Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 25, 2021 17:44:36 GMT
This is the usual avoidance tactics beloved of institions - claiming to be unable to give tax advice. They just dont want to train their junior Braves and Squaws properly. But it doesnt invalidate their responsibility to produce an accurate tax statement clearly showing what investors have been paid. And they can't just try to fob you off with, say a number with no analysis, some of which may or may not be taxable, and simply say 'guess'. If they try that I would report them to the FCA and HMRC. That said my last investment account tax statement (for 20/21) was clear with an analysis of what I had been paid and how much was not taxable with a net amount to report at the bottom. Was yours not clear? Perfectly clear, just apparently wrong if the early adopter bonus (EAB) is still taxable, part of my bonus payments were declared taxable and part not. Zopa confirmed all the bonuses were EAB but declined to say why some of it was stated as non taxable, apart from we don't give tax advice and in future all bonuses will just be stated with no information about whether they are taxable or not (hopefully Zopa will at least say what the bonuses are for in future, but they didn't comment on that either). I have a bottom line saying this is your taxable income to declare but it is using some EAB taxable and some not, can it possibly be right?
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aju
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Post by aju on Jun 26, 2021 10:43:15 GMT
This is the usual avoidance tactics beloved of institions - claiming to be unable to give tax advice. They just dont want to train their junior Braves and Squaws properly. But it doesnt invalidate their responsibility to produce an accurate tax statement clearly showing what investors have been paid. And they can't just try to fob you off with, say a number with no analysis, some of which may or may not be taxable, and simply say 'guess'. If they try that I would report them to the FCA and HMRC. That said my last investment account tax statement (for 20/21) was clear with an analysis of what I had been paid and how much was not taxable with a net amount to report at the bottom. Was yours not clear? Perfectly clear, just apparently wrong if the early adopter bonus (EAB) is still taxable, part of my bonus payments were declared taxable and part not. Zopa confirmed all the bonuses were EAB but declined to say why some of it was stated as non taxable, apart from we don't give tax advice and in future all bonuses will just be stated with no information about whether they are taxable or not (hopefully Zopa will at least say what the bonuses are for in future, but they didn't comment on that either). I have a bottom line saying this is your taxable income to declare but it is using some EAB taxable and some not, can it possibly be right? So the only thing i might add to this is that in my case i have EAB and in Feb and Mar those values do not appear due to the EAB function having being turned off and i suspect not turned back on or it was not ready in time for the update. I was advised that my EAB for those two months would appear in the April period I assume that affects everyone. Myself and Mrs Aju have other non specified "bonus" items in our statements where by I was advised that some loan entries were inadvertently missed in the statements for specific loans and were then added as bonus items to make the top line match the statements totals. (Sounds like a one off bodge to me and not really sure why but that's what i was told). The overiding thing here for me is that I suspect Zopa support and possibly tribe members do not understand the system enough to be able to make the new system work correctly or worse do not understand UK tax laws. There must be someone who knows but the front end is not communicating this or worse hiding behind the misguided view that they do not have a responsibility to supply correct information. I am storing a lot of this up to try and get the old detailed statements dta back but since we are almost down to 3 figure values its not really worth my time now - mind you going to the FCA and HMRC will probably be worth it soon. (As i said before my tax details are correct and i can just about prove it with my spreads of their systems but I'm betting if i was in error HMRC would not accept my personal data anyway. Zopa does have the data and I have been advised that the Zopa P2P CEO Natasha Weir has stated that if we want data we can have it. Clearly Zopa has all this data!. I would point out that the data i am getting takes quite a bit of effort and expertise to squeeze into my Office 2007 without a lot understanding of their formatted CSV's they throw at me I get there but its time consuming.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jun 28, 2021 15:07:43 GMT
So whilst its not that conclusive my EAB has just come through still marked as "Bonus: other (not taxable)" now as far as i can tell since the only entries that have been applied today are EAB bonuses then it follows that Zopa is clearly still confused about what a UK taxable item is!.
