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Post by df on Feb 10, 2022 22:21:11 GMT
Another good example of AC maximising their returns whilst lenders suffer. #528 recently repaid leaving lenders with a small capital loss - £80k on £1.8M on a loan with a 46% LTGDV and PGs for 10%; however lenders also had a loss of interest of £400k whilst AC recovered c£100k in monitoring fees + a £36k arrangement fee. I've just looked and have result of #528 in my cash account today. I've made the withdrawal ASAP, leaves me less than £25 in AC down from at one point over £30k. Can't be too concerned about the losses overall getting out capital is the first priority, then with something to show for the years of using AC. Still hope to see something back from what's remaining. Main thing, got out well ahead with a trifle left behind, and little intention of returning to AC in it's current state.
Mine has gone down by 70% since the peak 2 years ago. I've never intended to reduce, with the exception of selling or reducing (at small discount) some of the riskier loans at the start of pandemic all my withdrawals were driven by large AA repayments and the lack of new loans to invest in MLA. My XIRR is 6.37% (5 years of investment). SM has been in starvation mode for quite a long time, this gives an extra layer of comfort. I don't feel it's the time to force myself out of AC, I'll go with a flow. So far the 'flow' looks like a wind down of my AC portfolio (my last deposit to AC was on 17/01/2020).
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Post by overthehill on Feb 11, 2022 9:33:22 GMT
I've just looked and have result of #528 in my cash account today. I've made the withdrawal ASAP, leaves me less than £25 in AC down from at one point over £30k. Can't be too concerned about the losses overall getting out capital is the first priority, then with something to show for the years of using AC. Still hope to see something back from what's remaining. Main thing, got out well ahead with a trifle left behind, and little intention of returning to AC in it's current state.
Mine has gone down by 70% since the peak 2 years ago. I've never intended to reduce, with the exception of selling or reducing (at small discount) some of the riskier loans at the start of pandemic all my withdrawals were driven by large AA repayments and the lack of new loans to invest in MLA. My XIRR is 6.37% (5 years of investment). SM has been in starvation mode for quite a long time, this gives an extra layer of comfort. I don't feel it's the time to force myself out of AC, I'll go with a flow. So far the 'flow' looks like a wind down of my AC portfolio (my last deposit to AC was on 17/01/2020).
Out of interest if you subtract the capital which is currently defaulted and accrued interest if included then how does that change your XIRR figure over 5 years ? XIRR is variable and theoretical until you remove your last £1 and close the account!
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Post by df on Feb 11, 2022 19:07:54 GMT
Mine has gone down by 70% since the peak 2 years ago. I've never intended to reduce, with the exception of selling or reducing (at small discount) some of the riskier loans at the start of pandemic all my withdrawals were driven by large AA repayments and the lack of new loans to invest in MLA. My XIRR is 6.37% (5 years of investment). SM has been in starvation mode for quite a long time, this gives an extra layer of comfort. I don't feel it's the time to force myself out of AC, I'll go with a flow. So far the 'flow' looks like a wind down of my AC portfolio (my last deposit to AC was on 17/01/2020).
Out of interest if you subtract the capital which is currently defaulted and accrued interest if included then how does that change your XIRR figure over 5 years ? XIRR is variable and theoretical until you remove your last £1 and close the account!
Accrued interest is not included. Subtracting defaults won't make it more accurate because default is not a crystallised loss. However, out of interest I subtracted defaults and XIRR shows as 5.75%.
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Post by Ace on Feb 18, 2022 0:11:09 GMT
Out of interest if you subtract the capital which is currently defaulted and accrued interest if included then how does that change your XIRR figure over 5 years ? XIRR is variable and theoretical until you remove your last £1 and close the account!
Accrued interest is not included. Subtracting defaults won't make it more accurate because default is not a crystallised loss. However, out of interest I subtracted defaults and XIRR shows as 5.75%. I've been with AC 3.5 years. The vast majority of my funds have been in the MLA, mostly in loans paying 8%+. My XIRR is currently 9.80% (ignoring accrued interest, but including bonuses/cashbacks). If I apply the current Capital Valuations to each loan to remove forecast losses, my XIRR drops to 7.27%. My balance is now just under a quarter of its peak. Total profit so far is equal to 79% of the current balance.
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ton27
Member of DD Central
Posts: 431 
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Post by ton27 on Feb 18, 2022 12:04:25 GMT
My experience with AC is similar although I have had funds in the Access and "Black Box" accounts so my returns are likely to be lower.
