duck
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Post by duck on Jan 4, 2015 8:02:47 GMT
I'm slightly surprised (although fully understand) the slightly negative comments in this thread.
I'm all for choice and variety and this is potentially (await details) another alternative investment. I like Bigfoot12 have/do invest in the RS monthly market (personal and business) for liquidity purposes. I currently have @£70k invested on that market. I do not need that cash for another month or two so currently it will be reinvested. I too have bonds maturing so I will be looking for a 'home' later this month for another decent sum. A rolling 3 or 4 month investment (all be it at a lower interest rate) ticks a lot of boxes for me if the access is not restrictive.
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merlin
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Post by merlin on Jan 4, 2015 15:19:08 GMT
duck I for one am not negative about this proposed offering and I am sure this applies to other posters on this thread. It is just that many of us can see what we assess as better (more competitive) offerings elsewhere. I am sure that what AC are planning to do will suit a lot of investors and particularly those that are of the shoot and forget inclination who don't what to actively manage their investments.
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bg
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Post by bg on Jan 4, 2015 15:37:38 GMT
duck I for one am not negative about this proposed offering and I am sure this applies to other posters on this thread. It is just that many of us can see what we assess as better (more competitive) offerings elsewhere. I am sure that what AC are planning to do will suit a lot of investors and particularly those that are of the shoot and forget inclination who don't what to actively manage their investments. Out of interest who has a 'better' short term deposit offering?
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hendragon
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Post by hendragon on Jan 4, 2015 16:51:17 GMT
Unless I have misunderstood the nature of this account it will not be a short term loan. My understanding is that it will be a generic account investing across the board of all loans available with automatic re-investment very much like Wellesley. The components of the account may be short term but the account itself may be longer term. I have based this assumption on Stuart Law's comment about AC spreading the risk across investments.
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duck
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Post by duck on Jan 4, 2015 17:34:57 GMT
My post wasn't aimed at any individual, certainly not you merlin.
To me the 'term' will be the important part of this opportunity, I agree with your thoughts hendragon but if you are not investing in a particular loan (and therefore term) there has to be access of some kind available and it is that which will be of most interest to me. I accept that I could buy into 5 year loans and then put them on the aftermarket but that is too risky where Corporation Tax Bills (and similar) are concerned. Pure speculation at present .......
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Jan 4, 2015 20:48:30 GMT
AC started with very explicit statements about the inadequacy of platforms business plan assumptions regarding so called "provision funds", and how top grade asset security was superior in just about every respect.
On being challenged on their provision fund "protected" Green Energy Investment Account, and their change of policy, all that came back was "thinking changes".
No doubt that will be AC will always be "changing their thinking" as the platform develops. We can take it or leave it. Let's hope "old thinking" which is good is not automatically thrown out by "new thinking" (which may or may not be good) regardless. AC often ask our opinions, so I am optimistic that we will be always given a choice of opportunities which are more than competitive with alternative platform offerings.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Jan 4, 2015 22:24:52 GMT
AC started with very explicit statements about the inadequacy of platforms business plan assumptions regarding so called "provision funds", and how top grade asset security was superior in just about every respect. On being challenged on their provision fund "protected" Green Energy Investment Account, and their change of policy, all that came back was "thinking changes". No doubt that will be AC will always be "changing their thinking" as the platform develops. We can take it or leave it. Let's hope "old thinking" which is good is not automatically thrown out by "new thinking" (which may or may not be good) regardless. AC often ask our opinions, so I am optimistic that we will be always given a choice of opportunities which are more than competitive with alternative platform offerings. Very true observation. You can for example either have the GEIA with the PF but supposedly (or is it hopefully) these are already projects being offered with top grade asset security and then being put into the GEIA with a PF which may (or should) never be required. The PF is self financing from the lender/investor and once that tops out at 5% then any surplus goes to AC. In effect therefore with asset security and a provision fund you have double indemnity. The GEIA is really in my book for the passive lender/investor. The only unanswered question is in the (again hopefully) unlikely event that a lender should need to exit then what is the AC strategy. Are the to be redeemed GEIA loans placed at the back of the queue which may be overweight with UW's trying to offload or are they placed at the front.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jan 5, 2015 0:48:27 GMT
The GEIA is really in my book for the passive lender/investor. The only unanswered question is in the (again hopefully) unlikely event that a lender should need to exit then what is the AC strategy. Are the to be redeemed GEIA loans placed at the back of the queue which may be overweight with UW's trying to offload or are they placed at the front. Considering the market for which the GEIA appears to be best suited, IMHO AC are going to have to adopt the latter approach if they want the GEIA to be successful. If they don't, they will limit their audience to those investors looking for 3-year fixed-rate bonds. And the way things are at the moment, perhaps even fewer than that -- because an investor has very little control over how their money is deployed within a GEIA. Someone who invests today and sees their money invested in loans -- all of which mature within the next three years -- could find that two years from now their money has been 'rebalanced' into a completely different set of loans which still are three years from maturity. So AC need to make the exit path from the GEIA much clearer. A few people on the forum have experimented with the GEIA, including me. I've not tried to reduce my GEIA investment so I have no direct experience to report, but a couple of others have and their progress has been slow. One reported yesterday that his GEIA has not sold anything for three weeks.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 5, 2015 7:38:16 GMT
Unless I have misunderstood the nature of this account it will not be a short term loan. My understanding is that it will be a generic account investing across the board of all loans available with automatic re-investment very much like Wellesley. The components of the account may be short term but the account itself may be longer term. I have based this assumption on Stuart Law's comment about AC spreading the risk across investments. If it invests in invoices with a max term of (say) 90 days then it should be possible to liquidate the investment within 90 days (perhaps a little longer if the provision fund does not pay out immediately) which makes it relatively short term in my book. That does fill a need and I could well imagine putting a modest amount there although most of my funds will stay in longer-term higher-paying investments.
