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Post by valueinvestor123 on Feb 9, 2021 20:45:14 GMT
I have been investing in this sector since 2014 and unfortunately ended up with a larger proportion in that sector than I should have. At some point, I somehow ended up with almost half of my total investment portfolio tied up in it (while I was waiting for equity market drops to invest; there were not many places to park the cash). Fortunately I removed some money before things got really bad but I still probably will be losing between 5-10% of my total investment portfolio which still hurts quite a bit because it really wasn't necessary...
Many unexpected things happened in the last 6 years in the sector. I never really had any strong convictions about peer2peer (I couldn't really price the risks as it was a new sector but things seemed safe-ish, since it seemed like there were always hard assets behind each loan. Still very very stupid to have put so much money in it).
It's funny, years ago, I thought that Assetz would be one of the ones to get into trouble at some point (I had deep reservations regarding the opaque nature of how their various accounts were run, especially the QAA one, which was a black box and in my mind designed to appear more safe than it really was). To be honest, a little surprised they are still around but good for them. Still have a large-ish amount with them, although the majority withdrawn, but at least this one was possibly the most profitable, on balance. It shows how one can be wrong and also how not to put too many eggs in one basket. Although I am sure Assetz can't be thrilled how things are running, even if they are still standing.
Are people still investing in the peer2peer sector or have the majority basically written the whole sector off and it is now largely in a rundown mode? I can't tell what platforms are going to survive. But the ones that might, might still be able to do well in future. They (and investors) just have to accept that the market is by its nature illiquid and be content with it.
Fraud has to somehow be heavily discouraged and penalised and the sector needs to be better regulated (it really wasn't regulated at all, even if the FCA say that it was). It has been a complete jungle so far.
Anyway, I seem to do a lot better with the stock market so maybe stick with what I know...
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Post by Ace on Feb 9, 2021 20:57:17 GMT
Yes, I'm still investing. See here. I have roughly a 50/50 split between P2P and S&S. I only started in early 2018, so think I missed the majority of the crooked platforms. I agree that regulation is appalling, but I'm getting good returns from a well diversified portfolio. |
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb on Feb 14, 2021 15:42:32 GMT
.... since it seemed like there were always hard assets behind each loan. Ah yes, "Hard assets", as in "hard to find the assetz, now the loan has defaulted", "hard to say whether the company ever owned the asset", "hard to work out what date the asset was sold off without the platform noticing", "hard to find the motivation to force the asset to be sold so lenders can get their capital back" ... Between smoke and mirrors by the borrowers, and then the platforms themselves, "secured" loans seem to be something other than what you'd think.
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dave4
Member of DD Central
Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Post by dave4 on Feb 14, 2021 16:49:13 GMT
Yes. Cautiously.
The days of casually throwing money at a loan / or platform taking there info / loan docs / LTV, security value, as gospel and just waiting for your 10% to 15% interest are long gone. And now i believe that the good platforms will survive, not just the biggest or fanciest website, but the platforms that maybe quietly just get on with business. Dealing with issues promptly, transparently and fairly for all.
I try to investigate /discover a new p2p platform every month or so, asses it and then keep an interest, with a eye on investing in the future or discard it. I only want a small number of active p2p platforms, so usually i have to discard and withdraw from 1 to invest in another. Its a slow process and gives me time to reconsider my assessment ect. Im no expert in finance and my money is hard earn't, and have made mistakes and have losses, and i expect this may happen in the future. But i have also dodged some pretty big failures. On the hole i quite like the p2p thing, it runs along in the background and i can do a bit when i get chance.
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Post by brightspark on Feb 14, 2021 17:44:40 GMT
No has to be the answer. Looking around there is not much to chose from. Don't like the sales patter of the newer platforms - sounds like rehashes of what have been before. Also the regulatory environment has not changed so if things go pear-shaped it is Administration with the vultures walking off with a large amount of the readies not to mention the legal shenanigans of such as Lendy who change T & C's at the drop of a hat and put themselves first in the queue on the waterfall gravy train. The only real driver is the near zero interest rates of Savings accounts. Bit of a conundrum for the small investor.
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ashtondav
Member of DD Central
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Post by ashtondav on Feb 14, 2021 18:46:12 GMT
Yes has to be the answer. Getting very decent, inflation busting returns over the investment life from ZOPA, FC (yes, I know), AC and RS. At least 3 times the rate i can get in the BS. But then i'm not a forced seller who will only be left with a rump of bad debt, but a long term investor.
Got burned by one (FS) and luckily i only had a few grand in that one. Managed to exit LW before they went rogue.
As for the dodgy spiv sites. Well...
P2P remains a very good defensive asset class that has survived the worst crisis since WW2, and will be all the better once it shakes out all the poor peops who thought it an instant access savings account.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Feb 14, 2021 21:50:20 GMT
I’m done.