I had been promised earlier in the month that the "tribe" was working on a change here but we were waiting for it to be implemented. The suggestion was that this was to be made more obvious but i wasn't actually convinced it would reach us.
I'm about to poke my contact to say this is not acceptable that one part of the system is declaring taxable items as non taxable. Also I have not as yet received an email to state that my bonus is there usually i can and hopefully when it arrives I can cross check the total bonus across my two bonus items. At least they have started declaring in the email the total bonus for early adopter.
Short delay as i wrote my email to Zopa
I have still not as yet received a confirming email for this but i am 99.99999% sure i am correct based on what i can see in my std and isa accounts for today.
I copied Natasha Wear Zopa P2p CEO into my email hopefully she might recognise my frustration and poke someone with a sharp stick but who knows she may not see it as that important in her CEO role ...
Anyway time will tell
Edit: The email eventually came about 4 hours after the items first appeared in my account. The numbers lined up with what i received over the STD and ISA together - Zopa does not detail the items separately.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 29, 2021 8:23:11 GMT
So whilst its not that conclusive my EAB has just come through still marked as "Bonus: other (not taxable)" now as far as i can tell since the only entries that have been applied today are EAB bonuses then it follows that Zopa is clearly still confused about what a UK taxable item is!. I had been promised earlier in the month that the "tribe" was working on a change here but we were waiting for it to be implemented. The suggestion was that this was to be made more obvious but i wasn't actually convinced it would reach us. I'm about to poke my contact to say this is not acceptable that one part of the system is declaring taxable items as non taxable. Also I have not as yet received an email to state that my bonus is there usually i can and hopefully when it arrives I can cross check the total bonus across my two bonus items. At least they have started declaring in the email the total bonus for early adopter. Short delay as i wrote my email to Zopa I have still not as yet received a confirming email for this but i am 99.99999% sure i am correct based on what i can see in my std and isa accounts for today. I copied Natasha Wear Zopa P2p CEO into my email hopefully she might recognise my frustration and poke someone with a sharp stick but who knows she may not see it as that important in her CEO role ... Anyway time will tell Edit: The email eventually came about 4 hours after the items first appeared in my account. The numbers lined up with what i received over the STD and ISA together - Zopa does not detail the items separately. Exactly what I was complaining about, for me they stopped declaring EAB taxable (judging by the amount) towards the end of the 2020/21 tax year. As said above Zopa confirmed the full amount of bonuses for the tax year was EAB (quoted the total amount back to me) most is declared as taxable and a small amount not taxable (all my EAB this tax year has been declared not taxable). This is apparently because they no longer tell us what is taxable or not, except that is exactly what they have done (but apparently wrongly)! I can't get any sense out of them even kicking it up the tribe, not to worry the tribe are working tirelessly to update the tax statements to avoid confusion in future. I'm not confused their statements are just wrong. I hope you get more sensible answers, but I have my doubts.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jun 29, 2021 9:00:34 GMT
So whilst its not that conclusive my EAB has just come through still marked as "Bonus: other (not taxable)" now as far as i can tell since the only entries that have been applied today are EAB bonuses then it follows that Zopa is clearly still confused about what a UK taxable item is!. I had been promised earlier in the month that the "tribe" was working on a change here but we were waiting for it to be implemented. The suggestion was that this was to be made more obvious but i wasn't actually convinced it would reach us. I'm about to poke my contact to say this is not acceptable that one part of the system is declaring taxable items as non taxable. Also I have not as yet received an email to state that my bonus is there usually i can and hopefully when it arrives I can cross check the total bonus across my two bonus items. At least they have started declaring in the email the total bonus for early adopter. Short delay as i wrote my email to Zopa I have still not as yet received a confirming email for this but i am 99.99999% sure i am correct based on what i can see in my std and isa accounts for today. I copied Natasha Wear Zopa P2p CEO into my email hopefully she might