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Post by dan1 on Jan 11, 2021 21:59:41 GMT
As I suspected! The similarities between Trump-Johnson administrations are somewhat frightening. I didn't know BoJo had a load of fanatical supporters willing to attack parliament to keep him in power. Jo Cox
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corto
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one-syllabistic
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Post by corto on Jan 11, 2021 22:07:41 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 11, 2021 22:31:49 GMT
It perhaps gives the likes of China a distinct advantage because the CCP control policy whereas our governments policy follow from its business/people. BS ends. Apologies. No need to apologise. You're bob-on. It gives authoritarian regimes an advantage... so long as their aims actually agree with the greater good. So, yes, China's doing fairly well not as monumentally badly as most on climate change, while the US is still in complete denial (for another week). But when it comes to human rights... <shudder>
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Jan 11, 2021 23:37:56 GMT
Opinion piece from an ex senior director of the National Security Council under Trump - Yes it was a coupNothing you didn't already know probably, yet somehow startling to see the charge sheet all laid out. Including this: "The good news for the United States is that Trump’s “self-coup” failed. The bad news is that his supporters still believe the false narrative, the Big Lie that he won the election. Trump has not repudiated it, nor have the House and Senate Republicans who voted against the Electoral College results. Millions of people still think the election was stolen. They still support Trump the person, not the Republican Party, and many are prepared to take further action on his behalf"It's impossible to say how all of this is going to work out of course. The USA is certainly in a dangerous place though, with widening inequality facilitating the arrival of someone like Trump, now combined with a pandemic and this event, which have both even further widened and sharpened the ill-feeling. And all in a country which just loves its guns. As the article points out, its institutions have (mostly) done well in very difficult circumstances. Ultimately though institutions serve the people, and if millions of them are going to continue to believe the institutions themselves are a fraud, then that's a difficult problem to solve.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 12, 2021 8:00:37 GMT
Opinion piece from an ex senior director of the National Security Council under Trump - Yes it was a coupNothing you didn't already know probably, yet somehow startling to see the charge sheet all laid out. Including this: "The good news for the United States is that Trump’s “self-coup” failed. The bad news is that his supporters still believe the false narrative, the Big Lie that he won the election. Trump has not repudiated it, nor have the House and Senate Republicans who voted against the Electoral College results. Millions of people still think the election was stolen. They still support Trump the person, not the Republican Party, and many are prepared to take further action on his behalf"It's impossible to say how all of this is going to work out of course. The USA is certainly in a dangerous place though, with widening inequality facilitating the arrival of someone like Trump, now combined with a pandemic and this event, which have both even further widened and sharpened the ill-feeling. And all in a country which just loves its guns. As the article points out, its institutions have (mostly) done well in very difficult circumstances. Ultimately though institutions serve the people, and if millions of them are going to continue to believe the institutions themselves are a fraud, then that's a difficult problem to solve. Ultimately, you cannot force people to change their minds. There is plenty of information out there showing what is and what is not accurate - but there is plenty of disinformation. Shut that down, and people assume it's part of the conspiracy. If people who have been on the side of the liars change side, the lied-to see them as traitors who the conspiracy has got to... Who'd have wanted to be Pence the other day...?
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 12, 2021 8:18:48 GMT
Oh the dilemma, which thread to put this in...... Of course this was entirely predictable....
Members of US Congress test positive after Capitol riot
Two members of Congress have tested positive for coronavirus after the pro-Trump siege on the Capitol last week.
Bonnie Watson Coleman, 75, and Pramila Jayapal, 55, both Democrats, tested positive after being forced to lockdown in a small room with many others as pro-Trump supporters broke into the building.
Some of their Republican colleagues refused to wear masks when sheltering, Jayapal said, calling such behaviour “selfish idiocy”.
"Only hours after President Trump incited a deadly assault on our Capitol, our country, and our democracy, many Republicans still refused to take the bare minimum Covid-19 precaution and simply wear a damn mask in a crowded room during a pandemic - creating a superspreader event on top of a domestic terrorist attack," she said in a statement.
She also linked to a video of Delaware Representative Lisa Blunt Rochester pleading with a group of Republicans to put on the masks she was offering them during the riot, as they refuse.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 12, 2021 9:32:16 GMT
Opinion piece from an ex senior director of the National Security Council under Trump - Yes it was a coupNothing you didn't already know probably, yet somehow startling to see the charge sheet all laid out. Including this: "The good news for the United States is that Trump’s “self-coup” failed. The bad news is that his supporters still believe the false narrative, the Big Lie that he won the election. Trump has not repudiated it, nor have the House and Senate Republicans who voted against the Electoral College results. Millions of people still think the election was stolen. They still support Trump the person, not the Republican Party, and many are prepared to take further action on his behalf"It's impossible to say how all of this is going to work out of course. The USA is certainly in a dangerous place though, with widening inequality facilitating the arrival of someone like Trump, now combined with a pandemic and this event, which have both even further widened and sharpened the ill-feeling. And all in a country which just loves its guns. As the article points out, its institutions have (mostly) done well in very difficult circumstances. Ultimately though institutions serve the people, and if millions of them are going to continue to believe the institutions themselves are a fraud, then that's a difficult problem to solve. Ultimately, you cannot force people to change their minds. There is plenty of information out there showing what is and what is not accurate - but there is plenty of disinformation. Shut that down, and people assume it's part of the conspiracy. If people who have been on the side of the liars change side, the lied-to see them as traitors who the conspiracy has got to... Who'd have wanted to be Pence the other day...?If you sleep with the devil, you wake up in hell (as the old saying goes).
