aju
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Post by aju on Apr 27, 2021 16:41:30 GMT
So Zopa has finally got around to providing the early adopter bonus but they seem to be declaring this months as
"Bonus: other (not taxable)"
quite why they couldn't have used the previous id of
"Bonus: early adopter"
is beyond me but i guess they are still fighting fires and some flames are not that easy to put out or worse most of hte development bods are not sure what is what anymore!
So my question is
Am i wrong in thinking that this bonus should in fact be marked up as taxable as its this months income?.
I always thought the bonus was taxable in the past but perhaps i misunderstood.
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warn
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Post by warn on Apr 28, 2021 6:04:21 GMT
So Zopa has finally got around to providing the early adopter bonus but they seem to be declaring this months as "Bonus: other (not taxable)" quite why they couldn't have used the previous id of "Bonus: early adopter" is beyond me but i guess they are still fighting fires and some flames are not that easy to put out or worse most of hte development bods are not sure what is what anymore! So my question is Am i wrong in thinking that this bonus should in fact be marked up as taxable as its this months income?.
I always thought the bonus was taxable in the past but perhaps i misunderstood. According to Zopa's FAQ, early adopter bonus is taxable: www.zopa.com/help/article/what-do-hmrc-say-about-what-i-need-to-declare
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Apr 28, 2021 7:47:33 GMT
Maybe they've redefined it in some way, too complicated to have some bonuses taxable and some not? Or just a mistake, wait and see what the end of year certificate says.
Edit: I do have a bit of non taxable bonuses on the 20/21 tax statement, I couldn't remember getting any odd bonuses, mystery solved perhaps.
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aju
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Post by aju on Apr 28, 2021 8:35:40 GMT
Maybe they've redefined it in some way, too complicated to have some bonuses taxable and some not? Or just a mistake, wait and see what the end of year certificate says. Edit: I do have a bit of non taxable bonuses on the 20/21 tax statement, I couldn't remember getting any odd bonuses, mystery solved perhaps. That's an interesting thought. The thing that worries me most now that there is less visibility of things at the detail level is that if they are making a pigs ear of this simple thing in my view then what are they making of the more important stuff. As an ex developer and designer in the comms business this stinks of documentation and testing flaws but who am i to comment on something i can see a lot less of now. I have reported so many issues to them I think they are just ignoring much of what I am reporting or worse not even bothering anymore. If and when I take all the problems to the FCA its barely going to cost them a days wage for their trouble and to be honest the FCA is already considered pretty much a joke in these areas anyway. Anyway we'll see, i've reported this to them but their usual stance is that the statements are not that important if they are wrong as the backend has all the correct info trouble is it doesn't always work there correctly either as i have learnt in the past. Edit: I've just remembered the latest thing with the statements bonuses are that they are using this to fix data that is months old in their statements we can see or more likely their redesigned backend made the mistake and its been planted in the latest month instead of being recorded in the correct month as was the case in the past. it was more obvious in the old days when the monthly statements came in as I always pulled the statements as they were delivered and in order to be able to spot anomalies record them and their totals as it was easier to spot discrepancies caused by old missed data. I'm guessing they have a table or tables where the data is stored similar to my method and the statements are recorded in a table which won;t change unless they run a rebuild on the new statements. This means that they have to record months old errors in the latest statement as a bonus entry to make the monthlies statement make sense. Just my take though i could be wrong. They may have done this to give the build processes a bit of slack and also save a considerable amount of time/resource.
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coogaruk
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Post by coogaruk on Apr 28, 2021 13:53:49 GMT
Early adopter bonus is definitely taxable, as confirmed by my Zopa-provided 2020-21 year-end Tax Cert:
Bonuses
- Of which taxable2
1 Taxable earnings may include interest on loans, upfront interest paid by other lenders whenacquiring loans from the secondary market, payouts from Safeguard, recoveries on loans that weremarked as bad debt after 6th April 2015, refer-a-friend bonuses and early adopter bonuses. It is also possible to claim tax relief on loan principal deemed irrecoverable by netting against your taxable earnings.
2 Cashback bonuses are non taxable.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Apr 28, 2021 14:40:50 GMT
Hmmmm. But although I’ve never had any cashback my taxable bonus is £40 less than my total “early adopter” bonus.