recognise my frustration and poke someone with a sharp stick but who knows she may not see it as that important in her CEO role ... Anyway time will tell Edit: The email eventually came about 4 hours after the items first appeared in my account. The numbers lined up with what i received over the STD and ISA together - Zopa does not detail the items separately. Exactly what I was complaining about, for me they stopped declaring EAB taxable (judging by the amount) towards the end of the 2020/21 tax year. As said above Zopa confirmed the full amount of bonuses for the tax year was EAB (quoted the total amount back to me) most is declared as taxable and a small amount not taxable (all my EAB this tax year has been declared not taxable). This is apparently because they no longer tell us what is taxable or not, except that is exactly what they have done (but apparently wrongly)! I can't get any sense out of them even kicking it up the tribe, not to worry the tribe are working tirelessly to update the tax statements to avoid confusion in future. I'm not confused their statements are just wrong. I hope you get more sensible answers, but I have my doubts. Yes I agree it is very annoying and very inconsistent. I forgot to add that I was originally going to make my latest request for clarity a formal complaint and set the 8 week timer but i backed off for the time being - I still have that option and I might even send an email to the relevant services for clarification. So having decided against formalisation i did actually say the following to my contact - i think they are higher than an ordinary support person though and the stock answers that go with that. Having got their attention previously with this approach things have improved very slowly. I provided examples of the current reports and brought their attention to their own information online that these are very much taxable items. Whilst my previous Tax statement correctly does not include the missing Feb/Mar items I checked that the current tax statement is making correct info - I'm not sure it is but to be fair it's probably just later in the cycle and in reality is not really relevant until the end of the current tax year. Until they fix this specific issue I have the FCA and HMRC firmly in my sights and if Zopa want to compensate me to stop me then I'd be happy with that but at the present i definitely do not think it will be their top focus at this time. Of course I also have to factor in that i am winding down, albeit slowly, and may be finished with Zopa before the end of this tax year so will keep the pressure up.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jul 7, 2021 12:40:51 GMT
Exactly what I was complaining about, for me they stopped declaring EAB taxable (judging by the amount) towards the end of the 2020/21 tax year. As said above Zopa confirmed the full amount of bonuses for the tax year was EAB (quoted the total amount back to me) most is declared as taxable and a small amount not taxable (all my EAB this tax year has been declared not taxable). This is apparently because they no longer tell us what is taxable or not, except that is exactly what they have done (but apparently wrongly)! I can't get any sense out of them even kicking it up the tribe, not to worry the tribe are working tirelessly to update the tax statements to avoid confusion in future. I'm not confused their statements are just wrong. I hope you get more sensible answers, but I have my doubts. Yes I agree it is very annoying and very inconsistent. I forgot to add that I was originally going to make my latest request for clarity a formal complaint and set the 8 week timer but i backed off for the time being - I still have that option and I might even send an email to the relevant services for clarification. So having decided against formalisation i did actually say the following to my contact - i think they are higher than an ordinary support person though and the stock answers that go with that. Having got their attention previously with this approach things have improved very slowly. I provided examples of the current reports and brought their attention to their own information online that these are very much taxable items. Whilst my previous Tax statement correctly does not include the missing Feb/Mar items I checked that the current tax statement is making correct info - I'm not sure it is but to be fair it's probably just later in the cycle and in reality is not really relevant until the end of the current tax year. Until they fix this specific issue I have the FCA and HMRC firmly in my sights and if Zopa want to compensate me to stop me then I'd be happy with that but at the present i definitely do not think it will be their top focus at this time. Of course I also have to factor in that i am winding down, albeit slowly, and may be finished with Zopa before the end of this tax year so will keep the pressure up. Did you get an answer?
