dave4
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Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Post by dave4 on Feb 17, 2021 10:22:27 GMT
Always depends on the appetite for the reward over risk perceived by the investors.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Feb 17, 2021 10:28:01 GMT
I have finally registered on the Connective Lending site. My limited knowledge of P2P lending and lack of experience was clearly highlighted due to the number of tests I had to take . This has clearly shown that I need to fully understand P2P investing before I jump in so I think patience will be key for me. Looking just now though, I am surprised to see that the watch loan has still not been fully funded and that the lower risk band is the one that is available. Would the lower risk band not normally be the one that fills up first? It was an unusually long set of questions, and certainly the first ones I have encountered that included 'How long is Odin's beard'. Most experienced P2P investors would tend towards the higher risk bands, rightly or wrongly. Given failure is often catastrophic rather than minor it is a balanced risk, so I would not be surprised to see that. That it is still available may in itself say something.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 17, 2021 11:30:39 GMT
Some of the experienced chattel lenders seem to think the Rolex is a good bet on having the expected value and that the loan will be renewed so now is a good time to go for high rates. For me I think I would go for the lower LTV and a bit of extra cushion on the item selling under value. The lowest rate tranche also gets all it's interest first, before the other tranches get capital back (not sure if the higher rate LTVs allow for that) and if it went to auction there would be auction fees to pay, maybe 15%. Just call me cautious, or once bitten!
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Post by df on Feb 17, 2021 12:31:09 GMT
I have finally registered on the Connective Lending site. My limited knowledge of P2P lending and lack of experience was clearly highlighted due to the number of tests I had to take . This has clearly shown that I need to fully understand P2P investing before I jump in so I think patience will be key for me. Looking just now though, I am surprised to see that the watch loan has still not been fully funded and that the lower risk band is the one that is available.Would the lower risk band not normally be the one that fills up first? I think the reason for such slow funding of a small loan is that not many people know about this new site. It is too new. No surprise there. I remember few years back such loans were filled within less than a minute, despite the £25 max bid restriction is place. Note that the lower risk tranche is significantly larger than the other two. This could be one of the reasons why tranche C (£600) was gone very quickly.
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Post by df on Feb 17, 2021 12:47:28 GMT
Some of the experienced chattel lenders seem to think the Rolex is a good bet on having the expected value and that the loan will be renewed so now is a good time to go for high rates. For me I think I would go for the lower LTV and a bit of extra cushion on the item selling under value. The lowest rate tranche also gets all it's interest first, before the other tranches get capital back (not sure if the higher rate LTVs allow for that) and if it went to auction there would be auction fees to pay, maybe 15%. Just call me cautious, or once bitten! Yes, the cost of asset realisation shouldn't be dismissed... 8% is a very good rate anyway, that's roughly what we get for Rolex loans on Unbolted.
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Post by investandlearn on Feb 17, 2021 16:16:11 GMT
I have finally registered on the Connective Lending site. My limited knowledge of P2P lending and lack of experience was clearly highlighted due to the number of tests I had to take . This has clearly shown that I need to fully understand P2P investing before I jump in so I think patience will be key for me. Looking just now though, I am surprised to see that the watch loan has still not been fully funded and that the lower risk band is the one that is available. Would the lower risk band not normally be the one that fills up first? It was an unusually long set of questions, and certainly the first ones I have encountered that included 'How long is Odin's beard'. Most experienced P2P investors would tend towards the higher risk bands, rightly or wrongly. Given failure is often catastrophic rather than minor it is a balanced risk, so I would not be surprised to see that. That it is still available may in itself say something.
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Post by investandlearn on Feb 17, 2021 16:24:45 GMT
I thought that the lower tranche would be the first to fill and the draw for investors would be the safer lower option. That`s my limited knowledge proved incorrect straight away then. I guess every loan has to be looked at on its own merit and each investor has to feel comfortable with the security that is being offered for it. Are the choice of tranches a popular thing and do all P2P sites offer these? Or is this something new?