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aju
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Post by aju on Apr 28, 2021 15:39:43 GMT
Hmmmm. But although I’ve never had any cashback my taxable bonus is £40 less than my total “early adopter” bonus. Oops, now there is an interesting thought!. Are you looking at the 2020/21 tax detail (PDF) detail or the most recent. I've gone back and checked my bonuses values for 2020/21 in STD and taxables and they seem correct. However, the one for the current tax year 21/22 is most definitely wrong in that it has 0.32p early adopter bonus so far this month which I received yesterday and is correct but it says none of my bonuses are taxable in statements . The tax pdf for 21/21 so far seems to agree with this no tax but is clearly wrong at the moment. They have until next Mar to sort it out though, mind you the mounting number of things they have to sort out and are still struggling with and have been since the recent changes gives me the impression they may not have time!. They seem to take 1 step forwards and 2 backwards. I'm even less convinced there is anyone who really knows what they are doing but that may be a little unfair perhaps As i said able i think part of the problem is the disconnect with the new statements and the underlying database that contains all the transactions for real - i hope it does anyway. I have to assume a lot as i have no idea how their system is built and works but what i do know is that the way the old system had become a mess i suspect the definition/design and test docs are perhaps somewhat non existent or at best confused. couple with the way that this change was released so clearly unfinished then going forward i'm not sure quite what Zopa has gained and the reduction in visibility we have if we want it from this change. I still have loans missing completely and am still waiting for Zopa to supply the closing data on them too.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Apr 28, 2021 18:01:16 GMT
Hmmmm. But although I’ve never had any cashback my taxable bonus is £40 less than my total “early adopter” bonus. Oops, now there is an interesting thought!. Are you looking at the 2020/21 tax detail (PDF) detail or the most recent. I've gone back and checked my bonuses values for 2020/21 in STD and taxables and they seem correct. However, the one for the current tax year 21/22 is most definitely wrong in that it has 0.32p early adopter bonus so far this month which I received yesterday and is correct but it says none of my bonuses are taxable in statements . The tax pdf for 21/21 so far seems to agree with this no tax but is clearly wrong at the moment. They have until next Mar to sort it out though, mind you the mounting number of things they have to sort out and are still struggling with and have been since the recent changes gives me the impression they may not have time!. They seem to take 1 step forwards and 2 backwards. I'm even less convinced there is anyone who really knows what they are doing but that may be a little unfair perhaps As i said able i think part of the problem is the disconnect with the new statements and the underlying database that contains all the transactions for real - i hope it does anyway. I have to assume a lot as i have no idea how their system is built and works but what i do know is that the way the old system had become a mess i suspect the definition/design and test docs are perhaps somewhat non existent or at best confused. couple with the way that this change was released so clearly unfinished then going forward i'm not sure quite what Zopa has gained and the reduction in visibility we have if we want it from this change. I still have loans missing completely and am still waiting for Zopa to supply the closing data on them too. I'm still living in hope they have redefined the bonus so it is no longer taxable.
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warn
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Post by warn on Apr 28, 2021 20:18:55 GMT
I'm still living in hope they have redefined the bonus so it is no longer taxable. Well if they can get away with that, I think I could persuasively argue that my P2P interest could be redefined as "gambling winnings".
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Post by fuzzyiceberg on Apr 29, 2021 10:39:16 GMT
Zopa were pretty clear that Bonus:Other was being used on statements to get them (the statement totals) to reconcile back to the balances on the dashboard, which Zopa claim to always have been correct. It would seem that some bonuses that got paid historically got added to the dashboard balance but were ommitted from the statement balance, hence this reconciliation exercise. I would guess that the taxable status of this 'other' bonus on the statement depends on the taxability of the bonusses that were orginally ommitted.
For complete clarity there is no doubt that the early adopter bonus is taxable.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Apr 29, 2021 12:55:16 GMT
Zopa were pretty clear that Bonus:Other was being used on statements to get them (the statement totals) to reconcile back to the balances on the dashboard, which Zopa claim to always have been correct. It would seem that some bonuses that got paid historically got added to the dashboard balance but were ommitted from the statement balance, hence this reconciliation exercise. I would guess that the taxable status of this 'other' bonus on the statement depends on the taxability of the bonusses that were orginally ommitted.
For complete clarity there is no doubt that the early adopter bonus is taxable.
This is what it says: 'When we moved over to our new investment platform, we found that some customers' statement balances were lower than what was showing on the dashboard. We looked into this and found that the dashboard balances were correct. The statement balances were lower due to the fact some historical earnings hadn't been reflected in your statements, causing the discrepancy. The amount you see in your statement is simply making up for that difference and it will show up as 'Bonus: other'. But to confirm, we haven't actually added any money to your account, as your dashboard balance was always correct. All we've done is manually re-add a transaction that was missing from your statements to make the totals match again.'OK, if that is the bonus on my account where has the 'early adopter bonus' gone, because I only have a non taxable bonus. And is it pure coincidence that the 'bonus other' exactly matches what I was told (by email) that my early adopter bonus should be. Even more interesting is the point that they haven't added any funds, if these funds are actually the current early adopter bonus then that definitely should be added to the account. Confused I am.