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aju
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Post by aju on Jul 8, 2021 9:20:30 GMT
Yes I agree it is very annoying and very inconsistent. I forgot to add that I was originally going to make my latest request for clarity a formal complaint and set the 8 week timer but i backed off for the time being - I still have that option and I might even send an email to the relevant services for clarification. So having decided against formalisation i did actually say the following to my contact - i think they are higher than an ordinary support person though and the stock answers that go with that. Having got their attention previously with this approach things have improved very slowly. I provided examples of the current reports and brought their attention to their own information online that these are very much taxable items. Whilst my previous Tax statement correctly does not include the missing Feb/Mar items I checked that the current tax statement is making correct info - I'm not sure it is but to be fair it's probably just later in the cycle and in reality is not really relevant until the end of the current tax year. Until they fix this specific issue I have the FCA and HMRC firmly in my sights and if Zopa want to compensate me to stop me then I'd be happy with that but at the present i definitely do not think it will be their top focus at this time. Of course I also have to factor in that i am winding down, albeit slowly, and may be finished with Zopa before the end of this tax year so will keep the pressure up. Did you get an answer? Yes and no, My man, who goes by the title of "Key Accounts Manager" has been quite proactive I feel but I believe he is fighting the "Tribe" rather than being supported by them. Anyhow on 6/7 email response he said (I didn't ask his permission to reveal this but its not really controversial and I do think he genuinely thought this was going to be resolved sooner than it is being.) The blog and FAQs he mentions are Zopa's currently live blog and FAQ's. Not sure how long though my guess is its not very high on the priorities. So that was where they are at the present. He knows I am not letting it go and he knows i keep mentioning what I think the HMRC and FCA might be interested in this but I have not started the 8 week timer on this issue as yet. To be fair from mine and Mrs Aju's situation the numbers are really so low now that the issues are not really going to be an issue to the HMRC and Zopa clearly can see that in my numbers too but my view has always been that if they don't care about Tax enough to fix it then what else are they also falling down on. I am also poking Zopa hard regarding defaults levels on the status page/s not taking into account older products where will still have considerable numbers of active loans and i'm also not very happy about settled items and their true return values after settlement Interest lost is zeroed!. This in my view all comes down to the recent changes having removed all the statement details under the hood. The positive in all this for me though is that I spend a lot less time on Zopa as our funds run down so as to be less important and I am getting a bit more time to play my beloved guitars! much to Mrs Aju's annoyance! )
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jul 8, 2021 10:57:18 GMT
Yes and no, My man, who goes by the title of "Key Accounts Manager" has been quite proactive I feel but I believe he is fighting the "Tribe" rather than being supported by them. Anyhow on 6/7 email response he said (I didn't ask his permission to reveal this but its not really controversial and I do think he genuinely thought this was going to be resolved sooner than it is being.) The blog and FAQs he mentions are Zopa's currently live blog and FAQ's. Not sure how long though my guess is its not very high on the priorities. So that was where they are at the present. He knows I am not letting it go and he knows i keep mentioning what I think the HMRC and FCA might be interested in this but I have not started the 8 week timer on this issue as yet. To be fair from mine and Mrs Aju's situation the numbers are really so low now that the issues are not really going to be an issue to the HMRC and Zopa clearly can see that in my numbers too but my view has always been that if they don't care about Tax enough to fix it then what else are they also falling down on. I am also poking Zopa hard regarding defaults levels on the status page/s not taking into account older products where will still have considerable numbers of active loans and i'm also not very happy about settled items and their true return values after settlement Interest lost is zeroed!. This in my view all comes down to the recent changes having removed all the statement details under the hood. The positive in all this for me though is that I spend a lot less time on Zopa as our funds run down so as to be less important and I am getting a bit more time to play my beloved guitars! much to Mrs Aju's annoyance! ) Pretty much the same as I got. I don't think they understand the difference between what they are telling me in emails which is, 'we are not telling you if it's taxable or not', and what they are saying in the tax statement, specific amounts are and are not taxable, these statements are not compatible. They're sorry for confusion, it will all be made clear eventually and from the one I'm dealing with they don't really see the problem with putting out inaccurate tax statements. Lenders potentially reporting incorrect taxable income to HMRC (I'm sure many have already completed their returns) doesn't raise an eyebrow, all very relaxed and casual at Zopa towers or wherever the tribe reside these days. Certainly dents my confidence in Zopa!
