am
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Post by am on May 28, 2016 21:58:36 GMT
Words fail me... at £34,000 I thought this would have only grown on the SM, but it seems investors are still investing in the big red "loan in default" box.2 separate investors invested £6,000.00 and £2,400.00 respectively...  Somebody bought £15,000 last night. Since there are no bots on SS (and hence the default won't have been overlooked) they must be confident in the value of the security.
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boble
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Post by boble on May 28, 2016 22:23:53 GMT
Words fail me... at £34,000 I thought this would have only grown on the SM, but it seems investors are still investing in the big red "loan in default" box.2 separate investors invested £6,000.00 and £2,400.00 respectively... Somebody bought £15,000 last night. Since there are no bots on SS (and hence the default won't have been overlooked) they must be confident in the value of the security. I am wondering if it an effect of the pent up demand for loan parts, that the red warning is simply not registering with investors (particularly those using mobiles), who simply rush to bid to avoid missing out.
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Post by earthbound on May 28, 2016 22:29:17 GMT
boble i think you are correct, even on my laptop, i had to zoom to 300% to read the small print on the red banner, at 100% i could make out the default bit, but not the... no interest will be paid etc etc. so on a mobile i reckon it will be almost impossible.
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Post by harvey on May 28, 2016 22:30:13 GMT
It baffles me also that people are putting their money into a loan that is in default. I have to assume they haven't twigged that it is in default and seen the red notice.
I look at it like this. If somebody tells you there is a crocodile in a lake but it looks very inviting and you cant see the croc you might still go in for a swim. But if you are rational, if you see the crocodile you get out fast.
Edit - the crocodile in the SS lake is the risk of default that we all accept when we invest our money and we all decide what we are comfortable with and which loans we don't like. But that's talking about old money in a sense because none of us have got a crystal ball when we invest. In this case you have a lake with a crocodiles jaw already sticking out so why would you go in for a swim in the first place. It doesn't make sense. However it must be a comfort to investors in that loan that they can still sell their holding. It's a reassurance that the secondary market is so liquid right across the board even though I don't like to think that some unsuspecting Person may have unwittingly exposed themselves to a higher level of risk although you could argue if they haven't studied it all carefully they have only themselves to blame.
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Post by ogwellian on May 28, 2016 22:37:57 GMT
No you don't; SS may have suggested that you would continue to earn interest on loan parts you put on the SM but didn't follow through (I think because of some negative feedback at the prospect of this). When you go and sell a loan part you get the following message; The last sentence is ambiguous. Is it unpaid interest prior to sale or does it mean prior to being put on sale?
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on May 28, 2016 23:09:33 GMT
No you don't; SS may have suggested that you would continue to earn interest on loan parts you put on the SM but didn't follow through (I think because of some negative feedback at the prospect of this). When you go and sell a loan part you get the following message; The last sentence is ambiguous. Is it unpaid interest prior to sale or does it mean prior to being put on sale? Ambiguous is savingstreams middle name...  I believe that you get paid all the interest that you have earned on the loan up to the date you put it onto the SM, but only at the end of the month. "Sale" seems to refer to when you actually place the loan part on to the SM.
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Post by queenvictoria on May 28, 2016 23:44:34 GMT
Someone is buying because I sold mine this afternoon when there was about £12k in front of me for sale. I thought it was worth listing, in the circumstances, didnt expect anyone to buy but buy they did.
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mikes1531
Member of DD Central
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Post by mikes1531 on May 29, 2016 1:57:17 GMT
Or are we about to see a consequence of the recently enabled ability to withdraw parts from sale -- with most of the parts now on offer being withdrawn from sale before midnight and going back on sale after midnight just so that investors can accrue another day's interest? Why would anyone want to withdraw fund from sale across midnight? Interest now continues to be paid on loans while they are for sale: p2pindependentforum.com/post/104149/thread: Thanks for reminding me -- I had forgotten about that. OTOH, we're now in a position where savingstream say one thing in one place and say the opposite in another place. If you go to put a part up for sale, the message you receive on the 'confirmation' screen is "Are you sure you wish to sell £XXX of this loan part? You will cease to earn interest on the amount you choose to sell at the point you click to confirm."
So which are we supposed to believe?
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mikes1531
Member of DD Central
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Post by mikes1531 on May 29, 2016 2:08:22 GMT
When you go and sell a loan part you get the following message; The last sentence is ambiguous. Is it unpaid interest prior to sale or does it mean prior to being put on sale? In addition to being ambiguous, when applied to PBL020 part sales it appears to be in direct conflict with the red notice which says that interest "will not be credited until sale of security completes."
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mikes1531
Member of DD Central
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Post by mikes1531 on May 29, 2016 2:22:38 GMT
No you don't; SS may have suggested that you would continue to earn interest on loan parts you put on the SM but didn't follow through (I think because of some negative feedback at the prospect of this). When you go and sell a loan part you get the following message; Inasmuch as the message quoted above pre-dates the proposed change, how do we know the change hasn't been implemented but the message just hasn't been updated to reflect the change? I think the only way we might be able to tell would be for someone who currently owns some PBL020 to put some up for sale shortly before midnight and see what actually happens to their accrued interest as midnight passes (by watching their Selling LoanParts page). I can't help because I don't own any PBL020 at the moment and if I bought some to try this research I'd give myself a negative balance and would be prevented from trying to sell the part for a week.
