hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Dec 3, 2021 19:29:57 GMT
Honestly if this isn’t the beginning of the end I’ll be surprised. Why did we wait 3 months for this? Pathetic.
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dh1
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Post by dh1 on Dec 3, 2021 20:04:29 GMT
I don't think this is the end for these loans. I do think it is the beginning of yet another very long drawn out capitalised interest/much lower repayments/much longer loan term/imposed higher risk debacle such as we have seen to an extent with other loans. Nothing new really.
The platform should reconsider its whole approach; especially as lenders will probably doing the same. I know I am.
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Dec 3, 2021 21:43:00 GMT
I was also expecting additional assets by way of security. I note that the shareholding will be transferred to Ablrate Recoveries by way of a pledge (so the shares won't actually be transferred at CH, and therefore, if it is ever necessary, a Court Order may be required to actually transfer the shares). Furthermore, Ablrate hasn't taken a corporate directorship of any of the FP companies.
Ablrate is now heavily involved in managing a complicated pub business as well as a complicated CHP / energy storage / portacabin business and I don't really think they have expertise in any of the above. I now feel like a quasi equity holder, and if that is the case, I want some of any potential upside too, and there is past precedence on ablrate for that - a previous loan that was substantially delayed / restructured received some form of ex-gratia / default interest, and we deserve the similar here.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Dec 3, 2021 21:53:14 GMT
Waited weeks for this and feel totally devastated.
I've discovered one can't trust any of these type of business people, who exaggerate, take lenders for a ride and provide inaccurate timeframes as par for the course. It's their modus operandi. It's how they successfully dupe people to go on the journey with them. All the while, they ensure they and their families always continue to live the life of riley no matter what - AF etc. live like they're swimming in money.
Therefore, as others have stated above, these loans will certainly cause anxiety to lenders for years to come. Expect excuses, delays, excuses, delays for years and years and years, as with a high ratio of other AB loans.
I very heavily loaned to AF - now, I'm kicking myself and feel like I was a total plonker for having had faith in AF and AB. The convoluted path to a potential recovery - fraught with risks at every stage of the journey - for these loans demonstrated just how high risk these and other AB loans were and are.
Lesson learned.
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Post by df on Dec 3, 2021 22:07:23 GMT
I don't think this is the end for these loans. I do think it is the beginning of yet another very long drawn out capitalised interest/much lower repayments/much longer loan term/imposed higher risk debacle such as we have seen to an extent with other loans. Nothing new really.
The platform should reconsider its whole approach; especially as lenders will probably doing the same. I know I am.
Yes, it's evident from ASMX... It's dangerous being overexposed to a single borrower. That's what ABL did and we are experiencing the result. The fault of both, ABL and lenders (including myself) who didn't follow the basic diversification rules.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Dec 3, 2021 23:25:04 GMT
Still a number of loans to be updated including the Bellweing loans. Need to work out somehow the value of the assets of these particular loans, less 25%, to see how it stands, compared to lenders funds. 111 & 113 are worth a fair bit. Indeed, how the other are resolved is an important factor overall. Regarding the value of our 'new pup' I would assume ablrate will have the curtesy to give us that information in considerably more detail than the current update.
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corto
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Post by corto on Dec 4, 2021 0:02:24 GMT
I don't think this is the end for these loans. I do think it is the beginning of yet another very long drawn out capitalised interest/much lower repayments/much longer loan term/imposed higher risk debacle such as we have seen to an extent with other loans. Nothing new really.
The platform should reconsider its whole approach; especially as lenders will probably doing the same. I know I am.
Yes, it's evident from ASMX... It's dangerous being overexposed to a single borrower. That's what ABL did and we are experiencing the result. The fault of both, ABL and lenders (including myself) who didn't follow the basic diversification rules. Not sure what you see on the ASMX. It rather looks like various loans went up a bit. Wouldn't that imply a certain trust?
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criston
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Post by criston on Dec 4, 2021 9:07:03 GMT
Still a number of loans to be updated including the Bellweing loans. Need to work out somehow the value of the assets of these particular loans, less 25%, to see how it stands, compared to lenders funds. 111 & 113 are worth a fair bit. Indeed, how the other are resolved is an important factor overall. Regarding the value of our 'new pup' I would assume ablrate will have the curtesy to give us that information in considerably more detail than the current update. Rofewoper loans total £5.6m including 6 months interest. Market price after all expenses need to be at least £7.4m. 111 was said to be worth £3m alone. How to separate 75% ownership on top of all existing securities would be an interesting exercise, if I read it right.
