zlb
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Post by zlb on Dec 29, 2021 12:37:54 GMT
sorry to ask, previously I've entered P2P under the gilts section of tax return, now I can't find that, but there is the "Did you receive any other UK income, for example, employment lump sums, share schemes, life insurance gains?" Is this it, this time? I've tried googling it, just get info on requirement to submit income, not about where or how....
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jonno
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Post by jonno on Dec 29, 2021 12:50:00 GMT
sorry to ask, previously I've entered P2P under the gilts section of tax return, now I can't find that, but there is the "Did you receive any other UK income, for example, employment lump sums, share schemes, life insurance gains?" Is this it, this time? I've tried googling it, just get info on requirement to submit income, not about where or how.... That is certainly where I've put it for the this return and last year's, and had no comeback.(I also noted in the box that it was net p2p income)
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Dec 29, 2021 12:52:23 GMT
I've always put it under "untaxed interest".
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Dec 29, 2021 13:00:09 GMT
I've always put it under "untaxed interest". I got my wrist slapped for that by HMRC. Should be under the Gilt edged and other UK securities etc, box 3 Gross amount before tax, goodness knows why. I'm never sure what to do with nearly P2P like Somo?
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Dec 29, 2021 13:03:13 GMT
It goes under Other UK income, Interest from gilt-edged and other UK securities, deeply discounted securities and accrued income profits. ( First box under other income IIRC) It's not mentioned but if you read the attached guidance notes it is. It goes there because P2P loans are classed as securities in some circumstances. Gross because P2P has an exemption to be treated like interest for tax purposes (ie tax not deducted at source) but it's a net figure because you can deduct any eligible losses.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Dec 29, 2021 16:17:57 GMT
It goes under Other UK income, Interest from gilt-edged and other UK securities, deeply discounted securities and accrued income profits. ( First box under other income IIRC) It's not mentioned but if you read the attached guidance notes it is. It goes there because P2P loans are classed as securities in some circumstances. Gross because P2P has an exemption to be treated like interest for tax purposes (ie tax not deducted at source) but it's a net figure because you can deduct any eligible losses. I agree that's where it goes, but only because that's where the guidance says to put it! The received wisdom is that p2p loans are not securities but "simple debts", the main reason IMO being that they can be redeemed at par without notice. In this regard, HMRC's Capital Gains Manual states at CG53429 (NB "security" and "debt on a security" are essentially synonymous for tax purposes): "You cannot say that a debt is not a debt on a security simply because it can be repaid at short notice. But it is reasonable to suggest that in such cases there should be some compensation for the creditor to counterbalance the uncertainty as to the term of the loan. For example, a penalty can turn an otherwise uncertain, and therefore inherently unattractive, loan into a worthwhile investment. If a loan can be repaid at short notice, but there is no compensating benefit for the creditor, this would count against accepting the loan as a debts on a security." [emphasis added] It is open to debate as to whether this is sufficient grounds to treat p2p loans as simple debts, but it is clear that HMRC accepts the position because SAIM 12210 "Interaction of peer to peer tax relief with Capital Gains Tax" includes the following: "A small proportion of peer to peer (P2P) loans have been historically eligible for relief as a capital loss under Taxation of Chargeable Gains Act (TCGA 1992).
This may be the case for peer to peer loans that have been assigned to another person (more details in the Capital gains manual at CG53480), or for ‘loans to a trader’ (more details at CG65900)."The first statement in the second sentence applies only to debts that are not securities (including simple debts), and the second statement applies only to simple debts. I would add that if p2p loans were securities, p2p loans in £ to UK companies would all be qualifying corporate bonds (QCBs), with significant consequences for UK individual taxpayers: (i) interest would be taxed under the accrued income scheme, whereby accrued interest to the date of sale would be brought into tax for the seller and excluded from tax for the buyer, and (ii) they are exempt from GCT, so there would have been no tax relief for losses in any circumstances, prior to the introduction of income tax loss relief. I have never seen it seriously suggested that either (i) or (ii) would apply.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Jan 24, 2022 12:59:11 GMT
It goes under Other UK income, Interest from gilt-edged and other UK securities, deeply discounted securities and accrued income profits. ( First box under other income IIRC) It's not mentioned but if you read the attached guidance notes it is. It goes there because P2P loans are classed as securities in some circumstances. Gross because P2P has an exemption to be treated like interest for tax purposes (ie tax not deducted at source) but it's a net figure because you can deduct any eligible losses.
Yep, trying to get my straight now.
