james
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Post by james on May 29, 2016 9:35:38 GMT
It baffles me also that people are putting their money into a loan that is in default. I'm not sure that this loan is in default at the moment. Has Lendy Ltd failed to pay any interest on time yet? Has Lendy's loan gone beyond its initial term without repayment of the capital on time by Lendy? Once either of those things happens then yes, it's fine to regard Lendy as having defaulted on the obligations to its creditors. Lendy has announced that it intends to fail to meet those obligations by not paying its interest on time, though. Lendy's own borrower is in default of course but this is one of the old loans where the consumers were lending to Lendy Ltd, not the end borrower, so it's Lendy's own conduct with respect to payments that matters. BTW, under the original loan contract, when is Lendy Ltd obliged to repay the capital on its loan?
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james
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Post by james on May 29, 2016 9:37:37 GMT
Besides this loan, does Lendy Ltd have other loans outside the P2P world that may have loan covenants relating to defaults? Say from a bank?
My concern is that if Lendy fails to meet obligations to its creditors on this loan, those outside loans could also use whatever provisions are contained in the loan covenants.
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Post by dualinvestor on May 29, 2016 9:39:45 GMT
It baffles me also that people are putting their money into a loan that is in default. I'm not sure that this loan is in default at the moment. Has Lendy Ltd failed to pay any interest on time yet? Has Lendy's loan gone beyond its initial term without repayment of the capital on time by Lendy? Once either of those things happens then yes, it's fine to regard Lendy as having defaulted on the obligations to its creditors. Lendy has announced that it intends to fail to meet those obligations by not paying its interest on time, though. Lendy's own borrower is in default of course but this is one of the old loans where the consumers were lending to Lendy Ltd, not the end borrower, so it's Lendy's own conduct with respect to payments that matters. It is likely the loan went into default when Administrators were appointed, I don't know the details of a Lendy Ltd loan contract but most loan contracts have a standard "insolvency" clause. Edit If default had not already happenned
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james
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Post by james on May 29, 2016 9:44:39 GMT
I'm not sure that this loan is in default at the moment. Has Lendy Ltd failed to pay any interest on time yet? Has Lendy's loan gone beyond its initial term without repayment of the capital on time by Lendy? Once either of those things happens then yes, it's fine to regard Lendy as having defaulted on the obligations to its creditors. Lendy has announced that it intends to fail to meet those obligations by not paying its interest on time, though. Lendy's own borrower is in default of course but this is one of the old loans where the consumers were lending to Lendy Ltd, not the end borrower, so it's Lendy's own conduct with respect to payments that matters. It is likely the loan went into default when Administrators were appointed, I don't know the details of a Lendy Ltd loan contract but most loan contracts have a standard "insolvency" clause. So far as I know Lendy Ltd is not in administration, no administrators have been appointed and there is no prospect of Lendy Ltd or its SavingStream business becoming insolvent or unable to trade as normal, barring covenants on its other borrowing, if any, that could be affected by failure to pay on this loan on time. A firm that Lendy lent money to has had administrators appointed but this loan is to Lendy Ltd, not that firm.
