.
If you don't have that sort of friend simplify your estate and pay a lawyer.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 18, 2020 17:08:53 GMT
I guess it deponds on how complex your estate is . I was my Uncle's executor. His estate was to be divided between his brothers and sisters or their children. Nine people. It consisted of investments and property. Every room in his sizeable house in a wealthy London surburb was filled to the ceiling . He was a clever man but suffered from Diogenes Syndrome. We had to comb every newspaper for share certificates and cash. It took months and I still feel we missed some. Imagine what a soliciter would have charged. I have yet to discover what a solicitor does that cannot be carried out by an ordinary person, although there are aspects of conveyancing that have been closed recently due to like minded people feeling the same as I do. Most of the work is done by clerks anyway. Its not rocket science,you just have to be thorough and careful. I'll sit back now while all the solicitors shout me down. Solicitors wouldn't do the house rummaging - if you left everything to them, they'd simply hire a house clearance company (plus a sizable percentage commission). In a situation such as you describe (and my father's dementia led to, to a lesser extent), the clearance people would simply have a Christmas bonus... As you say, there's nothing they can do in a situation like this that Joe Average can't do - probably better, certainly cheaper - and very likely with less animosity developing amongst relatives.
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dead-money
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Post by dead-money on Nov 18, 2020 19:28:11 GMT
Percentage based solicitor's fees are like percentage based estate agent fees; completely archaic.
I continue to be bemused that fixed price conveyancers, estate agents and probate agents aren't more widely used.
As regards Probate; Legalservice.which.co.uk holds your hand for the DIY approach and finalduties.co.uk offers fixed price service.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 18, 2020 20:15:18 GMT
As a recent executor I had a really reasonable, I think, solicitor fee for sorting out a will, probate, house sale, etc, although it was in the northeast which may be cheaper and a long way from us. It wasn't absolutely straightforward with charities involved and the house still partially in the name of someone who had died years before. The donations to charities were a bit of a pain since they also had rights to the house content, which I'm sure the deceased did not expect!
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moonraker
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Post by moonraker on Nov 18, 2020 21:54:03 GMT
... So, if you have a sensible friend ask them to do it. But stipulate a fee in the will. If you don't have that sort of friend simplify your estate and pay a lawyer. My cousin is very sensible and is retired, but I don't think he would want to sort out the finances. We aren't in frequent contact but the other week he did offer to clear out my house, though I have a couple of friends already lined up for that.
For the past seven or eight years I've been slowly decluttering, for example selling off a specialist stamp collection that would be difficult for most people to dispose of . This summer I was going to approach dealers about a few family heirlooms, but Covid prevented that.
I'm trying to give money aware and have increased my charitable donations. I've just spent a lot of time working out if I can make lifetime gifts (over and above the £3,000 and unlimited number of £250s), but that doesn't seem practicable.
The big unknown is care and nursing-home fees for when I become even more senile - £50-80K a year would simplify my estate!
The obvious thing is to ask my cousin whether he would prefer to appoint his own solicitor.
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 19, 2020 8:37:59 GMT
... The donations to charities were a bit of a pain since they also had rights to the house content, which I'm sure the deceased did not expect! That is interesting. Can you explain how that came about ? Did the will give state a donation as a %age of the total estate ?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 19, 2020 9:12:54 GMT
... The donations to charities were a bit of a pain since they also had rights to the house content, which I'm sure the deceased did not expect! That is interesting. Can you explain how that came about ? Did the will give state a donation as a %age of the total estate ? Yes, but that seems to be normal practise because if you give a fixed amount it may end up being far more of the estate than you expected years down the line (or far less of course). There were three charities each with a 10% share, and each of them had to be consulted about the contents. We declared the few items of some modest value (but family items of much greater personal value) and in the end they were happy with a share in just those valuations, and we bought out the items. Hence if I was doing it I would have some sort of caveat about house contents.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Nov 19, 2020 9:42:26 GMT
This is a very sad thread. Various relatives have fallen off the tree of life recently. My family is large and complicated by unstable factors. Diogenes Sydrome is not uncommon. I've weighed up the possibilities of my demise everytime I've attended a clearup or a funeral .Pete Postlethwaite,the actor was a neighbour and despite being loaded, his estate on death was £8,000,which is pretty keen financing. I 've decided that I'm going to stay put until decrepit and let the children dig me out on death.
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