littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on May 12, 2021 15:51:15 GMT
From the loan details:
- (The borrowers) are one of our established borrowers and they have owned the property for about 2 years
- Cost of works is estimated at £1,900,000. Total costs are estimated at £4,112,000 including purchase price, construction costs, contingencies, fees and interest.
- CrowdProperty has agreed to lend the borrower £1,450,000 as phase 1 of a 4 phase raise with phases 2 - 4 totalling a further £1,550,000 being set against the construction works.
So if the borrower already owned the property and has not yet started on the works what has he done with the loan for the past 2.5 years, running up 20% accrued interest?
(Loan started 3.10.2018)
EDIT: SEE 4TH POST ON PAGE 2
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mary
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Post by mary on May 14, 2021 9:29:50 GMT
From the loan details: - (The borrowers) are one of our established borrowers and they have owned the property for about 2 years - Cost of works is estimated at £1,900,000. Total costs are estimated at £4,112,000 including purchase price, construction costs, contingencies, fees and interest. - CrowdProperty has agreed to lend the borrower £1,450,000 as phase 1 of a 4 phase raise with phases 2 - 4 totalling a further £1,550,000 being set against the construction works. So if the borrower already owned the property and has not yet started on the works what has he done with the loan for the past 2.5 years, running up 20% accrued interest? (Loan started 3.10.2018) This is my biggest problem with CP. As a newer registered user of CP I cannot find out how many loans are overdue, or in fact any updates at all on loans that I am not invested in. We are happily told in a weekly PR email which loans repaid last week and that all repaid loans have paid back in full. But I have no idea which are very overdue or if they have defaulted a loan. At least with Lendy any registered user could see the status of all loans, with all updates and make a judgement on likely repayment. I am shocked by lack of transparency, hence my very small trial usage will not be expanded any time soon.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on May 14, 2021 13:34:04 GMT
This is my biggest problem with CP. As a newer registered user of CP I cannot find out how many loans are overdue, or in fact any updates at all on loans that I am not invested in. We are happily told in a weekly PR email which loans repaid last week and that all repaid loans have paid back in full. But I have no idea which are very overdue or if they have defaulted a loan. . Good point. This forum could be a useful tool to help if every investor listed his/her own non-performing loans. between us we should catch all or most of them. Maybe best in DD Central.
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Ace
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Post by Ace on May 14, 2021 13:51:55 GMT
From the loan details: - (The borrowers) are one of our established borrowers and they have owned the property for about 2 years - Cost of works is estimated at £1,900,000. Total costs are estimated at £4,112,000 including purchase price, construction costs, contingencies, fees and interest. - CrowdProperty has agreed to lend the borrower £1,450,000 as phase 1 of a 4 phase raise with phases 2 - 4 totalling a further £1,550,000 being set against the construction works. So if the borrower already owned the property and has not yet started on the works what has he done with the loan for the past 2.5 years, running up 20% accrued interest? (Loan started 3.10.2018) This is my biggest problem with CP. As a newer registered user of CP I cannot find out how many loans are overdue, or in fact any updates at all on loans that I am not invested in. We are happily told in a weekly PR email which loans repaid last week and that all repaid loans have paid back in full. But I have no idea which are very overdue or if they have defaulted a loan. At least with Lendy any registered user could see the status of all loans, with all updates and make a judgement on likely repayment. I am shocked by lack of transparency, hence my very small trial usage will not be expanded any time soon. CP's stats page states that there are just 2 loans that are currently over 180 days late, and there are no capital losses so far.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on May 14, 2021 15:02:21 GMT
This is my biggest problem with CP. As a newer registered user of CP I cannot find out how many loans are overdue, or in fact any updates at all on loans that I am not invested in. We are happily told in a weekly PR email which loans repaid last week and that all repaid loans have paid back in full. But I have no idea which are very overdue or if they have defaulted a loan. At least with Lendy any registered user could see the status of all loans, with all updates and make a judgement on likely repayment. I am shocked by lack of transparency, hence my very small trial usage will not be expanded any time soon. CP's stats page states that there are just 2 loans that are currently over 180 days late, and there are no capital losses so far. I fear this is CP playing semantics. Firstly they allow a large buffer after the expected completion of the project - usually a year - before they deem it late. Edit: Firstly they often allows a buffer of up to a year after the expected completion of the works, to allow for over-runs and sales of the completed units. Secondly in such a case they currently, at least during the Covid pandemic, often offer the borrower an extension and change the end date, consequently it is no longer classified as late. CP is still one of the safest platforms, but that is a long way from not the same as being safe.
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Ace
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Post by Ace on May 14, 2021 15:16:38 GMT
CP's stats page states that there are just 2 loans that are currently over 180 days late, and there are no capital losses so far. I fear this is CP playing semantics. Firstly they allow a large buffer after the expected completion of the project - usually a year - before they deem it late. Secondly in such a case they invariably offer the borrower an extension and change the end date so that it is no longer classified as late. CP is still one of the safest platforms, but that is a long way from being safe. Can you give any examples of this? My experience is that most of my late loans were considered late as soon as they pass their expected maturity date, and they pay lenders an extra 2% default interest from that date. A few have been allowed to go beyond the maturity date without penalty where it was deemed to be beyond the borrower's control. Where loans have been re-termed I've been given the opportunity to exit.