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aju
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Post by aju on Jul 8, 2021 13:23:18 GMT
Yes and no, My man, who goes by the title of "Key Accounts Manager" has been quite proactive I feel but I believe he is fighting the "Tribe" rather than being supported by them. Anyhow on 6/7 email response he said (I didn't ask his permission to reveal this but its not really controversial and I do think he genuinely thought this was going to be resolved sooner than it is being.) The blog and FAQs he mentions are Zopa's currently live blog and FAQ's. Not sure how long though my guess is its not very high on the priorities. So that was where they are at the present. He knows I am not letting it go and he knows i keep mentioning what I think the HMRC and FCA might be interested in this but I have not started the 8 week timer on this issue as yet. To be fair from mine and Mrs Aju's situation the numbers are really so low now that the issues are not really going to be an issue to the HMRC and Zopa clearly can see that in my numbers too but my view has always been that if they don't care about Tax enough to fix it then what else are they also falling down on. I am also poking Zopa hard regarding defaults levels on the status page/s not taking into account older products where will still have considerable numbers of active loans and i'm also not very happy about settled items and their true return values after settlement Interest lost is zeroed!. This in my view all comes down to the recent changes having removed all the statement details under the hood. The positive in all this for me though is that I spend a lot less time on Zopa as our funds run down so as to be less important and I am getting a bit more time to play my beloved guitars! much to Mrs Aju's annoyance! ) Pretty much the same as I got. I don't think they understand the difference between what they are telling me in emails which is, 'we are not telling you if it's taxable or not', and what they are saying in the tax statement, specific amounts are and are not taxable, these statements are not compatible. They're sorry for confusion, it will all be made clear eventually and from the one I'm dealing with they don't really see the problem with putting out inaccurate tax statements. Lenders potentially reporting incorrect taxable income to HMRC (I'm sure many have already completed their returns) doesn't raise an eyebrow, all very relaxed and casual at Zopa towers or wherever the tribe reside these days. Certainly dents my confidence in Zopa! Interestingly I have just checked my current 2021/22 Tax statement again - i meant to last week when the new EAB items came in but forgot - last years is definitely still showing correct in my view. This years however is definitely showing incorrectly as follows.
All of my bonuses show in my statement breakdowns and add up to £0.47 and there is an issue with rounding as these are presented to 2dp but are internalised to more dp's when totalled by Zopa. All of my bonuses for the period so far consist of EAB items only - as far as i can tell. One should note that the previous years EAB items for Feb and Mar 2020/21 were in fact delayed and delivered in the April statement and show in the current 21/22 tax year not in the 2020/21. Looking back at the previous Tax statement for 20/21 also the EAB items are clearly marked as taxable and the numbers add up too (I have recorded them religiously for all years since the online statements back in 2015 - I think!. I'm going to send this on the my contact - the PDF version of course - and make him aware that this is clearly incorrect at this stage.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jul 8, 2021 14:24:20 GMT
Pretty much the same as I got. I don't think they understand the difference between what they are telling me in emails which is, 'we are not telling you if it's taxable or not', and what they are saying in the tax statement, specific amounts are and are not taxable, these statements are not compatible. They're sorry for confusion, it will all be made clear eventually and from the one I'm dealing with they don't really see the problem with putting out inaccurate tax statements. Lenders potentially reporting incorrect taxable income to HMRC (I'm sure many have already completed their returns) doesn't raise an eyebrow, all very relaxed and casual at Zopa towers or wherever the tribe reside these days. Certainly dents my confidence in Zopa! Interestingly I have just checked my current 2021/22 Tax statement again - i meant to last week when the new EAB items came in but forgot - last years is definitely still showing correct in my view. This years however is definitely showing incorrectly as follows.
