cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
Posts: 2,853 
Likes: 4,298
|
Post by cooling_dude on May 6, 2016 11:45:14 GMT
Presumably three members of the same family. It's the last set of initials that I came across on my aforementioned Google search. Yes; the same that I found Seems this is a partnership, which includes 3 members of the same family. The same partnership had an "Appointment of Administrators" on 20 November 2014. Nothing after that, so I assume all was sorted out.
|
|
cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
Posts: 2,853
Likes: 4,298
|
Post by cooling_dude on May 6, 2016 11:54:05 GMT
Also, there is another partnership (details on web listings) that omits the aforementioned last initials.
|
|
sam i am
Member of DD Central
Posts: 697
Likes: 555
|
Post by sam i am on May 6, 2016 12:54:39 GMT
Dig a little deeper and there is an interesting and somewhat unfortunate story about the farm business (the Three Devon Farms loan). It is reported that there has been a long dispute with Defra which had caused financial difficulties. The dispute was ultimately won and compensation due but it is not known how much or when. The article I discovered is over a year old so maybe all has now been resolved and the future of the farm business which seemed in some doubt may now be more secure. I don't want to write any more here and I certainly don't want to identify the borrower on this forum but it shouldn't take too long to find if you use the information provided by SS.
|
|
locutus
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,059
Likes: 1,622
|
Post by locutus on May 6, 2016 13:24:44 GMT
Dig a little deeper and there is an interesting and somewhat unfortunate story about the farm business (the Three Devon Farms loan). It is reported that there has been a long dispute with Defra which had caused financial difficulties. The dispute was ultimately won and compensation due but it is not known how much or when. The article I discovered is over a year old so maybe all has now been resolved and the future of the farm business which seemed in some doubt may now be more secure. I don't want to write any more here and I certainly don't want to identify the borrower on this forum but it shouldn't take too long to find if you use the information provided by SS. Will you be investing?
|
|
sam i am
Member of DD Central
Posts: 697
Likes: 555
|
Post by sam i am on May 6, 2016 14:00:07 GMT
Having read the article and now re-read the loan particulars, it starts to hang together a bit more now. The loan particulars say "****** Farm was run as a commercial dairy farm until June 2015..." (my bold). It's easy to miss the relevance of the past tense when skim-reading it the first time. So it would appear that the farm business didn't survive and this is linked to the appointment of administrators.
I'm not sure how much importance this has. My initial question (as with all loans) is whether we have a creditworthy borrower. I guess we have to make up our own minds about this. Then it comes down to the security of the loan. The assets here include dwellings as well as farmland. And then we have exit strategy. It appears that this is a quick, temporary loan to take advantage of debt reduction before refinancing elsewhere. But how sure can we be that alternative financing can be found. And what happens if not?
Don't know yet if I'll invest in this one. In any case I prefer smaller loans (£1m - £2m is my sweet spot where you can get a significant chunk if you want it but demand significantly exceeds supply if you want to diversify later). At £3.7m, this loan is at the upper end of my comfort zone. Bring on the Newcastle-under-Lyme student development and the single Devon farm.
|
|
cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
Posts: 2,853
Likes: 4,298
|
Post by cooling_dude on May 6, 2016 14:01:02 GMT
Dig a little deeper and there is an interesting and somewhat unfortunate story about the farm business (the Three Devon Farms loan). It is reported that there has been a long dispute with Defra which had caused financial difficulties. The dispute was ultimately won and compensation due but it is not known how much or when. The article I discovered is over a year old so maybe all has now been resolved and the future of the farm business which seemed in some doubt may now be more secure. I don't want to write any more here and I certainly don't want to identify the borrower on this forum but it shouldn't take too long to find if you use the information provided by SS. What troubles me is the LTD business that is connected to one of the partners that has 2.5m + Debt, with the administrators currently handling the debt (Most recent Administrator's progress report on 22 March 2016). The bulk amount of the above debt is owed to Clydesdale Bank...
|
|
cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
Posts: 2,853
Likes: 4,298
|
Post by cooling_dude on May 6, 2016 14:53:02 GMT
What troubles me is the LTD business that is connected to one of the partners that has 2.5m + Debt, with the administrators currently handling the debt (Most recent Administrator's progress report on 22 March 2016). The bulk amount of the above debt is owed to Clydesdale Bank... The second two partners are directors of an ltd where the most recent administrator's report is dated 25 April 2016 and two charges are held by CBank. Not sure if this is the same or different to the ltd you've found. Yes, that does sound like the same one (the most recent Administrator's progress report on 22 March 2016, but published on 25 Apr 2016). Also, it seems that BOTH the Ltd company and partnership is linked, and are both in administration (as noted by the "Statement of administrator's proposal" 15/01/15) I can't get my head around the situation here, sounds like the borrower is juggling debt and is using a bridging loan as a stepping stone...
|
|
|
|
Post by earthbound on May 6, 2016 15:03:22 GMT
Could it be loans taken out by the ltd's and secured against the farms, it says on SS overview.