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james
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Post by james on May 29, 2016 9:46:57 GMT
It now says on the default notice " Interest will continue to accrue , but will not be credited until sale of security completes" That initially looks like a breach of contract by Lendy. The one between Lendy and the lenders to them, where at the time of origination of this loan Lendy was committed to paying its interest to those who lent it money on time each month. This wouldn't apply to new loans made after the change of terms on 11 May, which are covered by different terms saying that the interest will be rolled up. I'm assuming that they were not forced by the FCA to make the change to all past loan agreements, thereby passing some risk from Lendy to those who lent to Lendy. If an absolute instruction from the FCA I assume it would be covered by typical regulatory requirements terms and permitted. It's also a concern that Lendy changed the terms of their own loan just 16 days before failure of their borrower and they appear now to be intending to benefit from the change. since administration takes time to arrange it seems hard to believe that they didn't know before changing the terms. A borrower rewriting its own loan's terms to be more favourable? Very bad news. Still, however it's done, the fact that Lendy is apparently going to fail to meet one of its obligations as they existed at the time of loan origination to people who lent Lendy itself money causes me to have a significantly worse view of the platform. Not that much different from any other borrower. If a borrower defaults I'd be reluctant to give them another opportunity to do so. Worse still when it's a platform that I'd have to rely on to enforce terms not doing the enforcement of terms. In reading the description of how the PF works, all I see are references to paying out if there are losses of capital. I see nothing mentioning the PF might also cover accrued interest. ... If the sale proceeds aren't enough to cover all accrued interest, however, then the borrower won't get anything out of the proceeds, so having paid any of the interest as it accrued would have been throwing money away. ISTM that in those circumstances, the question whether to make interest payments is a no-brainer --DON'T! If Lendy fails to pay the interest it is committed to paying to those who lent it money on time each month and in full then a formal complaint and escalating to the Financial Ombudsman Service would seem like one approach that those who lent them money could use. Even lenders who might accept borrower Lendy paying late might be reluctant to accept the firm they lent to not paying at all and might do this if the money isn't forthcoming. The procedure still well known as a small claim would be another route but FOS is cheaper for consumers to use than the courts. But at the moment Lendy are at least saying that they intend to pay their interest late rather than not at all. Of course, that's what they are saying today. Given that they changed the terms to a version that would allow rolling up they could change them again before this is done and assert that both changes to the terms of the loan to them apply. Of course if Lendy would be at material risk of failure by paying then its creditors might well want to show ample forbearance. Not good to see any platform apparently unwilling rather than unable to pay its original obligations to creditors. I do wonder what effect that might have on the future viability or growth of the platform. Whatever happens this one is an interesting case to watch on the platform ethics and risk front.
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Post by dualinvestor on May 29, 2016 9:47:18 GMT
It is likely the loan went into default when Administrators were appointed, I don't know the details of a Lendy Ltd loan contract but most loan contracts have a standard "insolvency" clause. So far as I know Lendy Ltd is not in administration, no administrators have been appointed and there is no prospect of Lendy Ltd or its SavingStream business becoming insolvent or unable to trade as normal, barring covenants on its other borrowing, if any, that could be affected by failure to pay on this loan on time. A firm that Lendy lent money to has had administrators appointed but this loan is to Lendy Ltd, not that firm. All true, but the title of this thread is Property Loan 20 is in default, and that is almost certainly the case.
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Post by harvey on May 29, 2016 9:52:12 GMT
It is likely the loan went into default when Administrators were appointed, I don't know the details of a Lendy Ltd loan contract but most loan contracts have a standard "insolvency" clause. So far as I know Lendy Ltd is not in administration, no administrators have been appointed and there is no prospect of Lendy Ltd or its SavingStream business becoming insolvent or unable to trade as normal, barring covenants on its other borrowing, if any, that could be affected by failure to pay on this loan on time. A firm that Lendy lent money to has had administrators appointed but this loan is to Lendy Ltd, not that firm. how do you know there is no prospect of lendy or saving stream being inSolvent and unable to carry on normally it all sounds very rosy to me and if You've got inside information to support that then I bet we'd all love to hear it so we can rest easier
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james
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Post by james on May 29, 2016 9:53:25 GMT
So far as I know Lendy Ltd is not in administration, no administrators have been appointed and there is no prospect of Lendy Ltd or its SavingStream business becoming insolvent or unable to trade as normal, barring covenants on its other borrowing, if any, that could be affected by failure to pay on this loan on time. A firm that Lendy lent money to has had administrators appointed but this loan is to Lendy Ltd, not that firm. All true, but the title of this thread is Property Loan 20 is in default, and that is almost certainly the case. I agree that the borrower Lendy lent to is in default but Property Loan 20 is to Lendy and I do not think that Lendy has yet defaulted.
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Post by dualinvestor on May 29, 2016 10:02:38 GMT
All true, but the title of this thread is Property Loan 20 is in default, and that is almost certainly the case. I agree that the borrower Lendy lent to is in default but Property Loan 20 is to Lendy and I do not think that Lendy has yet defaulted. I suspect if Lendy Ltd were in default this would be a totally different discussion. However I reiterate that the title of this thread is correct it certainly appears that everyone else believes it has, so do Lendy Ltd. It is also entirely possible that people who have purchased portions of this loan on the SM post September 2015 have a direct relationship with the borrower, not Lendy Ltd cavendum est fenerantis
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Post by GSV3MIaC on May 29, 2016 10:03:47 GMT
/mod hat off.