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Post by dualinvestor on May 29, 2016 7:47:57 GMT
hi dualinvestor out of interest (pardon the pun) would the lender have any claim against lendy for accrued interest, in light of the may 11th t&cs change by SS. I have just done a little research, it would seem that Lendy Ltd certainly thought it had an obligation to continue paying interest under loans made under the old terms and conditions (referred to as "OLD STRUCTURE") This extract from a undated "General Update" from Saving Stream reached via this link www.altfi.com/article/1380_saving_stream_shifts_to_true_peer_to_peer, that article was posted 22 September 2015. OLD STRUCTURE If a loan went into Default, Lendy Ltd continued to pay interest at the normal rate of 1% per month. Now whether this has been amended by the new T&Cs I couldn't say On another related point, although the old T&Cs have Lendy Ltd as the lender and borrower it apppears possible that any sale in the SM may be subject to the new T&Cs therefore possibly the new Lender is the SS member not Lendy Ltd and they won't have a direct claim on Lendy Ltd. So it may be relevent how the loan was acquired and when who exactly your debtor is.
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daveb4
Member of DD Central
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Post by daveb4 on May 29, 2016 8:27:43 GMT
I sort of understand most of comments above BUT struggling to understand with all P2P secondary markets and P2P companies and other income opportunities around why investors are considering purchasing a loan that is in default for a maximum/potential income of 12%?
Surely the loss of 12% income in comparison to potential loss of money is not a risk worth taking?
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 8:42:10 GMT
I sort of understand most of comments above BUT struggling to understand with all P2P secondary markets and P2P companies and other income opportunities around why investors are considering purchasing a loan that is in default for a maximum/potential income of 12%? Surely the loss of 12% income in comparison to potential loss of money is not a risk worth taking? Added to that there is also a mostly illiquid market for pbl20 and the new 7-day stop on sale rule kicking in. So I too struggle to understand why would anyone buy pbl20 on the SM as of now. The only explanation I have is that they might have insiders' news, but should be a limited amount of people, not the many many that are continuing to buy it.
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Post by earthbound on May 29, 2016 9:04:11 GMT
hi dualinvestor out of interest (pardon the pun) would the lender have any claim against lendy for accrued interest, in light of the may 11th t&cs change by SS. I have just done a little research, it would seem that Lendy Ltd certainly thought it had an obligation to continue paying interest under loans made under the old terms and conditions (referred to as "OLD STRUCTURE") This extract from a undated "General Update" from Saving Stream reached via this link www.altfi.com/article/1380_saving_stream_shifts_to_true_peer_to_peer, that article was posted 22 September 2015. OLD STRUCTURE If a loan went into Default, Lendy Ltd continued to pay interest at the normal rate of 1% per month. Now whether this has been amended by the new T&Cs I couldn't say On another related point, although the old T&Cs have Lendy Ltd as the lender and borrower it apppears possible that any sale in the SM may be subject to the new T&Cs therefore possibly the new Lender is the SS member not Lendy Ltd and they won't have a direct claim on Lendy Ltd. So it may be relevent how the loan was acquired and when who exactly your debtor is. . Thanks for this, it is very interesting and raises a few more points, it states in the update... Most existing loans will be transferred to the new structure after a period of consultation
and consideration. We may not transfer those loans ending soon as it may not be
worthwhile/commercial to do so.Then states in the ALT-FI News piece... The manner in which Saving Stream investors are paid interest on a defaulted loan will also change. In the past, Lendy Ltd. continued to pay interest at the normal rate of 1% per month if a loan entered into default. Going forwards, lenders’ will continue to accrue interest in theory, but the amount that is ultimately paid out will depend upon how much money the platform is able to recover from the defaulted loan.
Maybe savingstream could let us know whether PBL020 Is now on new or old T&Cs. Many lenders have been trading this on the SM and they may be thinking that interest will still get paid, when actually it may not.
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Post by dualinvestor on May 29, 2016 9:05:50 GMT
I sort of understand most of comments above BUT struggling to understand with all P2P secondary markets and P2P companies and other income opportunities around why investors are considering purchasing a loan that is in default for a maximum/potential income of 12%? Surely the loss of 12% income in comparison to potential loss of money is not a risk worth taking? Added to that there is also a mostly illiquid market for pbl20 and the new 7-day stop on sale rule kicking in. So I too struggle to understand why would anyone buy pbl20 on the SM as of now. The only explanation I have is that they might have insiders' news, but should be a limited amount of people, not the many many that are continuing to buy it. In due course the Administrator will be obliged to file some information on the Companies House web site that will give an indication of the state of affairs of the underlying company and expected realisations, subject to costs, of the security and other assets belonging to the borrower. At the moment there is not anything regarding the appointment of Receivers or Administrators but as that only occurred on 25 May there have only been two business days elapsed so not surprising. Edit Although the charge appears to be properly registered at Companies House this is and extract from the Land Registry web site <identification of borrower/property redacted>
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