I quote,
I made the mistake of deleting that section in "Tailor your Return" so I couldn't find it
More up to date screenshot of the section:
TO BE ADDED
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eeyore
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Post by eeyore on Jan 24, 2022 13:27:41 GMT
Download needs user to be logged-in, so for those of us who can't be bothered to login, here's a link to the HMRC originals (both the Notes and the Form itself): www.gov.uk/government/publications/self-assessment-additional-information-sa101PS: I've always just added my P2P interest to the interest received from banks & building societies and had no problems - my HMRC Self Assessment Statement for 2020/21 arrived last week with the comforting words "You have nothing to pay", so it looks like it's been accepted for last year too. I'd guess this is only an issue when HMRC decide to do an audit...
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 24, 2022 14:54:49 GMT
... PS: I've always just added my P2P interest to the interest received from banks & building societies and had no problems - my HMRC Self Assessment Statement for 2020/21 arrived last week with the comforting words "You have nothing to pay", so it looks like it's been accepted for last year too. I'd guess this is only an issue when HMRC decide to do an audit...I've made the same mistake in the past in my online returns and had no problem. However, it's probably only a matter of time before online filings are checked automatically for this kind of discrepancy. As far as manual returns are concerned, here is a cautionary tale: I made some p2p investments for my elderly mother and told her (mistakenly) to include the p2p interest with her bank and BS interest. Until last year she was doing her tax returns herself and frequently made (other) mistakes. Whether for that reason or otherwise, HMRC has been correcting her returns, replacing her numbers for pensions and bank/BS interest with the ones reported to them by the relevant institutions. HMRC's "corrections" have had the effect of excluding her p2p interest, as a result of which she's underpaid her tax for the last several years. It does not seem to have occurred to them to ask why her figures were larger. I now have power of attorney and will be dealing with my mother's tax myself. Once HMRC have processed my application to register my power of attorney with them (currently waiting 6 months and counting) I will have the dubious pleasure of reopening her last 6 years computations...
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corto
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Post by corto on Jan 24, 2022 16:15:42 GMT
Well, if they do decide to do an audit I guess you would not be amused.
Reminds me that VWRL has reported Excess Reported income last tax year, which technically needs to be reported (as foreign dividends)
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corto
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Post by corto on Jan 24, 2022 16:24:04 GMT
It goes under Other UK income, Interest from gilt-edged and other UK securities, deeply discounted securities and accrued income profits. ( First box under other income IIRC) It's not mentioned but if you read the attached guidance notes it is. It goes there because P2P loans are classed as securities in some circumstances. Gross because P2P has an exemption to be treated like interest for tax purposes (ie tax not deducted at source) but it's a net figure because you can deduct any eligible losses. If you are with Capital Rise, I believe they regular sell some of their products as deeply discounted securities.
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corto
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Post by corto on Jan 24, 2022 16:29:23 GMT
... PS: I've always just added my P2P interest to the interest received from banks & building societies and had no problems - my HMRC Self Assessment Statement for 2020/21 arrived last week with the comforting words "You have nothing to pay", so it looks like it's been accepted for last year too. I'd guess this is only an issue when HMRC decide to do an audit...I've made the same mistake in the past in my online returns and had no problem. However, it's probably only a matter of time before online filings are checked automatically for this kind of discrepancy. As far as manual returns are concerned, here is a cautionary tale: I made some p2p investments for my elderly mother and told her (mistakenly) to include the p2p interest with her bank and BS interest. Until last year she was doing her tax returns herself and frequently made (other) mistakes. Whether for that reason or otherwise, HMRC has been correcting her returns, replacing her numbers for pensions and bank/BS interest with the ones reported to them by the relevant institutions. HMRC's "corrections" have had the effect of excluding her p2p interest, as a result of which she's underpaid her tax for the last several years. It does not seem to have occurred to them to ask why her figures were larger. I now have power of attorney and will be dealing with my mother's tax myself. Once HMRC have processed my application to register my power of attorney with them (currently waiting 6 months and counting) I will have the dubious pleasure of reopening her last 6 years computations... If you can document larger reported figures they'd probably accept yours and apologise.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 24, 2022 16:36:11 GMT
It goes under Other UK income, Interest from gilt-edged and other UK securities, deeply discounted securities and accrued income profits. ( First box under other income IIRC) It's not mentioned but if you read the attached guidance notes it is. It goes there because P2P loans are classed as securities in some circumstances. Gross because P2P has an exemption to be treated like interest for tax purposes (ie tax not deducted at source) but it's a net figure because you can deduct any eligible losses. If you are with Capital Rise, I believe they regular sell some of their products as deeply discounted securities. Im not but doesnt surprise me. However, they arent a P2P platform as they dont have article 36h permission
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