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dave4
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Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Post by dave4 on Feb 17, 2021 17:46:45 GMT
The tranches choice is not uncommon throughout 2p2, not all platforms use it, and not all loans on platforms that do, have it offered.
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Post by mfaxford on Feb 17, 2021 17:52:59 GMT
I thought that the lower tranche would be the first to fill and the draw for investors would be the safer lower option. ... Are the choice of tranches a popular thing and do all P2P sites offer these? It maybe that some lenders have hedged their bets and put some money into all three tranches (although without playing with numbers I'm not sure if that principle makes much sense) in this instance. Some P2P sites have had similar principles. Zopa internally rate borrowers based on risk and then give lenders a choice of only lending to the safer borrowers or all borrowers, the more risky borrowers generally pay more interest but there's also a higher chance of defaults (back in the early days there used to be a lot more control for lenders as to which groups they lent to and at what rates). I think there was also some difference based on loan lengths.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 17, 2021 18:06:32 GMT
I thought that the lower tranche would be the first to fill and the draw for investors would be the safer lower option. That`s my limited knowledge proved incorrect straight away then.I guess every loan has to be looked at on its own merit and each investor has to feel comfortable with the security that is being offered for it. Are the choice of tranches a popular thing and do all P2P sites offer these? Or is this something new? You did get a variety of opinions, and some agree with you. Everyone has an opinion and there is a lot of disagreement or at least interpretation of and tolerance of risk. Also I feel a bit of a short memory by some of what happened to the 12%+ platforms, I don't want to go down the same rabbit hole again.
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Post by df on Feb 17, 2021 19:27:40 GMT
I thought that the lower tranche would be the first to fill and the draw for investors would be the safer lower option. That`s my limited knowledge proved incorrect straight away then. I guess every loan has to be looked at on its own merit and each investor has to feel comfortable with the security that is being offered for it. Are the choice of tranches a popular thing and do all P2P sites offer these? Or is this something new? Trance A is certainly a safer option. As others pointed out - everyone has their own attitude to risk. I also consider the amount I want to risk for a loan or a platform. This is a new platform and it's their very first loan so I put the amount I can afford to loose if things go wrong, so rightly or wrongly tranche C was my choice. But in different circumstances I would probably invest more and choose tranche A. Offering different priority rates on the same loan is not a common p2p practice, but it does exist. In this particular scenario offering 3 different tranches is a good idea, in my opinion.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Feb 17, 2021 20:53:25 GMT
<Snip>Are the choice of tranches a popular thing and do all P2P sites offer these? Or is this something new? <Snip>Offering different priority rates on the same loan is not a common p2p practice, but it does exist. Agreed. And the important thing - very important, imo - is to understand what the order of priority is for repayments in the event of default. Most platforms I'm aware of which offer tranches, structure their default repayments in one of two ways: Tranche A Capital Tranche A Interest Tranche B Capital Tranche B Interest Tranche C Capital Tranche C Interest | -or- | Tranche A Capital Tranche B Capital Tranche C Capital Tranche A Interest Tranche B Interest Tranche C Interest
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This is particularly key when considering loans on a platform's Secondary Market; especially when the up-front interest has been stripped out and the loan is listed by those wishing to avoid 'term-risk'. There is - again, imo - no point taking a later-life Tranche C loan offered on an SM, having been perhaps attracted by the higher rate of interest, if Tranche A and B's Capital and Interest is going to be repaid before Tranche C's Capital, let alone interest. Defaulted loans can take years to redeem and all the while interest on the higher ranked Tranches accrues, the probability that Tranche C receives any Capital diminishes by the day. I think platforms could improve their Ts&Cs by making the 'default repayments' section a lot clearer; using a numerical illustration rather than just relying on (potentially ambiguous) wording would go along way, imo. For what it's worth (a big fat zero, obvs), I'd only invest in Tranche A of loans which fell into the first camp, whether primary or secondary market.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 17, 2021 21:23:05 GMT