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jester
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Post by jester on Feb 15, 2021 7:23:06 GMT
Mixed bag really, utterly appalled by Lendy and very disappointed with Moneything/Lending Works/British Pearl yet content with Ratesetter, Growth St & Octopus wind downs.
Perhaps I haven't been burnt badly enough yet but I've compromised on reducing my P2P exposure. Continuing with modest sums on numerous platforms Assetz/Loanpad/Kuflink/Crowd Property/Abundance/Zopa
I ideally like to diversify across numerous platforms following previous failures so have recently dabbled with Unbolted and Elfin under consideration.
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Post by casper on Feb 15, 2021 7:41:17 GMT
Yes, I'm still investing. See here. I have roughly a 50/50 split between P2P and S&S. I only started in early 2018, so think I missed the majority of the crooked platforms. I agree that regulation is appalling, but I'm getting good returns from a well diversified portfolio. How do you have some many ISAs all opened in the last couple of years? Edit: just read the post again, clever.
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Post by mfaxford on Feb 15, 2021 9:24:51 GMT
I like the model of P2P, and want to keep some investment in it. So far I've been relatively safe having started when the choice was just between the markets or listings on Zopa.
At this point I want to reduce my exposure to P2P in general and increase my diversity so whilst the short term plan is removing money as loans end (which RS are helping with) I'd like to put a bit into some of the other platforms as funds allow.
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Post by brightspark on Feb 15, 2021 9:37:49 GMT
Yes has to be the answer. Getting very decent, inflation busting returns over the investment life from ZOPA, FC (yes, I know), AC and RS. At least 3 times the rate i can get in the BS. But then i'm not a forced seller who will only be left with a rump of bad debt, but a long term investor.
Got burned by one (FS) and luckily i only had a few grand in that one. Managed to exit LW before they went rogue.
As for the dodgy spiv sites. Well...
P2P remains a very good defensive asset class that has survived the worst crisis since WW2, and will be all the better once it shakes out all the poor peops who thought it an instant access savings account.
New entrant small and perhaps naive investors can easily lose their entire pension pots because the high risks are not understood. In this respect it is not a good defensive asset class.
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Feb 15, 2021 10:11:24 GMT
I have been steadily withdrawing from P2P for the last year, easily and without losses and much delay from my Euro platforms but with money trapped in what was my main UK platform. I reinvested these withdrawals in ETFs and a few funds and these are currently averaging gains of over 20% plus dividends.
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ashtondav
Member of DD Central
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Post by ashtondav on Feb 15, 2021 10:30:51 GMT
I have been steadily withdrawing from P2P for the last year, easily and without losses and much delay from my Euro platforms but with money trapped in what was my main UK platform. I reinvested these withdrawals in ETFs and a few funds and these are currently averaging gains of over 20% plus dividends. Oh dear. The same could be said for Bitcoin. The big p2p platforms offer very good, relatively smooth returns. You have to be either VERY unlucky or VERY stupid to “lose the whole of your pension pot”. A diversified portfolio of assets such as equities, bonds, p2p, private equity and gold should be the best mix.
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Feb 15, 2021 10:42:28 GMT
I have been steadily withdrawing from P2P for the last year, easily and without losses and much delay from my Euro platforms but with money trapped in what was my main UK platform. I reinvested these withdrawals in ETFs and a few funds and these are currently averaging gains of over 20% plus dividends. Oh dear. The same could be said for Bitcoin. The big p2p platforms offer very good, relatively smooth returns. You have to be either VERY unlucky or VERY stupid to “lose the whole of your pension pot”. A diversified portfolio of assets such as equities, bonds, p2p, private equity and gold should be the best mix. Nothing like Bitcoin and it wasn't me who mentioned pension pots.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Feb 15, 2021 13:53:34 GMT
Yes has to be the answer. Getting very decent, inflation busting returns over the investment life from ZOPA, FC (yes, I know), AC and RS. At least 3 times the rate i can get in the BS. But then i'm not a forced seller who will only be left with a rump of bad debt, but a long term investor.
Got burned by one (FS) and luckily i only had a few grand in that one. Managed to exit LW before they went rogue.
As for the dodgy spiv sites. Well...
P2P remains a very good defensive asset class that has survived the worst crisis since WW2, and will be all the better once it shakes out all the poor peops who thought it an instant access savings account.
New entrant small and perhaps naive investors can easily lose their entire pension pots because the high risks are not understood. In this respect it is not a good defensive asset class. A very good defensive asset class? The past few years have seen platform collapses, fraud, totally spurious asset valuations and significant losses for many unfortunate investors. Then covid came along and we saw more losses, significant lock ins of capital and fees slapped onto investors accounts in order to keep platforms going. Blanket changes to T&C's have been used for the sole benefit of many platforms leaving the investors to deal with the consequences. Transparency has reduced across the board and provision funds are more or less exhausted everywhere. P2P at the moment lies somewhere between highly speculative and uninvestable. A return of 3 or 4% in no way compensates anyone for the risks involved.
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