Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 11, 2021 7:58:34 GMT
I'm getting 4.0% on an old reinvesting portfolio on ISA and non-ISA. It's fallen slightly recently (from 4.25%) as I've started reinvesting some funds in core rather than all in plus to reduce cash drag. Plus early adopter bonus and tax relief on losses so overall not bad.
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Post by Ace on May 11, 2021 8:03:38 GMT
IMO, low LTV property secured investments with good diversification has to be safer than unsecured consumer credit loans in the current climate. I would put Loanpad at the safest end of the range, with commensurately low rates of course. Then add in their zero cash drag compared with 50+ days at Zopa. Plenty of other options if you're prepared to head higher up the LTV/risk scale. Pawn loans have proved very resilient for me with the likes of Unbolted, but it's difficult to get funds deployed there, so only suitable for small sums. Ok - Secured property investment is (at least for me) a different risk proposition than zopa. So not like for like. Personally if i wanted to invest in property loans ( I dont - I have a lot of equity in owned property) I would simply buy a suitable investment trust or ETF. Far too many property based p2p outfits have gone bust leaving investors with serious to catastrophic losses for any to be of interest for me. Hope you are luckier. Fair enough if it's not for you. With the likes of Loanpad you would not really be investing in property though. You would be investing in debt secured against property, compared to Zopa where you are investing in debt secured against nothing but promises. But I totally accept that they are different propositions. If you're intent on finding a replacement unsecured consumer debt lending platform, the option that springs to mind is ElfinMarket. I only have a very small investment there as they are a very new platform and I'm not really a fan of unsecured consumer debt. I've achieved an XIRR of 8.64% (including a Seeders Investor Reward Bonus), so it does seem to be working out so far. I'm a bit wary about scaling up there due to being caught out by Welendus/FundOurselves who also appeared to be quite good early on. LW would be another option, but they seem to have turned into a bit of a basket case.
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Post by Ace on May 11, 2021 8:07:59 GMT
I'm getting 4.0% on an old reinvesting portfolio on ISA and non-ISA. It's fallen slightly recently (from 4.25%) as I've started reinvesting some funds in core rather than all in plus to reduce cash drag. Plus early adopter bonus and tax relief on losses so overall not bad. My last weekly statement stated that cash drag was currently 2 days longer in Core. 56 days in Core verses 54 days in Plus.
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aju
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Post by aju on May 11, 2021 8:38:07 GMT
I'm very curious as to why Zopa has made it so much harder to actually check their stats across the board. The fact that 4thway site no longer can give them a rating due to the lack of information being provided says it all to me now. Having a 5% diversification rather than 10% may not actually make much difference in my view unless they are truly controlling this. Surely if i want to circumvent this how will they know unless they require me to supply details of my other investments and funds. Since I have had investing off for over a year now i have not actually reinstated the ability to lend forms. If thats what you meant by the diversification. Ton ⓉⓞⓃ , I'd be interested in how your Zopa portfolio is fairing in terms of increased defaults as from our perspective our ISA's both of them are in fact in heavy loss - the non ISA was in fact a longer lasting product and has seemed to fair better. If it were not for the fact that we had built up a very large head of steam (returns) prior to that for a number of years we would be looking at potential capital loss. Thankfully we have been lucky that we started early. Having sold off a lot we have to take into account the very much increased MRA hit too. Aju - the 5% diversification I mentioned is simply diversification of loans allocated to individuals within their Zopa portfolio. Previously they allocated a maximum of 10% of a loan to an individual, now the maximum is 5%. In practice what this means is that you will get more loans with smaller capital amounts. This means you are statisticallly more likely to achive a retuin nearer the mean of the overall zopa loan portfolio for your chosen product than previously, and less likely to achieve a result much further from that mean, wether it be positive or negative.
Your overall financial diversification - how much Zopa makes up of your overall financial investments remains of course entirely up to you.