I agree, Lendy appear to be abiding with the terms of our agreement with them, albeit that they changed the terms w.r.t. accrued interest somewhat (and only in the last week or so). I don't see any reason to either get excited, or point my lawyers at Lendy. I'm sort of amazed (I know I shouldn't be) .. the inevitable, easily foreseen, event happens (one loan defaults) and suddenly several folks (no names, no pack-drill) seem to be in 'Chicken Little' mode. Now I'd prefer NOT to hold this loan, if I have a choice (I did), but I expect people will get their money (eventually), SS will come out rose scented (again), whether or not they have to invoke the PF, and the universe will not have imploded.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on May 29, 2016 10:08:16 GMT
I don't like it, the apparent attempt to change the rules behind our backs, a default of over 2M 1.7M at 70%LTV isn't bombproof and Lendy would have to swallow the loss I think, I'm off. The good news, my entire holding sold in minutes.
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Post by lb on May 29, 2016 10:12:47 GMT
I agree that the borrower Lendy lent to is in default but Property Loan 20 is to Lendy and I do not think that Lendy has yet defaulted. I suspect if Lendy Ltd were in default this would be a totally different discussion. However I reiterate that the title of this thread is correct it certainly appears that everyone else believes it has, so do Lendy Ltd. It is also entirely possible that people who have purchased portions of this loan on the SM post September 2015 have a direct relationship with the borrower, not Lendy Ltd cavendum est fenerantis PL20 is in default. We are the lenders. Lendy are the borrower. so ... Lendy are in default!
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Post by dualinvestor on May 29, 2016 10:18:18 GMT
/mod hat off. I agree, Lendy appear to be abiding with the terms of our agreement with them, albeit that they changed the terms w.r.t. accrued interest somewhat (and only in the last week or so). I don't see any reason to either get excited, or point my lawyers at Lendy. I'm sort of amazed (I know I shouldn't be) .. the inevitable, easily foreseen, event happens (one loan defaults) and suddenly several folks (no names, no pack-drill) seem to be in 'Chicken Little' mode. Now I'd prefer NOT to hold this loan, if I have a choice (I did), but I expect people will get their money (eventually), SS will come out rose scented (again), whether or not they have to invoke the PF, and the universe will not have imploded. Hmm, the company is exposed to a potential default of £1.7million and has net assets of £? (less than £400k on latest, although out of date, information) and a very opaque situation with regard to whether the PF is part of those net assets and you believe everything in the garden will be rosy, inetersting point of view.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on May 29, 2016 10:20:03 GMT
I don't like it, the apparent attempt to change the rules behind our backs, a default of over 2M at 70%LTV isn't bombproof and Lendy would have to swallow the loss I think, I'm off. The good news, my entire holding sold in minutes. The good news is when the funds have been transferred to your bank account!
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james
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Post by james on May 29, 2016 10:26:15 GMT
I agree that the borrower Lendy lent to is in default but Property Loan 20 is to Lendy and I do not think that Lendy has yet defaulted. I suspect if Lendy Ltd were in default this would be a totally different discussion. However I reiterate that the title of this thread is correct it certainly appears that everyone else believes it has, so do Lendy Ltd. It is also entirely possible that people who have purchased portions of this loan on the SM post September 2015 have a direct relationship with the borrower, not Lendy Ltd cavendum est fenerantis That SM argument is an interesting one. Would you be kind enough to consider a post with more on that subject, since it's clearly an potentially important issue for anyone considering buying on the secondary market? With potentially interest and capital at risk it'd matter to buying decisions. In this case with three parties - consumer lenders, platform borrower and the firm the platform lent to - I think it's desirable to be very clear about which of the parties is involved. So I wouldn't dream of writing that the borrower has had administrators appointed without being very careful to say it's Lendy's borrower, not the investor's borrower, lest it be taken to be Lendy that is in administration. I don't doubt that the firm Lendy lent to has defaulted but this loan is to Lendy and I don't think they have defaulted yet. And it's a difference that matters at least to those buying on the secondary market who are I assume believing that Lendy is obliged to pay them. Personally I'm most interested in how Lendy meets or doesn't meet its obligations as they existed at the time of loan inception, since that'll affect my trust level in the platform.
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