michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 17, 2024 13:49:39 GMT
Probably not given the fondness to eliminate the opposition. There is no doubt he remains popular and that is an uncomfortable truth we need to work with. It's easy to be popular when there's no independent media, and when there's no opposition. Until the advent of social media*, there wasn't much independent media over here either. Historically been run by the likes of Murdoch, Daroch, Barclays, etc. i.e. A tiny number of very wealthy people having enormous sway of the politicians of the day. * - no saying its independent but it has dramatically softened the effect that the others have.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 17, 2024 13:56:37 GMT
I see that lots of young Ukranian men have gone into hiding to avoid conscription. I wonder if they believe that somebody else should be fighting their war for them, or if they believe Russia should simply be allowed to walk in and take whatever they like.
Wow - so simple when you personally are not asked to make that decision.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 17, 2024 14:01:07 GMT
It's easy to be popular when there's no independent media, and when there's no opposition. Until the advent of social media*, there wasn't much independent media over here either. Historically been run by the likes of Murdoch, Daroch, Barclays, etc. i.e. A tiny number of very wealthy people having enormous sway of the politicians of the day. * - no saying its independent but it has dramatically softened the effect that the others have. There's a world of difference between a bunch of wealthy proprietors pointing individual newspapers in pursuit of their own aims, and the government having an absolute monopoly. If you think that the UK media has always been fawningly uncritical to the government of the day, you haven't been paying attention. Also, you appear to be ignoring the other news outlets that hasn't been vanity projects for the wealthy - BBC, ITV, Ch4, Guardian, etc.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 17, 2024 14:07:57 GMT
I see that lots of young Ukranian men have gone into hiding to avoid conscription. I wonder if they believe that somebody else should be fighting their war for them, or if they believe Russia should simply be allowed to walk in and take whatever they like.
Wow - so simple when you personally are not asked to make that decision. I dread to think what state this country would be in if young British men had shown the same attitude during 2 world wars.
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k6
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Post by k6 on Jun 17, 2024 14:11:14 GMT
Wow - so simple when you personally are not asked to make that decision. I dread to think what state this country would be in if young British men had shown the same attitude during 2 world wars. Two world Wars you saying . . . ok, since we leaving in a different time lets try to imagine the attitude of young British men going to war NOW, Shall we ?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 17, 2024 14:11:36 GMT
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 17, 2024 14:57:41 GMT
It's easy to be popular when there's no independent media, and when there's no opposition. Until the advent of social media*, there wasn't much independent media over here either. Historically been run by the likes of Murdoch, Daroch, Barclays, etc. i.e. A tiny number of very wealthy people having enormous sway of the politicians of the day. * - no saying its independent but it has dramatically softened the effect that the others have. that is true, but only to a degree. Yes the main media paper media sources were in a relatively small number of hands. However there was competition between them, and there was both scope, and they did across the full breadth of publications, to represent a range of political views and support for different parties. And of course there was/is still scope for papers from the Socialist Workers Party for example. That might be an 'outlier' but largely only because few people want to actually buy it. And then of course there is the BBC, which has forever been accused of being biased against the government in power, regardless of what shade that government is at any time. [But in practise has overall been as near independent and fair handed in its reporting as you could get].
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 17, 2024 15:22:29 GMT
Wow - so simple when you personally are not asked to make that decision. I dread to think what state this country would be in if young British men had shown the same attitude during 2 world wars. WW1 - what contempt was shown to those soldiers who were mowed down by german machine guns. I'd like to think I'd sign up should WW2 repeat itself but its still my decision and if that reality actually hit home you might act different to how you think. In particular, I have no shame admitting my family and I first, country second.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 17, 2024 15:51:37 GMT
I see that lots of young Ukranian men have gone into hiding to avoid conscription. I wonder if they believe that somebody else should be fighting their war for them, or if they believe Russia should simply be allowed to walk in and take whatever they like.
it is hardly surprising that many young (and presumably older) men are doing everything possible to avoid conscription. Its hardly an attractive proposition. It must be bloody terrifying for them. At its worst, it seems the front line is a bit like a cross between WW1 and The Terminator. Who of us knows what we would do - or would have done in our youth - if we were confronted with this. We might like to think that we would do x or y, but would we.
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 17, 2024 18:51:44 GMT
I see that lots of young Ukranian men have gone into hiding to avoid conscription. I wonder if they believe that somebody else should be fighting their war for them, or if they believe Russia should simply be allowed to walk in and take whatever they like.
it is hardly surprising that many young (and presumably older) men are doing everything possible to avoid conscription. Its hardly an attractive proposition. It must be bloody terrifying for them. At its worst, it seems the front line is a bit like a cross between WW1 and The Terminator. Who of us knows what we would do - or would have done in our youth - if we were confronted with this. We might like to think that we would do x or y, but would we. We are fortunate that for us this is just a thought experiment. There must be a big difference in what you choose to do if you think you will be fully trained and appropriately armed and joining an experienced unit, or if munitions are running out and raw conscripts are being sacrificed to fill the gaps. Ukraine has weathered just such a storm and managed to hold on. By now you would expect the supply pathways to be reestablished and training to be properly organised. Where you night gave hesitated to join up six months ago, if people have been doing their jobs there should be more confidence now.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 17, 2024 19:43:35 GMT
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 17, 2024 19:57:13 GMT
Be as much point reading that as reading an RT article on how long Putin's reign should continue.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 17, 2024 20:02:13 GMT
Be as much point reading that as reading an RT article on how long Putin's reign should continue. OK. What Ukrainian news sources do you trust?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 17, 2024 20:20:44 GMT
Be as much point reading that as reading an RT article on how long Putin's reign should continue. OK. What Ukrainian news sources do you trust? My wife but must admit that may not be the best thing to do. As for the story about men being picked up from the streets (hardly news since its been going on for weeks) I'm going to hear virtually first hand soon as BIL is going back after almost 2 years in the UK (with us). He has a genuine medical exception but still a worry for t'other half of the family.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 17, 2024 20:28:14 GMT
OK. What Ukrainian news sources do you trust? My wife but must admit that may not be the best thing to do. As for the story about men being picked up from the streets (hardly news since its been going on for weeks) I'm going to hear virtually first hand soon as BIL is going back after almost 2 years in the UK (with us). He has a genuine medical exception but still a worry for t'other half of the family. I understand that, and you and your family have my sympathies. But no thoughts on the commentary in the article about the Ukrainian constitution, or the validity and legitimacy of the polls mentioned?
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