I did wonder if that was what the diversification meant in this context although I'm not sure that in our lending size per loan was ever much of a factor in this. I could lend £1999 before it switched to £20 loans so this would not have been much of issue in my lending. Since when we had relend on we would usually get loans that were clearly <£10 I assumed that was because people were selling old loan parts. The overriding thing for me now is i am no longer comfortable that Zopa can supply me with all the data i need to be comfortable with - this is particularly so since the recent changes that i have come to this view. As I have said recently the 4thway p2p reviews site are no longer providing recommendations due to lack of info too has just reinforced my view further. Zopa, for myself and Mrs aju is 2% of our overall portfolio now as we are only in for a collective mid 4 figure sum whilst we exit naturally. It was considerably higher in Mar 2020 but we had taken the decision to start winding down on Zopa just as the run started. We had gradually moved quite a bit into RS during the Zopa wind down over the years before as we became more comfortable with that prospect. I am still looking for another place but at present NS&I PB's are taking up the slack with rates where they are at the moment - i must get back to investigating Loanpad which has recently come into focus from comments elsewhere as a potential to keep in the game!.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 11, 2021 9:56:39 GMT
I'm getting 4.0% on an old reinvesting portfolio on ISA and non-ISA. It's fallen slightly recently (from 4.25%) as I've started reinvesting some funds in core rather than all in plus to reduce cash drag. Plus early adopter bonus and tax relief on losses so overall not bad. My last weekly statement stated that cash drag was currently 2 days longer in Core. 56 days in Core verses 54 days in Plus. But my amount in the plus queue was continually increasing so I'm adding more to the plus queue in 50ish days than is being re-lent, splitting my repayments between the two I hope I should get more invested overall, ie, say £1000 in each in 50ish days rather than just £1000 in plus. It's also to do with individual loan chunk size, if I didn't mind my chunk size in plus going up, eventually as the amount in the queue reaches levels where bigger chunk sizes apply, the amount in the queue would start to drop, but I don't want big chunk sizes. A bit convoluted!
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aju
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Post by aju on May 11, 2021 16:14:36 GMT
My last weekly statement stated that cash drag was currently 2 days longer in Core. 56 days in Core verses 54 days in Plus. But my amount in the plus queue was continually increasing so I'm adding more to the plus queue in 50ish days than is being re-lent, splitting my repayments between the two I hope I should get more invested overall, ie, say £1000 in each in 50ish days rather than just £1000 in plus. It's also to do with individual loan chunk size, if I didn't mind my chunk size in plus going up, eventually as the amount in the queue reaches levels where bigger chunk sizes apply, the amount in the queue would start to drop, but I don't want big chunk sizes. A bit convoluted! , unless i've missed it as a recent change you should actually be able to get lending up to £1999 in a block and still get £10 or less loansizes I think. Whilst its harder to control when your money is coming back faster than its taking to lend out have you actually reached those levels by chance. I assume you are controlling this by moved funds from the Plus to the Core say whcih would also take longer or they used to i think as moving from one to another is new lending rather than relending. Not sure if the £1000-1999 = £10 £2000-2999 = £20 etc values helps though or is even still right these days so apologies if this is not correct anymore. These lending issues were not there in good old days. 