All of my bonuses show in my statement breakdowns and add up to £0.47 and there is an issue with rounding as these are presented to 2dp but are internalised to more dp's when totalled by Zopa. All of my bonuses for the period so far consist of EAB items only - as far as i can tell. One should note that the previous years EAB items for Feb and Mar 2020/21 were in fact delayed and delivered in the April statement and show in the current 21/22 tax year not in the 2020/21. Looking back at the previous Tax statement for 20/21 also the EAB items are clearly marked as taxable and the numbers add up too (I have recorded them religiously for all years since the online statements back in 2015 - I think!. I'm going to send this on the my contact - the PDF version of course - and make him aware that this is clearly incorrect at this stage. I haven't attempted to check all the figures I assume perhaps foolishly that they are more or less correct. On my 2020/21 tax statement I definitely have bonuses (£X), of which taxable (smaller £Y (not just pennies but tens of pounds less)). I initially just queried what the not taxable bonus was, since I thought I only had EAB and expected a simple sensible explanation. The answer comes back that the total bonus £X is all EAB, why 'of which taxable' is only £Y they won't say. They just say I should consider the whole amount of the bonuses (all EAB apparently) and make my own decision about whether it is taxable or not, as they don't give tax advice! It's just plain stupid. Like you all my EAB this tax year is classed as not taxable, which must be wrong unless they have somehow changed the tax status of EAB (I wish). I could just about accept that this is temporarily wrong and they are going to change the wording before the end of the tax year to something like Bonus EAB you must decide if it's taxable. But last years tax statement should be correct by now and mine is clearly not one way or another EAB cannot be both taxable and not taxable can it?
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aju
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Post by aju on Jul 9, 2021 13:04:01 GMT
Just thought i would mention the following comment from the person i am working with in Zopa for the Tax issues surrounding what is taxable and what isn't. I've just noticed this comment that came in yesterday although I didn't pick it up till today.
This was as a response from my increasing prods of just when the statements are going to be corrected if at all. I will keep poking if things do not change but I expect them to sort this out sooner rather than later as Tax and the HMRC can be a very sensitive area.
I'm expecting them to also fix the latest TAX statements (PDF versions) as they are completely missing any EAB taxable items as far as i can tell too. The implication of this compared to previous years is that it leave people who do not notice this incorrect change and are in receipt of taxable EAB or other taxable bonuses I assume will not be declaring things correctly to the taxman. This could result in fines from the taxman at some point.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jul 13, 2021 19:17:46 GMT
Just thought i would mention the following comment from the person i am working with in Zopa for the Tax issues surrounding what is taxable and what isn't. I've just noticed this comment that came in yesterday although I didn't pick it up till today. This was as a response from my increasing prods of just when the statements are going to be corrected if at all. I will keep poking if things do not change but I expect them to sort this out sooner rather than later as Tax and the HMRC can be a very sensitive area. I'm expecting them to also fix the latest TAX statements (PDF versions) as they are completely missing any EAB taxable items as far as i can tell too. The implication of this compared to previous years is that it leave people who do not notice this incorrect change and are in receipt of taxable EAB or other taxable bonuses I assume will not be declaring things correctly to the taxman. This could result in fines from the taxman at some point. So i got this today from my contact - i am still waiting for the latest changes to see if Zopa really is confused where their view seems to be that they do not advise on tax but I'm not actually asking for advise just the information that makes it possible to get the relevant items detailed by what they are and that they are accurately detailed. I'm not sure they really know what they are doing yet but until we see clear defined returns from specific products in my case most definitely the very taxable Early Adopter Bonus. The fact they keep confusing advice with their requirement to define what money is being returned for whatever bonus there are quite a few. As I said above and have said to them I can work out if its meant to be taxed by other information supplied on their site but i need to know that the relevant bonus or whatever they are calling it is EAB or for others the relevant name so one can make a valid decision. I'm not very confident as this one has been doing the rounds for a good while now and it seem to get bounced back and forth quite a bit. They seem to understand at the one shot level, make the changes that then makes other changes. They have acknowledged that this worked last year - mostly but seem unable to correct it. Time will tell but I guess it may soon be time to invoke the eight weeks and take it to the FCA and HMRC although i'm not sure the HMRC will be that helpful until they get wind of there being quite some potential pickings from investers in Zopa. There is bound to be someone in HMRC looking to make quite a name for themselves perhaps.
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