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Post by Ace on Jan 26, 2021 12:05:00 GMT
Thank you Ace , that is an incredibly useful and frank appraisal of Kuflink. I agree the auto-invest accounts seem to be largely opaque and it's hard to make sense of what would happen in the case of loan defaults. I get the feeling that with K many things are done on an ad hoc basis, as tends to be the case with smaller businesses. "I don't invest in the auto-invest accounts on K because they invest in their higher tier loans, which I think are very poorly priced for the risk." - I understood everything you said, apart from this. Does this mean that the higher tier loans are not invested into from the auto-invest accounts please? Is that why you don't invest into them? Or is there another reason you don't like the auto-invest products? In terms of the "up to x%" that K quote on their auto-invest loan products, I'm highly cynical about the "up to". In the P2P space, TheHouseCrowd are the gold medalists with their "up to"s, prominently stating "up to 10% p.a." when launching loans and then ending up paying FAR less in the end. So, do you know, what rates Kuflink may be currently paying on their 1, 3 and 5 year auto-invest loans please? Thanks again! You're welcome. The higher tier loans are invested into in the auto-invest accounts. I think these are too high a risk for the rates paid. I won't invest in tiered loans above tier 1 as self selected investments, and don't like that the auto-invest accounts do invest in higher tiers, particularly as I don't understand how defaults are handled in these accounts. The one small 5 year auto-invest account that I'm in did pay exactly 7% at the end of the first year. Though I had to contact their CS to get this payment as the interest was being automatically compounded. I was very confused because the website said that I had been paid some interest, but there was no such payment to my account, hence I contacted them for am explanation. Apparently, you can choose to have interest paid annually or compounded but again, this is not explained anywhere on the website and your setting is not shown anywhere either. It seems that I've done Kuflink a small injustice (see highlighted text above). Here's the relevant section of their Ts&Cs, which were updated this month: My bold.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Jan 31, 2021 14:48:03 GMT
Thank you very much indeed for explaining that Ace. You're very helpful. It all makes sense now. I'm still umming and ahhing about Kuflink's Auto-Invest. Based on your incredibly useful insights and research I've done, I've posted a message in the Kuflink section here about it. |
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Feb 17, 2021 16:02:06 GMT
1) "% of defaults" is shown as 30% 2016, 28% 2017, 18.6% 2018, 21% 2019. Are the high default rates being due to "default" simply being something like one/more months late in a payment or something more worrying?
2) For 2016-2019, "Average additional months" figures are higher than "Average contractual terms (Mo.)". Do most loans overrun by more than their original intended duration?
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Post by Ace on Feb 17, 2021 16:49:28 GMT
1) "% of defaults" is shown as 30% 2016, 28% 2017, 18.6% 2018, 21% 2019. Are the high default rates being due to "default" simply being something like one/more months late in a payment or something more worrying?
2) For 2016-2019, "Average additional months" figures are higher than "Average contractual terms (Mo.)". Do most loans overrun by more than their original intended duration?
Hi cb25 , 1) Further down the stats page it defines a default as being more than 180 days beyond contractual due date. (But see edit below). 2) It can't be true that " most loans overrun by more than their original intended duration" as the Average Actual Term is not much longer than the Average Contractual Term. Its a complete guess from me as they don't explain, but, the Average Additional Months figure is probably only measured across loans that run late, I.e. they're not taking those that complete early or on time into account for this stat. Probably best to contact Kuflink for an official answer. My experience is that, once a loan gets into serious difficulties and runs late it runs very late. Most complete on time or within a short extension. I have one troublesome loan that is already very late and has just been granted another years extension, though they did negotiate a partial capital repayment as part of the extension agreement, so the LTV has improved. I'm ok with this, not anticipating a loss. So, best to spread your investment over many loans if you're self selecting on Kuflink to prevent a single loan causing you issues. EDIT (thanks to cb25): The default stated in my point 1) above is the FCA's definition. Further down the stats page Kuflink define their default to be " A loan is in default when it is 1 calendar month past a missed payment, with this payment still outstanding. This may be a monthly servicing payment or the full repayment at the end of the term.". I expect its this definition that Kuflink are using in their stats.