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 12, 2021 9:35:03 GMT
It perhaps gives the likes of China a distinct advantage because the CCP control policy whereas our governments policy follow from its business/people. BS ends. Apologies. No need to apologise. You're bob-on. It gives authoritarian regimes an advantage... so long as their aims actually agree with the greater good. So, yes, China's doing fairly well not as monumentally badly as most on climate change, while the US is still in complete denial (for another week). But when it comes to human rights... <shudder> If you were to hold a poll I wonder who would currently be happier with their current lot in life, the average american citizen or their chinese equivalent?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 12, 2021 9:51:43 GMT
No need to apologise. You're bob-on. It gives authoritarian regimes an advantage... so long as their aims actually agree with the greater good. So, yes, China's doing fairly well not as monumentally badly as most on climate change, while the US is still in complete denial (for another week). But when it comes to human rights... <shudder> If you were to hold a poll I wonder who would currently be happier with their current lot in life, the averagr american citizen or their chinese equivalent? I know which I'd rather be. And I also know that, if I were in China and I had the faintest suspicion that my answer might be traceable, I would lie my head off...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 11:23:58 GMT
If I was Chinese say 50 years old I would look back 30 years and remember when chicken was only eaten once annually and poverty was rampant. Now I have a warm flat with a steady middle class life style
If I was a dumb American say 50 years old I would remember that I used to have a well paid factory job and now my kids are junkies and guns are everywhere.
So I don't think the issue is absolute it is relative to my expectations, hopes and dreams.
Certainly a similar situation exits in many Northern cities in UK. I worked with highly skilled people whose jobs were exported to China, their future looked poor compared to their Chinese colleagues who they were training.
On the other issue
I remember the dread Tony Blair pointing out something like, the job of the UK PM is to be best friends with the US President, while Boris said about the qualifications of D Trump, he initially mentioned nothing then added "above all, he is President of the USA" which was a great back handed compliment. Politics makes strange bedfellows
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 12, 2021 11:29:31 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 12, 2021 11:51:14 GMT
If I was Chinese say 50 years old I would look back 30 years and remember when chicken was only ate once annually and poverty was rampant. Now I have a warm flat with a steady middle class life style
If I was a dumb American say 50 years old I would remember that I used to have a well paid factory job and now my kids are junkies and guns are everywhere.
So I don't think the issue is absolute it is relative to my expectations and hopes/dreams. Perhaps. Lack of exposure to what the rest of the world considers normal may also play a part in the Chinese perception. But I'm not sure it's quite that simple. There's a very large number of "middle-class" Chinese, in terms of absolute headcount. But it's a very low proportion of the country as a total - same in India - and the conditions for those below that line are pretty damn gruesome. chinapower.csis.org/china-middle-class/0.3% of the population spend less than $2/day - and that's in Purchasing Power Parity terms, so based on what that nominal amount would buy you in other countries, based on an averaged basket of goods. 47.5% $2-10 34.6% $10-20 ( "Lower-middle") 16% $20-50 ( "Upper-middle") 1.5% $50+ Let's put that into perspective by finding a country that's very close in split. How about... 1.2%/57.2%/37.3%/9.1%/0.26% poorest -> richest... Where's that? The West Bank and Gaza... India? 10.6%/83.5%/4.6%/1.1%/0.14% - even more heavily biased towards the dirt poor. Come a bit nearer home, and... 3%/26.8%/36.5%/31.6%/2% for Romania 1.4%/66.5%/26.8%/5.2%/.07% for Albania Your "American" scenario certainly seems to be the case for many in the former USSR. 0.05%/23.7%/43.4%/28.1%/4.1% for Russia, btw. And... 1%/2%/6.2%/35.5%/55.2% for the US 0.2%/1.2%/10%/50.7%/37.9% for the UK
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 12, 2021 12:01:15 GMT
Another death::
"Another officer who was on duty during the siege died by suicide this weekend, his family said."
"On Monday night, the department said two of its officers had been suspended and more than a dozen others were under investigation for suspected inappropriate involvement with the rioters."
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 12:04:45 GMT
.... it is the movement of change that is key and of course the right to complain. In China they can see a better future in the US they can see a better past. And in China if they can't see it they are hit around the head until the can.
Other countries, not an issue in the comparison between two.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 12, 2021 13:40:26 GMT
And they say the British Government is slow to act?
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