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koba
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Post by koba on Jan 5, 2015 8:49:23 GMT
I am not sure that the liquidity v rate tradeoff works for me I am afraid. There are just too many places with a similar level of risk boasting superior liquidity and return. Consider, for example, that you can purchase a diversified basket of preference shares via an ETF yielding 6-7% with almost no bid-offer spread, stable pricing and instant liquidity.
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Post by andrewholgate on Jan 5, 2015 9:29:04 GMT
5-7% wont interest me sufficiently enough to entice me back to AC while I can get better than 12% elsewhere. I also know I am not alone in my thinking as I continue to rub up against many other contributors to this site who have moved elsewhere.
My guess is that this offering is possibly aimed at the Building Society investor who is beginning to look for a better rate of return than .5% gross. I also guess that these rates reflect the additional costs to AC of buying into a franchise agreement with a very much bigger player. However I could be wrong? To clarify, this is a joint venture and not a franchise. AC and IFG own 50% each of the UK operation. A
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Post by andrewholgate on Jan 5, 2015 9:31:46 GMT
I too don't want to criticise AC but, , I do worry that all future accounts will come with a obligatory provision fund. On the one hand, AC rightly boasts of it's admirable controls on security producing zero losses for investors (so the PF will never be called upon) But then if accounts always come with a PF then really the PF is really just a insurance policy (or fee!) we have to pay for we'll never need. It isn't even a real insurance policy because it's doesn't guarantee to payout the full amount in extreme loss situations. Not all accounts will but we want to offer a variety of risk offerings for investors. Not all investors want the same level of risk, and as we edge towards ISA monies, a lower risk lower return offering is needed. As always we continue to listen to our lenders and what they want. The self managed investment accounts won't have provision funds.
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Post by andrewholgate on Jan 5, 2015 9:34:27 GMT
AC started with very explicit statements about the inadequacy of platforms business plan assumptions regarding so called "provision funds", and how top grade asset security was superior in just about every respect. On being challenged on their provision fund "protected" Green Energy Investment Account, and their change of policy, all that came back was "thinking changes". No doubt that will be AC will always be "changing their thinking" as the platform develops. We can take it or leave it. Let's hope "old thinking" which is good is not automatically thrown out by "new thinking" (which may or may not be good) regardless. AC often ask our opinions, so I am optimistic that we will be always given a choice of opportunities which are more than competitive with alternative platform offerings. The old thinking persists in that we take asset security on every loan. However, there will come an occasion when this in itself is not enough and the provision fund is a top up. We are not relying on a provision fund alone as some platforms do but on a combination of strong asset security and a provision fund. For those who are risk adverse, this combination offers a lower rate but better certainty of capital preservation.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 5, 2015 11:33:39 GMT
I am not sure that the liquidity v rate tradeoff works for me I am afraid. There are just too many places with a similar level of risk boasting superior liquidity and return. Consider, for example, that you can purchase a diversified basket of preference shares via an ETF yielding 6-7% with almost no bid-offer spread, stable pricing and instant liquidity. Stable pricing? Are you not exposed to large swings in capital value due to changes in [expected] interest rates? I have some prefs in my portfolio but I'm not rushing to add at the moment because I think the interest rate risk is pretty one-sided.
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merlin
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Post by merlin on Jan 5, 2015 15:15:07 GMT
My guess is that this offering is possibly aimed at the Building Society investor who is beginning to look for a better rate of return than .5% gross. I also guess that these rates reflect the additional costs to AC of buying into a franchise agreement with a very much bigger player. However I could be wrong? To clarify, this is a joint venture and not a franchise. AC and IFG own 50% each of the UK operation. A andrewholgate Yes I guess I was wrong about a franchise but the basic logic of my argument remains. In a true joint venture you share both the costs and the benefits and in the end split the profits 50/50. So to maintain your margin you have a number of choices and the obvious one is to offer your lenders lower returns.
As I said in my opening comment I wish you well and all those that invest in this product but it is not for me.
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