<Snip>Offering different priority rates on the same loan is not a common p2p practice, but it does exist. Agreed. And the important thing - very important, imo - is to understand what the order of priority is for repayments in the event of default. Most platforms I'm aware of which offer tranches, structure their default repayments in one of two ways: Tranche A Capital Tranche A Interest Tranche B Capital Tranche B Interest Tranche C Capital Tranche C Interest | -or- | Tranche A Capital Tranche B Capital Tranche C Capital Tranche A Interest Tranche B Interest Tranche C Interest
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This is particularly key when considering loans on a platform's Secondary Market; especially when the up-front interest has been stripped out and the loan is listed by those wishing to avoid 'term-risk'. There is - again, imo - no point taking a later-life Tranche C loan offered on an SM, having been perhaps attracted by the higher rate of interest, if Tranche A and B's Capital and Interest is going to be repaid before Tranche C's Capital, let alone interest. Defaulted loans can take years to redeem and all the while interest on the higher ranked Tranches accrues, the probability that Tranche C receives any Capital diminishes by the day. I think platforms could improve their Ts&Cs by making the 'default repayments' section a lot clearer; using a numerical illustration rather than just relying on (potentially ambiguous) wording would go along way, imo. For what it's worth (a big fat zero, obvs), I'd only invest in Tranche A of loans which fell into the first camp, whether primary or secondary market. Perhaps an even more important issue is where platform costs, fees/interest margin, default interest/fees fit in. COBS is pretty clear now on the information platforms need to provide on loan pricing but Im not convinced that many platforms have really adapted to the requirement. This is something I think 4thway etc should be highlighting in reviews. Ac stands out for me though they can be a little unclear on older loans in relation to exit fees, otherwise probably something to explore further.
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Post by investandlearn on Feb 17, 2021 21:41:24 GMT
I do like the idea of the 3 tranches as it allows even more flexibility for investment. I would imagine that if and when more investors sign up on here that these sort of loans will fill a lot more quickly than it Currently takes as well. Looking around a few other sites it appears to be property that most other sites deal with.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Feb 17, 2021 21:52:44 GMT
<Snip>Offering different priority rates on the same loan is not a common p2p practice, but it does exist. Agreed. And the important thing - very important, imo - is to understand what the order of priority is for repayments in the event of default. Most platforms I'm aware of which offer tranches, structure their default repayments in one of two ways: Tranche A Capital Tranche A Interest Tranche B Capital Tranche B Interest Tranche C Capital Tranche C Interest | -or- | Tranche A Capital Tranche B Capital Tranche C Capital Tranche A Interest Tranche B Interest Tranche C Interest
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This is particularly key when considering loans on a platform's Secondary Market; especially when the up-front interest has been stripped out and the loan is listed by those wishing to avoid 'term-risk'. There is - again, imo - no point taking a later-life Tranche C loan offered on an SM, having been perhaps attracted by the higher rate of interest, if Tranche A and B's Capital and Interest is going to be repaid before Tranche C's Capital, let alone interest. Defaulted loans can take years to redeem and all the while interest on the higher ranked Tranches accrues, the probability that Tranche C receives any Capital diminishes by the day. I think platforms could improve their Ts&Cs by making the 'default repayments' section a lot clearer; using a numerical illustration rather than just relying on (potentially ambiguous) wording would go along way, imo. For what it's worth (a big fat zero, obvs), I'd only invest in Tranche A of loans which fell into the first camp, whether primary or secondary market. Based on the 'names in the frame' currently. I get the feeling the secondary market may have a lot for sale but few buyers in the early days. Any investments would realistically have to be viewed as held to term. Little doubt your reasoning is sound (absolute minimum of little thin zero - given no scale was offered). I would still expect the higher rates to fill before the lower on pawn loans (human nature). If and when property loans/assorted others start to appear there may be a change in dynamics. I just wonder if there is the appetite for this type of platform for it to reach the critical mass that would allow a decent loan flow, if it did I just wonder if it would not just become FS MK2.
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