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TitoPuente
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Post by TitoPuente on Dec 4, 2021 10:36:48 GMT
Unless I missed it, there is no indication on when the Dncstr site will be operational.
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criston
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Post by criston on Dec 4, 2021 11:22:08 GMT
Even though over the last week we have had updates which just referred to delayed updates, it made a change to the way we had been treated previously & it was good to be kept informed.
However, just the Ropewoper loans have been dealt with so far.
To comply with their last update on Bellweing loans, with the same update 'no later than the end of this week', they have until Sunday night to give us the details or otherwise extend the timeframe. We shall see.
99/87/118/119/158 are down for an update in 'due course' whatever that means.
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KoR_Wraith
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Post by KoR_Wraith on Dec 4, 2021 17:41:58 GMT
This group has some significant sellable assets (eg. the operational S**mer Power site is valued at ~£2 million in the recent update); in light of the current cash crunch I would have hoped the group would consider selling off some of the family silver in order to support debt repayments and reduce further leveraging.
Better a considered asset reduction than an administrator forced sale...
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Post by df on Dec 4, 2021 18:53:39 GMT
Yes, it's evident from ASMX... It's dangerous being overexposed to a single borrower. That's what ABL did and we are experiencing the result. The fault of both, ABL and lenders (including myself) who didn't follow the basic diversification rules. Not sure what you see on the ASMX. It rather looks like various loans went up a bit. Wouldn't that imply a certain trust? A large chunk of loan book is missing from ASMX and most loans are offered at discount. Many AC*'s are offered in the area of 94-95%, which is lower than at the lockdown time. I don't mistrust ABL, but it doesn't look like there's much enthusiasm from investor's side at the moment. The status of SM is always a good indicator of platform's performance, may not be accurate, but gives some idea. I remember COL, SS(Lendy), FS and MT - not long before going into administration their SM's status were very indicative.
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GreenZero
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The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second mouse who gets the cheese
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Post by GreenZero on Dec 4, 2021 20:24:37 GMT
Am I correct in thinking abl only receive their commission when the borrower makes their full monthly payment? If this is the case, abl won't or shouldn't have received any income from the AF loans for 3mths now, with nothing on the horizon for a further 3? Surely this must be hurting.
I think some clarity over this situation is needed.
What was known when loan 165 was drawn down?
75.2% of ownership of F*******r Ltd has passed to abl but seemingly not the shares. Are abl charging or receiving a fee for this? If so, how much?
On 7/9/21 the F*****n G***p Company Update stated "I am proposing to offer further security within my personal holdings and my group of companies to give comfort to lenders that we are working towards a solution for settlement / resumption of the loan payments." I have not seen any further security provided from his personal holdings.
Previous admin note of 22/10 suggested payments in respect of 137/ 149/ 151/ 152/154/ 155 should have resuming around now, but there is no mention of this.
Exactly why can't any payments be made? In the company update 7/9/21 AF wrote "For the avoidance of doubt, we still fully intend to continue sending payments over the next three months if cashflow permits. We have various income streams within the group of businesses and are working on various transactions that could see us deliver payments sooner."
Has the 'open marketing sales test of assets' been concluded?
I have a bad feeling about this. Yes, there appears to be a lot of high value assets, however when it comes to sell, they often turn in to white elephants, gather dust, depreciate, before eventually getting sold off cheap, often to the same company who went bust, just in another name.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Dec 4, 2021 21:15:58 GMT
As far as I am concerned the update is a complete negative disaster. At least if there had been some actual additional security I might have been slightly reassured. I’m now exiting ABLrate completely. Have seen this story too many times in P2P already.
If AF turned out to be a other Bury football manager I would not be surprised.
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corto
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Post by corto on Dec 4, 2021 23:17:13 GMT
Not sure what you see on the ASMX. It rather looks like various loans went up a bit. Wouldn't that imply a certain trust? A large chunk of loan book is missing from ASMX and most loans are offered at discount. Many AC*'s are offered in the area of 94-95%, which is lower than at the lockdown time. I don't mistrust ABL, but it doesn't look like there's much enthusiasm from investor's side at the moment. The status of SM is always a good indicator of platform's performance, may not be accurate, but gives some idea. I remember COL, SS(Lendy), FS and MT - not long before going into administration their SM's status were very indicative. OK. I agree with the gist. Thought you might have detected a change in the ASMX in response to the papers published 3rd Dec.
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