Funds on the platform are down by 60% of the peak and MLIA funds down by more than 75%. Using ACs Capital Values my interest received to date represents about 80% of the remaining funds and well over 100% of MLIA/Blackbox funds.Funds stuck in BB accounts are only 2%of the total. I haven't actively been trying to withdraw and still selectively investbut opportunities are few and generally only receive a small proportion of what I did for. Overall the result will be positive with my major concerns being some pretty awful (and often unexpected) recoveries and ACs inability/unwillingness to take responsibility for poor valuations/monitorringand to the way they give evasive answers in the Q and As.
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Post by overthehill on Feb 18, 2022 13:49:11 GMT
My experience with AC is similar although I have had funds in the Access and "Black Box" accounts so my returns are likely to be lower.
Funds on the platform are down by 60% of the peak and MLIA funds down by more than 75%. Using ACs Capital Values my interest received to date represents about 80% of the remaining funds and well over 100% of MLIA/Blackbox funds.Funds stuck in BB accounts are only 2%of the total. I haven't actively been trying to withdraw and still selectively investbut opportunities are few and generally only receive a small proportion of what I did for. Overall the result will be positive with my major concerns being some pretty awful (and often unexpected) recoveries and ACs inability/unwillingness to take responsibility for poor valuations/monitorringand to the way they give evasive answers in the Q and As.
P2P investors were frozen out and P2P lending was relegated to a profitable side hustle on top of their main government lending. The charm offensive is overdue but it will come when the government loans well dries up.
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ganymede
Member of DD Central
Posts: 304
Likes: 211
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Post by ganymede on Mar 1, 2022 11:43:36 GMT
Another good example of AC maximising their returns whilst lenders suffer. #528 recently repaid leaving lenders with a small capital loss - £80k on £1.8M on a loan with a 46% LTGDV and PGs for 10%; however lenders also had a loss of interest of £400k whilst AC recovered c£100k in monitoring fees + a £36k arrangement fee. I've just looked and have result of #528 in my cash account today. I've made the withdrawal ASAP, leaves me less than £25 in AC down from at one point over £30k. Can't be too concerned about the losses overall getting out capital is the first priority, then with something to show for the years of using AC. Still hope to see something back from what's remaining. Main thing, got out well ahead with a trifle left behind, and little intention of returning to AC in it's current state.
New month and my £25, has reduced to just under £10.50, there is this £87 accrued interest, and the £14 withdrawal request has been made, I like being able to select other reasons, this time it "Lost Faith in Assetz Capital".
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Post by overthehill on Mar 1, 2022 12:09:45 GMT
I've just looked and have result of #528 in my cash account today. I've made the withdrawal ASAP, leaves me less than £25 in AC down from at one point over £30k. Can't be too concerned about the losses overall getting out capital is the first priority, then with something to show for the years of using AC. Still hope to see something back from what's remaining. Main thing, got out well ahead with a trifle left behind, and little intention of returning to AC in it's current state.
New month and my £25, has reduced to just under £10.50, there is this £87 accrued interest, and the £14 withdrawal request has been made, I like being able to select other reasons, this time it "Lost Faith in Assetz Capital".
Assetzcapital's revenue and profits go up due to extra monitoring charges for most loans that gets into payment difficulties, the effective LTV and risk of those loans go up, investor's accrued interest goes up and becomes a 'promised' payment and investor's monthly income goes DOWN.
Do any other P2P companies operate this model ? Please let me know because I'll be exiting them as well.
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Post by Ace on Mar 1, 2022 13:33:54 GMT
New month and my £25, has reduced to just under £10.50, there is this £87 accrued interest, and the £14 withdrawal request has been made, I like being able to select other reasons, this time it "Lost Faith in Assetz Capital".
Assetzcapital's revenue and profits go up due to extra monitoring charges for most loans that gets into payment difficulties, the effective LTV and risk of those loans go up, investor's accrued interest goes up and becomes a 'promised' payment and investor's monthly income goes DOWN.
Do any other P2P companies operate this model ? Please let me know because I'll be exiting them as well.
I believe that Kuflink keep any penalty interest for themselves. They also take a much larger share of the standard borrower payments, though details of this seem to be missing from my latest self-select ISA loans, which I thought was a mandatory FCA requirement.
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Post by overthehill on Mar 1, 2022 13:45:54 GMT
Assetzcapital's revenue and profits go up due to extra monitoring charges for most loans that gets into payment difficulties, the effective LTV and risk of those loans go up, investor's accrued interest goes up and becomes a 'promised' payment and investor's monthly income goes DOWN.
Do any other P2P companies operate this model ? Please let me know because I'll be exiting them as well.
I believe that Kuflink keep any penalty interest for themselves. They also take a much larger share of the standard borrower payments, though details of this seem to be missing from my latest self-select ISA loans, which I thought was a mandatory FCA requirement.