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nyneil
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Post by nyneil on Feb 18, 2021 0:06:47 GMT
These polls need to obviously be taken with a pinch of salt, but are interesting and useful. I was considering opening an account with Kuflink and am curious to know why Kuflink comes 9th out of 10 companies? Have you had a negative experience with them? I'm happy with my Kuflink investments, but until recently I've only been investing there for referral cashback and for some added diversity, though I used to invest more there when they had their 20% skin-in-the-game first loss on every loan. The problem for me was that I've always seen them as very similar to CrowdProperty, but have scored them slightly lower on almost every criteria. K are: a newer platform, a smaller platform, their average LTV is higher, and their average rates to investors are lower. And, subjectively, I rate CP better for customer support and feel that they would be more proficient at completing development projects if needed. In all of those points the difference between them is small, and the subjective points are really little more than a gut feel. Some points that differentiate the two are: only K has an SM (a big plus for K, but not something I've used as I spread my investments over many loans, so there are always a few that will pay back soon); only K has referral bonuses (not as generous as when I first joined, but a welcome bonus); K don't allow self selected loans in their IFISA, CP do. K allow much smaller investments in each loan, so it's easier for small investors to diversify than on CP. However, the main reason that I'm currently adding more funds to K than to CP is that it's MUCH easier to invest and diversify ones funds in K than CP. CP are currently a victim of their own success. In one of CP's loans last week lenders were only allocated 2.2% of the amount that they wanted to invest. Without careful management cash drag on CP could end up dragging ones returns there below those on K. I don't invest in the auto-invest accounts on K because they invest in their higher tier loans, which I think are very poorly priced for the risk. The tiers are very similar to legal charges. I.e. Tier 1 is similar to a first legal charge, Tier 2 to a second legal charge, etc. I say "similar" as they are actually all first legal charges (since Kuflink will own the legal charge on investors behalf for all tiers), but, in the every of default lower tier lenders would get all of their cash back before higher tier lenders see any of theirs. K usually only add a 0.2% premium for the higher tiers, which is much smaller than other sites where the premium would be a few percent for the extra risk. One other thing to note is that I feel the auto-invest accounts on K are very poorly explained. Despite reading everything on the site I'm really not sure how the auto accounts behave in the event of defaults, particularly how this can effect the repayment at the end of the loan term. I have invested a small amount in their 5 year account to try and understand how it operates from the inside. In short, I think K are an honest and trustworthy platform that I'm happy to invest with, despite the caveats above. If, at the end of your term, your Auto Invest account has some loans in default, that part of your investment cannot be settled until the issues with the loans are resolved. As defaulted loans cannot be traded, they cannot be passed onto someone else. If you are not rolling over the auto invest for a further term, the 'good' loans are liquidated and paid into your cash account, but the defaulted loans remain in your auto account until they can also be liquidated. Personally, I prefer Self Select as it allows me to tailor my portfolio to my own risk profile.
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Post by Ace on Feb 18, 2021 0:21:42 GMT
I'm happy with my Kuflink investments, but until recently I've only been investing there for referral cashback and for some added diversity, though I used to invest more there when they had their 20% skin-in-the-game first loss on every loan. The problem for me was that I've always seen them as very similar to CrowdProperty, but have scored them slightly lower on almost every criteria. K are: a newer platform, a smaller platform, their average LTV is higher, and their average rates to investors are lower. And, subjectively, I rate CP better for customer support and feel that they would be more proficient at completing development projects if needed. In all of those points the difference between them is small, and the subjective points are really little more than a gut feel. Some points that differentiate the two are: only K has an SM (a big plus for K, but not something I've used as I spread my investments over many loans, so there are always a few that will pay back soon); only K has referral bonuses (not as generous as when I first joined, but a welcome bonus); K don't allow self selected loans in their IFISA, CP do. K allow much smaller investments in each loan, so it's easier for small investors to diversify than on CP. However, the main reason that I'm currently adding more funds to K than to CP is that it's MUCH easier to invest and diversify ones funds in K than CP. CP are currently a victim of their own success. In one of CP's loans last week lenders were only allocated 2.2% of the amount that they wanted to invest. Without careful management cash drag on CP could end up dragging ones returns there below those on K. I don't invest in the auto-invest accounts on K because they invest in their higher tier loans, which I think are very poorly priced for the risk. The tiers are very similar to legal charges. I.e. Tier 1 is similar to a first legal charge, Tier 2 to a second legal charge, etc. I say "similar" as they are actually all first legal charges (since Kuflink will own the legal charge on investors behalf for all tiers), but, in the every of default lower tier lenders would get all of their cash back before higher tier lenders see any of theirs. K usually only add a 0.2% premium for the higher tiers, which is much smaller than other sites where the premium would be a few percent for the extra risk. One other thing to note is that I feel the auto-invest accounts on K are very poorly explained. Despite reading everything on the site I'm really not sure how the auto accounts behave in the event of defaults, particularly how this can effect the repayment at the end of the loan term. I have invested a small amount in their 5 year account to try and understand how it operates from the inside. In short, I think K are an honest and trustworthy platform that I'm happy to invest with, despite the caveats above. If, at the end of your term, your Auto Invest account has some loans in default, that part of your investment cannot be settled until the issues with the loans are resolved. As defaulted loans cannot be traded, they cannot be passed onto someone else. If you are not rolling over the auto invest for a further term, the 'good' loans are liquidated and paid into your cash account, but the defaulted loans remain in your auto account until they can also be liquidated. Personally, I prefer Self Select as it allows me to tailor my portfolio to my own risk profile. Thanks. Can i ask where you fond this information? I couldn't find it in the T&Cs or on the website. Or is this something you've learned through personal experience?
