michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 2, 2024 13:20:21 GMT
Grim.
I hope they get round the effing table as soon as possible.
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Post by captainconfident on Oct 5, 2024 8:54:52 GMT
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 5, 2024 9:51:04 GMT
No mention of the key factor - manpower. Ukraine's lack of it. Russians are manoeuvring through the lines at will, isolating Ukr forces, creating salients and forcing withdrawal (shut 4 in the last two days). Ukraine cant cope with the wack a mole tactics ... Russians are just activating new sectors, then letting others go dormant ... they have total initiative at the moment. Vuledhar is old news, they are well beyond it now, no mention of the advances in the north to the Oksil river ...
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Post by captainconfident on Oct 5, 2024 10:10:55 GMT
No mention of the key factor - manpower. Ukraine's lack of it. Russians are manoeuvring through the lines at will, isolating Ukr forces, creating salients and forcing withdrawal (shut 4 in the last two days). Ukraine cant cope with the wack a mole tactics ... Russians are just activating new sectors, then letting others go dormant ... they have total initiative at the moment. Vuledhar is old news, they are well beyond it now, no mention of the advances in the north to the Oksil river ... Your handwringing has been noted.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,322
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 5, 2024 10:31:12 GMT
No mention of the key factor - manpower. Ukraine's lack of it. Russians are manoeuvring through the lines at will, isolating Ukr forces, creating salients and forcing withdrawal (shut 4 in the last two days). Ukraine cant cope with the wack a mole tactics ... Russians are just activating new sectors, then letting others go dormant ... they have total initiative at the moment. Vuledhar is old news, they are well beyond it now, no mention of the advances in the north to the Oksil river ... Your handwringing has been noted. Where? I havent made any comment on solutions or lack of ... merely pointed out that the article has missed an important point ... So should NATO be deploying troops as that is likely the only way you will address the situation? ... Ukr reportedly needs 200,000 minimum this year , they got 20,000 from the latest conscription round.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 5, 2024 11:27:20 GMT
No mention of the key factor - manpower. Ukraine's lack of it. Russians are manoeuvring through the lines at will, isolating Ukr forces, creating salients and forcing withdrawal (shut 4 in the last two days). Ukraine cant cope with the wack a mole tactics ... Russians are just activating new sectors, then letting others go dormant ... they have total initiative at the moment. Vuledhar is old news, they are well beyond it now, no mention of the advances in the north to the Oksil river ... Your handwringing has been noted. Could you elaborate ? Pains me to say, but v4.0 appears closer to the reality without wishful thinking getting in the way.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,322
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 5, 2024 11:36:13 GMT
Your handwringing has been noted. Could you elaborate ? Pains me to say, but v4.0 appears closer to the reality without wishful thinking getting in the way. Ha, have your tried asking ChatGPT about the Ukraine war ... apparently there is fighting, shelling & general war-ry things going on.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Oct 5, 2024 11:50:30 GMT
No mention of the key factor - manpower. Ukraine's lack of it. Russians are manoeuvring through the lines at will, isolating Ukr forces, creating salients and forcing withdrawal (shut 4 in the last two days). Ukraine cant cope with the wack a mole tactics ... Russians are just activating new sectors, then letting others go dormant ... they have total initiative at the moment. Vuledhar is old news, they are well beyond it now, no mention of the advances in the north to the Oksil river ... Rather than dragging people off the street who do not want to be sent to the front lines to be killed by the Russians, Zelensky needs to talk to someone like Orban and try to open a channel with Russia to begin negotiations for Russias terms for ending the conflict. The reality is Russia has won this conflict and will dictate terms, but I suspect these terms will be better for the Ukrainian people than having their country destroyed. These terms will probably involve the handing over of parts of Eastern Ukraine to the Russian Federation and Ukraine agreeing not to be used by the US to threaten Russia.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 5, 2024 11:55:29 GMT
No mention of the key factor - manpower. Ukraine's lack of it. Russians are manoeuvring through the lines at will, isolating Ukr forces, creating salients and forcing withdrawal (shut 4 in the last two days). Ukraine cant cope with the wack a mole tactics ... Russians are just activating new sectors, then letting others go dormant ... they have total initiative at the moment. Vuledhar is old news, they are well beyond it now, no mention of the advances in the north to the Oksil river ... Rather than dragging people off the street who do not want to be sent to the front lines to be killed by the Russians, Zelensky needs to talk to someone like Orban and try to open a channel with Russia to begin negotiations for Russias terms for ending the conflict which will probably involve the handing over of parts of Eastern Ukraine to the Russian Federation and Ukraine agreeing not to be used by the US to threaten Russia. The reality is Russia has won this conflict and will dictate terms, but I suspect these terms will be better for the Ukrainian people than having their country destroyed. ...and if Ukraine don't think that having to hand over invaded territory, and be dictated to by a bully, is acceptable?