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 11, 2021 17:13:52 GMT
But my amount in the plus queue was continually increasing so I'm adding more to the plus queue in 50ish days than is being re-lent, splitting my repayments between the two I hope I should get more invested overall, ie, say £1000 in each in 50ish days rather than just £1000 in plus. It's also to do with individual loan chunk size, if I didn't mind my chunk size in plus going up, eventually as the amount in the queue reaches levels where bigger chunk sizes apply, the amount in the queue would start to drop, but I don't want big chunk sizes. A bit convoluted! , unless i've missed it as a recent change you should actually be able to get lending up to £1999 in a block and still get £10 or less loansizes I think. Whilst its harder to control when your money is coming back faster than its taking to lend out have you actually reached those levels by chance. I assume you are controlling this by moved funds from the Plus to the Core say whcih would also take longer or they used to i think as moving from one to another is new lending rather than relending. Not sure if the £1000-1999 = £10 £2000-2999 = £20 etc values helps though or is even still right these days so apologies if this is not correct anymore. These lending issues were not there in good old days. I think that is or was until very recently true. I just posted a simple example not the actual situation I was definitely moving into bigger chunk sizes, I hadn't been watching that closely and then looked into my loan book! I removed some funds just to re-set and then changed my re-investment options. I had funds in core that were re-investing into plus that I changed to re-investing into core, leaving plus funds re-investing into plus. I may have to start re-investing plus into core (for a while) or withdraw some more funds at some point, hoping lending picks up soon post Covid.
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aju
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Post by aju on May 11, 2021 18:08:48 GMT
Greenwood2 , unless i've missed it as a recent change you should actually be able to get lending up to £1999 in a block and still get £10 or less loansizes I think. Whilst its harder to control when your money is coming back faster than its taking to lend out have you actually reached those levels by chance. I assume you are controlling this by moved funds from the Plus to the Core say whcih would also take longer or they used to i think as moving from one to another is new lending rather than relending. Not sure if the £1000-1999 = £10 £2000-2999 = £20 etc values helps though or is even still right these days so apologies if this is not correct anymore. These lending issues were not there in good old days. I think that is or was until very recently true. I just posted a simple example not the actual situation I was definitely moving into bigger chunk sizes, I hadn't been watching that closely and then looked into my loan book! I removed some funds just to re-set and then changed my re-investment options. I had funds in core that were re-investing into plus that I changed to re-investing into core, leaving plus funds re-investing into plus. I may have to start re-investing plus into core (for a while) or withdraw some more funds at some point, hoping lending picks up soon post Covid. Yeah i figured your numbers were not real sorry it was no help though. Just weird times I guess but if Zopa is making these changes then surely they should be detailing things. If i were still investing I guess i'd ask what the rules are these days. Anyway hope you find a good approach going forward. Shame the lending is taking so long though!. Perhpas they have less people borrowing or worse more people have moved in from other platforms, banks etc to get what they thin is a better return, who knows!.
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Post by Ace on May 14, 2021 17:06:04 GMT
I'm getting 4.0% on an old reinvesting portfolio on ISA and non-ISA. It's fallen slightly recently (from 4.25%) as I've started reinvesting some funds in core rather than all in plus to reduce cash drag. Plus early adopter bonus and tax relief on losses so overall not bad. My last weekly statement stated that cash drag was currently 2 days longer in Core. 56 days in Core verses 54 days in Plus. Cash drag at Zopa has increased by 4 days in a week. Now averaging 60 days for Core and 58 days for Plus.
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aju
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Post by aju on May 14, 2021 17:27:34 GMT
My last weekly statement stated that cash drag was currently 2 days longer in Core. 56 days in Core verses 54 days in Plus. Cash drag at Zopa has increased by 4 days in a week. Now averaging 60 days for Core and 58 days for Plus. I wonder if that is a function of an increase in lenders in Zopa lately or the exodus of more lenders leaving a scraps for sold loans. Of course Zopa has tightened its lending criteria recently too As someone who is drawing down and has been for over a year now i don't feel the effect of slower lending rates other than as defined in monthly emails.
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Post by fuzzyiceberg on May 15, 2021 12:49:48 GMT
Insufficient (creditworthy) borrowers I imagine. Zopa have had a waiting list for new investors for quite some time. Though I dont know wether they are letting any new investors in at all, or just making them wait a bit.
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trium
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Post by trium on May 22, 2021 11:35:07 GMT
Now that Zopa have implemented their 5% diversification (rather than teh previous 10%) it is almost nailed on that you will get something close to the actual overall Zopa portfolio return.
