War in Ukraine (Previously - Will there be War?)

I always assumed they were a bit more convincing and less transparent.

If he's paid, they should ask for their money back.

I find the response of these individuals rather amusing, as far as I am concerned they can say what they want. To be honest they are victims of all the propaganda that is spewed out 24/7 by the MSM and are basically brain-washed. At certain times in the past the peasant mentality of not doing too much thinking for yourself and doing whatever the Lord of the Manor says has been the best way to survive - however when you have a government that is not acting in your interests you have to learn to work things out for yourself and not believe everything they tell you.

Umm, just to clarify - assuming you meant "liberal" with a capital L... I am not a member of any political party at all, and my community activities are totally apolitical.

If you did indeed mean "liberal" with a lower-case L, then thank you for the compliment. The dictionary definition of the word is "open to new ideas, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; not bound by traditional thinking; broad-minded"

Nor have I said that Mr Angry is unwelcome here. He is a boringly monomaniacial shill for Putin's militaristic expansionism, but I suspect that's actually unwitting - he is simply gullible enough to believe the conspiracists he sources his "non-mainstream" media from.

If you find interesting what he writes then by no means enjoy reading it. I'm old enough to not fall for any putler / trump / brexit rubbish. I don't care that he does not care. It is clear he supports putler - trump combo. I can clearly see his way of writing posts and if others don't then that is fine and you free to support Brexit thinking that was a will of people. 

Let's just recap the fairly relevant timeline, and you tell me what I'm missing...

1945 - Ukraine SSR becomes founder member of UN, one of only two Soviet SSRs to do so
Aug 1991 - Chairman Kravchuk, leader of Ukrainian SSR, resigns from Communist Party in support of Gorbachev after coup that brings President Yeltsin
Dec 1991 - Ukraine gets independence from USSR following overwhelming referendum (92%), President Kravchuk, serious economic decline
1992 - Kravchuk gives up rights to ex-USSR nuclear arsenal situated on territory
1993 - Yeltsin dissolves parliament using military force, installs rule by decree
1994 - President Kuchma, Russian-leaning, serious corruption. Ukraine joins NATO Partnership for Peace
1997 - NATO-Ukraine Commission
Aug 1999 - PM Putin
Sep 1999 - Apartment bombings in Russia, blamed on Chechens, widely believed to be false-flag organised by Putin
Jan 2000 - Yeltsin resigns
May 2000 - President Putin, first act to give life-long immunity from prosecution to Yeltsin
2002 - NATO-Ukraine Action Plan. Russian theatre hijack by Chechens, 130 hostages killed and almost all remainder injured by Russian forces using gas in "rescue"
2004 - President Yanukovych (supported by Kuchma and Russia), alleged vote-rigging. "Orange Revolution", election re-run, President Yuschenko (western-leaning)
2005 - Ukraine joins NATO's Intensified Dialogue
2010 - President Yanukovych, Western-leaning vote split between Yuschenko & Timushenko. Ukraine abandons NATO membership, official Neutrality, but continues co-operation
2011 - Timushenko jailed, widely regarded as politically-motivated
2013 - Yanukovych refuses to sign EU co-operation agreement, looks for closer ties with Russia instead, EuroMaidan
Feb 2014 - Parliament removes Yanukovich, who flees to Russia
Mar 2014 - Russia annexes Crimea, UN resolution supports Ukraine
Apr 2014 - Russian-backed separatists declare independence in Donetsk and Luhansk
May 2014 - President Poroshenko
Jun 2014 - EU co-operation agreement signed
Jul 2014 - MH17 shot down by pro-Russian Donetsk separatists using Russian missile.
Dec 2014 - Ukrainian Parliament votes to end Neutrality with NATO
2016 - UA signs EU free trade agreement
2017 - Ukrainians get visa-free Schengen access for 90/180 days
2018 - Poroshenko implements National Security & Defence Council decision to move UA out of Commonwealth of Independent States, goal of NATO membership enters constitution
Nov 2018 - Kerch Strait Incident, Russian coast guard captures 3 x UA Navy ships in Black Sea
Feb 2019 - UA constitution amended to include strategic course towards EU membership
May 2019 - President Zelenskyy
2020 - Lublin Triangle Agreement between UA, PL, LT
Feb 2021 - three pro-Russian TV channels banned, sanctions against certain Russians inc Medvedchuk
Through 2021 - Russian forces build on UA border through annexed territory and Belarus
Feb 2022 - Russia invades, war follows

Now, as well as telling me what I've missed from that, how about you explain why you think Russia's invasion is anything BUT an aggressive and unprovoked military invasion of a sovereign neighbour that needs to be resisted on the grounds of basic international law and democracy, rather than rewarded by throwing them the keys...

<waits patiently>

If your support for Russia is simply fear of war spreading, then TBH I'm far more concerned about the Middle East. Let's not forget that Putin has ties to Hamas and is a close ally of Iran, the parent of Hezbollah. If you think that the current situation in and around Israel came as a total surprise to Putin... Nope, it's all linked. Supporting Putin's invasion of Ukraine emboldens his stirring in the Middle East.


...within three days, wasn't it - two and a half years ago?

Yes a totally unjustified Russia invaded. Now what are we going to do about it ? I assume we're trying to pressure it into regime change but what if that doesn't happen? Just keep on ensuring millions of people have to endure sh1t? Because Ukraine ain't ever going to win militarily.

No, Ukraine should give up territory in exchange for it A/ not happening again (military/diplomatic means) and B/ allowing its people not to continue this suffering. That's clearly not a fair outcome but its the only one and certainly the only one that stops the whole country being held to ransom.