"The borrower is able to take advantage of a debt reduction being offered by Clydesdale Bank for a quick refinance. Once refinanced away from CBank, the borrower will be able to remortgage with another high street or specialist lender."
|
|
cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
Posts: 2,853
Likes: 4,298
|
Post by cooling_dude on May 6, 2016 15:04:28 GMT
savingstream Are you sure that you would have first charge of the security listed in the overview? In the letter (entitled "Statement of administrator's proposal") attached to the companies house website for the LTD company linked to this borrower, it lists all three farms (and the land), and states One of those creditors is Clydesdale Bank, to the tune of £2,878,000, who served notice on the Company and Partnership.
|
|
mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on May 6, 2016 15:06:48 GMT
I can't get my head around the situation here, sounds like the borrower is juggling debt and is using a bridging loan as a stepping stone... Quite possibly. But to where? Salvation? Or Purgatory? Heaven? Or...?
|
|
|
|
Post by earthbound on May 6, 2016 15:24:23 GMT
Pure coincidence.. But i ran my business through Yorkshire bank (owned by clydesdale bank) and they always insisted that i also used my home as security to fund my next property project.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,337
Likes: 11,562
|
Post by ilmoro on May 6, 2016 15:45:49 GMT
savingstream Are you sure that you would have first charge of the security listed in the overview? In the letter (entitled "Statement of administrator's proposal") attached to the companies house website for the LTD company linked to this borrower, it lists all three farms (and the land), and states One of those creditors is Clydesdale Bank, to the tune of £2,878,000, who served notice on the Company and Partnership. But isnt that the whole point of the loans - Clydesdale have agreed to accept a certain sum to settle their claims - the SS loan will pay off Clydesdale and take a first charge on the now unencumbered security. [Note I havent looked at any of the info - just my interpretation of the facts posted] Banks like certainty which this offers them as opposed to the vagaries of the market
|
|
dovap
Member of DD Central
Posts: 467
Likes: 410
|
Post by dovap on May 6, 2016 15:54:33 GMT
Bring on the Newcastle-under-Lyme student development and the single Devon farm. can't find a juicy back story for the single devon 'farm' on a quick look but a valuation document does come up valuing the whole place at 1.3 mill be an interesting compare and contrast
|
|
cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
Posts: 2,853
Likes: 4,298
|
Post by cooling_dude on May 6, 2016 16:41:23 GMT
savingstream Are you sure that you would have first charge of the security listed in the overview? In the letter (entitled "Statement of administrator's proposal") attached to the companies house website for the LTD company linked to this borrower, it lists all three farms (and the land), and states One of those creditors is Clydesdale Bank, to the tune of £2,878,000, who served notice on the Company and Partnership. But isnt that the whole point of the loans - Clydesdale have agreed to accept a certain sum to settle their claims - the SS loan will pay off Clydesdale and take a first charge on the now unencumbered security. [Note I havent looked at any of the info - just my interpretation of the facts posted] Banks like certainty which this offers them as opposed to the vagaries of the market Yes, but why? There is £5,300,000 worth of security (at least), and banks aren't historical known for being sentimental towards borrowers. Why has the bank not just forced a sale; if the valuation is correct they would easily recuperate what is owed to them. Furthermore, I wonder if they would even be able to refinance with another bank? After all, on paper it doesn't look good; Clydesdale have put the company into administration, the company has had issues with HSBC in the past and the farming industry isn't exactly considered to be stable at the moment. At the end of the day; if SS get first charge, that's great (and vital). However 70% LTV on farmland isn't great; a quick sale in the event of a failed 2nd refinance is going to be hard at full value... I eagerly await the valuation report.
|
|
|
|
Post by meledor on May 6, 2016 16:59:26 GMT
It is important to remember that the farms are owned by the partnership not the limited company which owns the herd of cattle plus plant and equipment. Clydesdale Bank made loans to both the partnership and the company.
This story is a sad reflection of the impact of TB on cattle farming.
|
|