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aju
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Post by aju on Apr 29, 2021 13:48:18 GMT
Zopa were pretty clear that Bonus:Other was being used on statements to get them (the statement totals) to reconcile back to the balances on the dashboard, which Zopa claim to always have been correct. It would seem that some bonuses that got paid historically got added to the dashboard balance but were ommitted from the statement balance, hence this reconciliation exercise. I would guess that the taxable status of this 'other' bonus on the statement depends on the taxability of the bonusses that were orginally ommitted.
For complete clarity there is no doubt that the early adopter bonus is taxable.
This is what it says: 'When we moved over to our new investment platform, we found that some customers' statement balances were lower than what was showing on the dashboard. We looked into this and found that the dashboard balances were correct. The statement balances were lower due to the fact some historical earnings hadn't been reflected in your statements, causing the discrepancy. The amount you see in your statement is simply making up for that difference and it will show up as 'Bonus: other'. But to confirm, we haven't actually added any money to your account, as your dashboard balance was always correct. All we've done is manually re-add a transaction that was missing from your statements to make the totals match again.'OK, if that is the bonus on my account where has the 'early adopter bonus' gone, because I only have a non taxable bonus. And is it pure coincidence that the 'bonus other' exactly matches what I was told (by email) that my early adopter bonus should be. Even more interesting is the point that they haven't added any funds, if these funds are actually the current early adopter bonus then that definitely should be added to the account. Confused I am. I was monitoring mine with a fine tooth comb as zopa last 2 months had stated they were having issues with the bonus - i think someone forgot to run it or worse it needed some fine tuning to get it working. so I purposely recorded my entries daily - to be fair i have been dragging money out and tracking daily for a while now. so i looked at the updates on 26th then the 27th - did get some bonus items but nothing that resembled EAB's (I sort of calculate that loosly each month too.) so as soon as the email came yesterday i immediately went to the system and checked what the most recent bonuses were. I matched up the 2 i received directly with the total of the email amount and i can state categorically that these value were marked as bonus:other (non taxable) I wrote to them as soon as this happened but sadly they will probably take about 7 week days to respond on it. In my check of the latest tax pdf today the bonuses are recorded but the only taxable earning to declare is relative to loan interest. Edit: Actually i've just rechecked my 20/21 tax document and the EAB is definitely taxed its the only bonus I have and in the new statements its not marked as non taxable. This year the EAB is marked as not taxable and the tax pdf agrees its not. As i say i have reported this to them but fixes seem to take weeks once an error is found and to be fair this does not really have to be fixed until next April. They seem to also not be that interested in the confusion this and other aspects of the new layouts is throwing up.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Apr 29, 2021 15:46:19 GMT
This is what it says: 'When we moved over to our new investment platform, we found that some customers' statement balances were lower than what was showing on the dashboard. We looked into this and found that the dashboard balances were correct. The statement balances were lower due to the fact some historical earnings hadn't been reflected in your statements, causing the discrepancy. The amount you see in your statement is simply making up for that difference and it will show up as 'Bonus: other'. But to confirm, we haven't actually added any money to your account, as your dashboard balance was always correct. All we've done is manually re-add a transaction that was missing from your statements to make the totals match again.'OK, if that is the bonus on my account where has the 'early adopter bonus' gone, because I only have a non taxable bonus. And is it pure coincidence that the 'bonus other' exactly matches what I was told (by email) that my early adopter bonus should be. Even more interesting is the point that they haven't added any funds, if these funds are actually the current early adopter bonus then that definitely should be added to the account. Confused I am. I was monitoring mine with a fine tooth comb as zopa last 2 months had stated they were having issues with the bonus - i think someone forgot to run it or worse it needed some fine tuning to get it working. so I purposely recorded my entries daily - to be fair i have been dragging money out and tracking daily for a while now. so i looked at the updates on 26th then the 27th - did get some bonus items but nothing that resembled EAB's (I sort of calculate that loosly each month too.) so as soon as the email came yesterday i immediately went to the system and checked what the most recent bonuses were. I matched up the 2 i received directly with the total of the email amount and i can state categorically that these value were marked as bonus:other (non taxable) I wrote to them as soon as this happened but sadly they will probably take about 7 week days to respond on it. In my check of the latest tax pdf today the bonuses are recorded but the only taxable earning to declare is relative to loan interest. Edit: Actually i've just rechecked my 20/21 tax document and the EAB is definitely taxed its the only bonus I have and in the new statements its not marked as non taxable. This year the EAB is marked as not taxable and the tax pdf agrees its not. As i say i have reported this to them but fixes seem to take weeks once an error is found and to be fair this does not really have to be fixed until next April. They seem to also not be that interested in the confusion this and other aspects of the new layouts is throwing up. I have got some non taxable on my 20/21 statement, which could amount to about 2 months worth of EAB, or it may actually be the account adjustment. Unfortunately I wasn't keeping exact records of monthly payments, but if you don't have this I guess it is legit. I'll wait for you to get a response before confusing them any more.