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nyneil
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Post by nyneil on Feb 19, 2021 15:09:19 GMT
If, at the end of your term, your Auto Invest account has some loans in default, that part of your investment cannot be settled until the issues with the loans are resolved. As defaulted loans cannot be traded, they cannot be passed onto someone else. If you are not rolling over the auto invest for a further term, the 'good' loans are liquidated and paid into your cash account, but the defaulted loans remain in your auto account until they can also be liquidated. Personally, I prefer Self Select as it allows me to tailor my portfolio to my own risk profile. Thanks. Can i ask where you fond this information? I couldn't find it in the T&Cs or on the website. Or is this something you've learned through personal experience? I was told this by Customer Services quite some time ago. kuflink can you confirm this is still the case? Thanks.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Feb 22, 2021 12:53:31 GMT
Thanks. Can i ask where you fond this information? I couldn't find it in the T&Cs or on the website. Or is this something you've learned through personal experience? I was told this by Customer Services quite some time ago. kuflink can you confirm this is still the case? Thanks. Thanks for highlighting this. It's completely different to autoinvest on other platforms (or other types of investments), where what you put in is what you get out, irrespective of the status of the loans in the pool. Kuflink describe the situation as regards defaulted loans in the Auto-Invest pool in their "Help Center" here. It doesn't seem fair that monies invested into Auto-Invest may be held back long after the term period (1/3/5 years) that one chooses in the case of those loans in default. But I believe this has not been an issue for Kuflink's Auto-Invest lenders thusfar.
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dave4
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Post by dave4 on Feb 22, 2021 14:03:04 GMT
Some auto invest invest you in a pool as it were, where you can be withdrawn from the pool funds. Some actually invest in actual loans, and you are then dependent on the loan performance / completion ect for your exit. All exit terms should be taken as a guide ect !.
On the Auto invest plus it is convenient to use especially to reinvest funds interest repaid. You can use both.
If you are not prepared to have funds tied up for a period of time possibly multiple years past there expected /stated term. don't invest.
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Post by Ace on Feb 22, 2021 15:38:16 GMT
One problem with Kuflink's auto-invest and ISA products is that you can't see which loans your funds are invested in, or how much is in each. I have no idea whether my small auto-invest has any defaulted loans in it. For all I know, my auto investment could be split over just 2 loans without breaking any terms that I've seen. (I don't imagine that this is the case, but concrete info just doesn't seem to be there).
You can see the list of properties that are eligible for new Auto or ISA investments, but there's no info on which ones you will initially be invested in or in what proportions.
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daves
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Post by daves on Mar 4, 2021 11:17:57 GMT
There is so much negativity about Assetz on these forums. So I'm surprised to see them as being voted the number one P2P platform?
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dave4
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Post by dave4 on Mar 4, 2021 11:23:55 GMT
Q2 results could be interesting.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Mar 4, 2021 11:28:15 GMT
There is so much negativity about Assetz on these forums. So I'm surprised to see them as being voted the number one P2P platform? Historically winning these things is usually the kiss of death. 
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Post by Ace on Mar 4, 2021 12:21:09 GMT
There is so much negativity about Assetz on these forums. So I'm surprised to see them as being voted the number one P2P platform? Historically winning these things is usually the kiss of death. Technically its "No More P2P" that's heading the poll. So, does that mean it's the kiss off death for "No More P2P"? Perhaps it means we'll all be piling in from now on 🙃
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Mar 26, 2021 12:01:05 GMT
There is so much negativity about Assetz on these forums. So I'm surprised to see them as being voted the number one P2P platform? Not surprised at all. First, the poll is really testing numbers of people investing per platform, and as possibly/probably the largest platform still operating you'd expect to see a high number. The poll isn't really answering the question "which is best". The other thing to note is that although there is a lot of negativity about AC nearly all of it is coming from a very small number of posters.
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