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mary
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Post by mary on May 14, 2021 18:42:41 GMT
This is my biggest problem with CP. As a newer registered user of CP I cannot find out how many loans are overdue, or in fact any updates at all on loans that I am not invested in. We are happily told in a weekly PR email which loans repaid last week and that all repaid loans have paid back in full. But I have no idea which are very overdue or if they have defaulted a loan. At least with Lendy any registered user could see the status of all loans, with all updates and make a judgement on likely repayment. I am shocked by lack of transparency, hence my very small trial usage will not be expanded any time soon. CP's stats page states that there are just 2 loans that are currently over 180 days late, and there are no capital losses so far. Arr “statistics”. If I recall correctly Lendy claimed, right to the end (and strictly correct by their definition) that No investor had ever lost money, until they did. I think total investor losses will be £100m+ on Lendy. All might be fine with CP, but the lack of transparency is a big red flag to me. I’m investing in BAT stock and taking a solid 8% dividend, at least I can exit immediately if I wish too.
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Ace
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Post by Ace on May 14, 2021 19:11:13 GMT
CP's stats page states that there are just 2 loans that are currently over 180 days late, and there are no capital losses so far. Arr “statistics”. If I recall correctly Lendy claimed, right to the end (and strictly correct by their definition) that No investor had ever lost money, until they did. I think total investor losses will be £100m+ on Lendy. All might be fine with CP, but the lack of transparency is a big red flag to me. I’m investing in BAT stock and taking a solid 8% dividend, at least I can exit immediately if I wish too. No need for the sarcasm. You said that you didn't know how to find out how many CP loans were overdue. I was merely pointing out that that info is available on their stats page by their definition of 180 days late. I agree that I would also like to see other stats, such as how many are 30 days late. I also think the way their loan updates get buried in un-searchable messages rather than being linked to the loan pages is extremely poor, and have pestered them over this multiple times. However, IMO, they've proved themselves to be trustworthy over 6 years of Lending. If there's something you specifically want to know, have you tried their CS. I've found them fairly amenable.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on May 14, 2021 20:44:30 GMT
I fear this is CP playing semantics. Firstly they allow a large buffer after the expected completion of the project - usually a year - before they deem it late. Secondly in such a case they invariably offer the borrower an extension and change the end date so that it is no longer classified as late. CP is still one of the safest platforms, but that is a long way from being safe. Can you give any examples of this? My experience is that most of my late loans were considered late as soon as they pass their expected maturity date, and they pay lenders an extra 2% default interest from that date. A few have been allowed to go beyond the maturity date without penalty where it was deemed to be beyond the borrower's control. Where loans have been re-termed I've been given the opportunity to exit. Sorry I was possibly not clear. The buffer, typically up to 12 months, is from the expected completion of the works, not the maturity date and is built into the loan term from the outset. So when it goes past the maturity date and they declare it late it is, in a sense, already a year late. Otherwise I agree with your points. I also agree with your reply to mary Nobody should be invested in p2p if they require assurance of capital return. Losses are inevitable but overall it can still give a better return than FSCS products.
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Ace
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Post by Ace on May 14, 2021 20:51:26 GMT
Can you give any examples of this? My experience is that most of my late loans were considered late as soon as they pass their expected maturity date, and they pay lenders an extra 2% default interest from that date. A few have been allowed to go beyond the maturity date without penalty where it was deemed to be beyond the borrower's control. Where loans have been re-termed I've been given the opportunity to exit. Sorry I was possibly not clear. The buffer, typically 12 months, is from the expected completion of the works, not the maturity date and is built into the loan term from the outset. So when it goes past the maturity date and they declare it late it is, in a sense, already a year late. Otherwise I agree with your points. If that were true, the average expected loan length would have to be 1 month, as the average loan term is 13 months. Or perhaps I'm just not understanding your point.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on May 14, 2021 21:00:38 GMT
Sorry I was possibly not clear. The buffer, typically 12 months, is from the expected completion of the works, not the maturity date and is built into the loan term from the outset. So when it goes past the maturity date and they declare it late it is, in a sense, already a year late. Otherwise I agree with your points. If that were true, the average expected loan length would have to be 1 month, as the average loan term is 13 months. Or perhaps I'm just not understanding your point. The stats page does say 13 months. Each investor's average will be different depending on which loans (s)he is in, and if it is a weighted average then on the amounts of each loan. My personal average is 30 months but this will not be typical. I suggest you calculate your own average and post it here for comparison.
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Ace
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Post by Ace on May 14, 2021 21:16:28 GMT
If that were true, the average expected loan length would have to be 1 month, as the average loan term is 13 months. Or perhaps I'm just not understanding your point. The stats page does say 13 months. Each investor's average will be different depending on which loans (s)he is in, and if it is a weighted average then on the amounts of each loan. My personal average is 30 months but this will not be typical. I suggest you calculate your own average and post it here for comparison. You've lost me. The FAQs state that terms are between 6 and 24 months. I can't find any loans with terms over 18 months.
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Post by multiaccountmanager on May 15, 2021 8:49:49 GMT
My largest account has 158 Pledges (33 repaid) in 127 Projects (37 repaid)
Currently the weighted average pledge length is 8.2 months.
11 pledges (9 projects) are past due date, on average 2 months, the worst one being 5 months.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on May 15, 2021 9:10:21 GMT
The stats page does say 13 months. Each investor's average will be different depending on which loans (s)he is in, and if it is a weighted average then on the amounts of each loan. My personal average is 30 months but this will not be typical. I suggest you calculate your own average and post it here for comparison. You've lost me. The FAQs state that terms are between 6 and 24 months. I can't find any loans with terms over 18 months. See OP for one. I suppose the FAQ, and possibly the 13 months on the stats, refers to the original term not the extended term. Edit: confirmed by CP.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Jun 7, 2021 12:22:19 GMT
CP have lost patience and are forcing the borrower to sell the undeveloped property. Since he has presumably used the funds on other projects and has racked up nearly 3 years interest and, again I presume, has not yet considered the redevelopment worth starting, and has been unable to raise the relatively modest sum that CP required before offering him a development loan, it does not look very promising.
I would love to be proved wrong.
EDIT: SEE 4TH POST ON PAGE 2
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