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aju
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Post by aju on Apr 29, 2021 16:17:31 GMT
I was monitoring mine with a fine tooth comb as zopa last 2 months had stated they were having issues with the bonus - i think someone forgot to run it or worse it needed some fine tuning to get it working. so I purposely recorded my entries daily - to be fair i have been dragging money out and tracking daily for a while now. so i looked at the updates on 26th then the 27th - did get some bonus items but nothing that resembled EAB's (I sort of calculate that loosly each month too.) so as soon as the email came yesterday i immediately went to the system and checked what the most recent bonuses were. I matched up the 2 i received directly with the total of the email amount and i can state categorically that these value were marked as bonus:other (non taxable) I wrote to them as soon as this happened but sadly they will probably take about 7 week days to respond on it. In my check of the latest tax pdf today the bonuses are recorded but the only taxable earning to declare is relative to loan interest. Edit: Actually i've just rechecked my 20/21 tax document and the EAB is definitely taxed its the only bonus I have and in the new statements its not marked as non taxable. This year the EAB is marked as not taxable and the tax pdf agrees its not. As i say i have reported this to them but fixes seem to take weeks once an error is found and to be fair this does not really have to be fixed until next April. They seem to also not be that interested in the confusion this and other aspects of the new layouts is throwing up. I have got some non taxable on my 20/21 statement, which could amount to about 2 months worth of EAB, or it may actually be the account adjustment. Unfortunately I wasn't keeping exact records of monthly payments, but if you don't have this I guess it is legit. I'll wait for you to get a response before confusing them any more. I have only queried their indicators for 21/22 so far but their notion of the missed EAB is somewhat confused i feel. I am working with one of the support team leads on the new statements and most of it was the alignment with the data I had from the old statements they used to have that i had recorded since 2015. I could see huge missing items in their new ones so it's taken quite a while and they eventually realised they had some holes that needed to be shored up - fixed or worse completed!. The other major issue I have still outstanding with them, I have the FCA 8 week clock running on it, is the missing data for the days they decided to drop so called completed stuff probably due to the delays of the transfer to the new platform/system - its probably also the reason they failed on the EAB's for Feb and Mar too they seemed to know about it but were a bit cagey. In my data there are half a dozen loans that were active up to early feb but suddenly went missing from their new loanbook data - which to all intents and purposes is the old alltime loanbook but with all loans that were no longer not active on day one missing - that's what they said anyway but their answer for that was somewhat flawed regarding finished loans according to some of my closed loans prior to the flip still being there. Thing is though they have so far been unable to tell me why they were closed but I know that Natasha Weir has suggested to the guy i am dealing with that we should still be able to see any data we wish to but not sure at what level this - ideally for me the old detailed monthly csv statements would make life much better for me but i think that one is a lost cause now. I'm still waiting despite me having supplied old borrower id's for the lost loans - they had very kindly supplied me translations for all the current loans in the loanbook and i back translated them thing is though they don't even seem to understand that the old borrower id is a text field so their translations came with numbers rather than text entries. They had to go round the loop a few times with that one. My worry is that those lost loans may never come back - i do still have the last integrations i did with my system including the old alltime and current loanbooks for our 4 accounts. gong forwards I'm going to take copies of the current loanbook on the last day of the month so i may be able to see at least the month any loans closed in. In my current and alltime data i have integrated the last payment day from the old statements that sadly i cannot see anymore but the month closure may be useful going forward. Sorry this has turned into war an peace but it may be useful to some people perhaps. My overriding concern is that if the front end has been so flawed and it still is to degree what on earth has happened in the back end where all our transactions and funds truly lie.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 1, 2021 5:18:34 GMT
Just to confuse this further, I just looked at someone else's tax statements (who doesn't have an EAB) they have a small bonus (which must be the account correction) with the little 2 against it, but theirs is taxable, although the note for '2' implies it shouldn't be. Also got the update with the tax explanation, 'because they've had a few queries', basically saying it's all given on your tax statement so it is easy for you. If that is the case I guess I'm not meant to pay tax on the EAB any more. But I think I have to.
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