I think you mean 0.5% and 1%. Zopa is currently (since Feb) lending 5.00 chunks instead of 10.00. Second hand loans with more than a fiver left on them are sold to two different lenders - one gets a fiver the other gets the balance.
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aju
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Post by aju on May 22, 2021 14:52:40 GMT
Now that Zopa have implemented their 5% diversification (rather than teh previous 10%) it is almost nailed on that you will get something close to the actual overall Zopa portfolio return.
I think you mean 0.5% and 1%. Zopa is currently (since Feb) lending 5.00 chunks instead of 10.00. Second hand loans with more than a fiver left on them are sold to two different lenders - one gets a fiver the other gets the balance. That must be fairly recent since we stopped relending a while ago and never got anything less that round £10 lots of odd sized loans < £10 but rarely bang on a whole number lower than £10. Do you have examples of £5 exactly loans that corroborate this perhaps- i assume you do. I wonder if its more a case of Zopa is lending much more conservatively (safer for lenders i guess) and hence less new loans more old loans passing from lender to lender. A sign of the times both from Zopa's lender perspective and also from the current much reduced market.
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Post by mfaxford on May 22, 2021 16:26:23 GMT
I think you mean 0.5% and 1%. Zopa is currently (since Feb) lending 5.00 chunks instead of 10.00. Second hand loans with more than a fiver left on them are sold to two different lenders - one gets a fiver the other gets the balance. That must be fairly recent since we stopped relending a while ago and never got anything less that round £10 lots of odd sized loans < £10 but rarely bang on a whole number lower than £10. Do you have examples of £5 exactly loans that corroborate this perhaps- i assume you do. I wonder if its more a case of Zopa is lending much more conservatively (safer for lenders i guess) and hence less new loans more old loans passing from lender to lender. A sign of the times both from Zopa's lender perspective and also from the current much reduced market. Looking at my loan book it looks like it was £10 chunks (or parts of for loans gained via the secondary market) until I stopped re-investing in November. Having turned it back on in April (after withdrawing to a level I felt happier with) the chunks look to be £5. I don't know at what point in that period they made the change (although I wonder if it was part of the other "upgrades").
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aju
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Post by aju on May 22, 2021 17:11:07 GMT
That must be fairly recent since we stopped relending a while ago and never got anything less that round £10 lots of odd sized loans < £10 but rarely bang on a whole number lower than £10. Do you have examples of £5 exactly loans that corroborate this perhaps- i assume you do. I wonder if its more a case of Zopa is lending much more conservatively (safer for lenders i guess) and hence less new loans more old loans passing from lender to lender. A sign of the times both from Zopa's lender perspective and also from the current much reduced market. Looking at my loan book it looks like it was £10 chunks (or parts of for loans gained via the secondary market) until I stopped re-investing in November. Having turned it back on in April (after withdrawing to a level I felt happier with) the chunks look to be £5. I don't know at what point in that period they made the change (although I wonder if it was part of the other "upgrades"). If they haven't changed it then your loanbook should tell you exactly the amount you lent in the "Amount invested" column of your loanbook. The date when it was lent out should be there among may other parameters too. The thing is I checked Mrs Aju's loanbook, she has many more recent new loans than me but as i say still none more recent than Mar 2020 she has the following exact amount lends whilst she had relends on. £4 Mar 2020 Closed Now £5 Aug 2019 Closed Now £7 Jan 2018 Still active £8 Jan 2018 Still active £8 Jul 2018 Closed Now All of those were just lucky to be exact values considering the spreads around them at the time of competing for them i guess but in our case they were definitely during the £10 min era. That said I'm not sure that Zopa cuts these loans up in this way but I'm happy to be wrong. Just a thought though there were always the chance that someone would get a loan <£10 if that was what was left to finish a specific borrowers fulfilment. I found this item by searching on google for "diver" but i struggled to find anything about 5% or 10%. Of course it used to be there when i was lending and i knew how to play it as described elsewhere. (lend 1999 not 1000)
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