A lot of the recent AC loans are around the 30% mark of borrower repayment. What about Kuflink ? Proplend is a fixed 10% not what they can squeeze from the investor per loan. Not sure if Kuflink have had any capital or interest losses yet but will they be taking this penalty interest before investor's capital and/or interest? AC have loans with capital valuations of 0% where they have already taken extra monitoring charges or whatever name it is given. Kuflink also invest in the loans but that may have stopped now ?
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Post by Ace on Mar 1, 2022 14:02:56 GMT
I believe that Kuflink keep any penalty interest for themselves. They also take a much larger share of the standard borrower payments, though details of this seem to be missing from my latest self-select ISA loans, which I thought was a mandatory FCA requirement.
A lot of the recent AC loans are around the 30% mark of borrower repayment. What about Kuflink ? Proplend is a fixed 10% not what they can squeeze from the investor per loan. Not sure if Kuflink have had any capital or interest losses yet but will they be taking this penalty interest before investor's capital and/or interest? AC have loans with capital valuations of 0% where they have already taken extra monitoring charges or whatever name it is given. Kuflink also invest in the loans but that may have stopped now ?
Kuflink seem to keep around 50% of the borrower interest. A quick look at 3 of my loans shows: Borrower pays 12% plus arrangement and admin fees, we get 6.8%, Borrower pays 13.2% plus arrangement and admin fees, we get 6.7%, Borrower pays 12% plus arrangement and admin fees, we get 6.9%. Kuflink still have a first loss stake in each loan of up to 5% of the loan. I'm not aware of any investor losses on Kuflink yet.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,315
Likes: 11,524
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 1, 2022 20:50:52 GMT
I believe that Kuflink keep any penalty interest for themselves. They also take a much larger share of the standard borrower payments, though details of this seem to be missing from my latest self-select ISA loans, which I thought was a mandatory FCA requirement.
A lot of the recent AC loans are around the 30% mark of borrower repayment. What about Kuflink ? Proplend is a fixed 10% not what they can squeeze from the investor per loan. Not sure if Kuflink have had any capital or interest losses yet but will they be taking this penalty interest before investor's capital and/or interest? AC have loans with capital valuations of 0% where they have already taken extra monitoring charges or whatever name it is given. Kuflink also invest in the loans but that may have stopped now ?
Last 12 months of loans 7 out of 41 are 30%+, with another 5 over 25%, 5 are under 10% --- average is 20% Not sure the evidence supports the argument of AC taking extra fees ... they have taken standard monitoring fees (and paid all the non-third party recovery/enforcement costs from them), though not in all cases where capital valuation is 0% (lots of outstanding monitoring fees listed), but the extra fees are subject to clause 11.7 in the t&cs.
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mogish
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,105
Likes: 527
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Post by mogish on Mar 1, 2022 21:30:04 GMT
I've just looked and have result of #528 in my cash account today. I've made the withdrawal ASAP, leaves me less than £25 in AC down from at one point over £30k. Can't be too concerned about the losses overall getting out capital is the first priority, then with something to show for the years of using AC. Still hope to see something back from what's remaining. Main thing, got out well ahead with a trifle left behind, and little intention of returning to AC in it's current state.
New month and my £25, has reduced to just under £10.50, there is this £87 accrued interest, and the £14 withdrawal request has been made, I like being able to select other reasons, this time it "Lost Faith in Assetz Capital". £310 outstanding, £400 accrued interest. 61p recieved today. Gave up selecting reason. I think withdrawal of such a small amount says it all.
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Post by overthehill on Mar 22, 2022 9:52:07 GMT
forum activity for AC has practically evaporated probably to AC's liking. AC say they have no intention to stop retail lending, that settles it then!
The risk/reward ratios are getting worse not better. 67% LTV and 5% interest based on the best case recovery scenario, the security drops by 50% for the worst case scenarios much less than the actual loan value. Never seen such a disparity. All in all another perfect loan for the blind accounts where there is no scrutiny and AC invest your money wisely.
Monitor your accrued/owed interest and loans you can't sell, it's one metric that differentiates the best P2P companies from the worst.
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dave4
Member of DD Central
Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
Posts: 1,056
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Post by dave4 on Mar 22, 2022 10:39:40 GMT
forum activity for AC has practically evaporated probably to AC's liking. AC say they have no intention to stop retail lending, that settles it then!
The risk/reward ratios are getting worse not better. 67% LTV and 5% interest based on the best case recovery scenario, the security drops by 50% for the worst case scenarios much less than the actual loan value. Never seen such a disparity. All in all another perfect loan for the blind accounts where there is no scrutiny and AC invest your money wisely.
Monitor your accrued/owed interest and loans you can't sell, it's one metric that differentiates the best P2P companies from the worst.
And yet the cash Que at the entrance persists.
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