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Oct 5, 2024 11:56:37 GMT
Rather than dragging people off the street who do not want to be sent to the front lines to be killed by the Russians, Zelensky needs to talk to someone like Orban and try to open a channel with Russia to begin negotiations for Russias terms for ending the conflict which will probably involve the handing over of parts of Eastern Ukraine to the Russian Federation and Ukraine agreeing not to be used by the US to threaten Russia. The reality is Russia has won this conflict and will dictate terms, but I suspect these terms will be better for the Ukrainian people than having their country destroyed. ...and if Ukraine don't think that having to hand over invaded territory, and be dictated to by a bully, is acceptable? Then Russia will continue until Ukraine's military collapses, Ukraine falls into anarchy and Zelensky flees the country. At this point someone who is not totally anti-russia (like Tymoshenko) will come to power and agree to Russia's terms whatever they are - basically unconditional surrender
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Post by captainconfident on Oct 5, 2024 11:59:54 GMT
Your handwringing has been noted. Could you elaborate ? Pains me to say, but v4.0 appears closer to the reality without wishful thinking getting in the way. My cat has died.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 5, 2024 12:05:27 GMT
...and if Ukraine don't think that having to hand over invaded territory, and be dictated to by a bully, is acceptable? Then Russia will continue until Ukraine's military collapses, Ukraine falls into anarchy and Zelensky flees the country. At this point someone who is not totally anti-russia (like Tymoshenko) will come to power and agree to Russia's terms whatever they are - basically unconditional surrender So you think it perfectly acceptable for Russia to just walk into the neighbours house and knock a couple of their rooms through into theirs, and demand you control who the neighbours socialise and work with. You don't think there should be any attempt to stop them getting away with that kind of thing? Might is right, and sod anybody who gets in the way.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Oct 5, 2024 12:09:54 GMT
Then Russia will continue until Ukraine's military collapses, Ukraine falls into anarchy and Zelensky flees the country. At this point someone who is not totally anti-russia (like Tymoshenko) will come to power and agree to Russia's terms whatever they are - basically unconditional surrender So you think it perfectly acceptable for Russia to just walk into the neighbours house and knock a couple of their rooms through into theirs, and demand you control who the neighbours socialise and work with. You don't think there should be any attempt to stop them getting away with that kind of thing? Might is right, and sod anybody who gets in the way. I am not repeating myself again. For the final time I believe this conflict could have been avoided in the first place and Ukraine has been used to fight a proxy war against Russia against its own interests. There are a number of things I do not agree with in this conflict, and the number one of these is the hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who have been killed for nothing.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 5, 2024 13:55:33 GMT
Then Russia will continue until Ukraine's military collapses, Ukraine falls into anarchy and Zelensky flees the country. At this point someone who is not totally anti-russia (like Tymoshenko) will come to power and agree to Russia's terms whatever they are - basically unconditional surrender So you think it perfectly acceptable for Russia to just walk into the neighbours house and knock a couple of their rooms through into theirs, and demand you control who the neighbours socialise and work with. You don't think there should be any attempt to stop them getting away with that kind of thing? Might is right, and sod anybody who gets in the way. No, its just reality. That is what has happened. Where I disagree with Mr Saver is that he suggests Ukraine will be the only loser. Russia has and will suffer. They have lost a lot of young men. They've had more neighbours go to NATO which is a threat for them. The conomy is hurting - recent history shows you could get about 50 rubles to the pound and now its at 125 for example. Middle class Russians can't travel in Europe anymore. A lot of brain drain has occurred. Its a long list and I grant you Ukraine has suffered more but I wouldn't really say Russia is the "winner". Moreover, if Ukraine cuts off its tail and then joins the EU it will boom - no such outlook for Putin's Russia.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 5, 2024 13:56:49 GMT
Could you elaborate ? Pains me to say, but v4.0 appears closer to the reality without wishful thinking getting in the way. Ha, have your tried asking ChatGPT about the Ukraine war ... apparently there is fighting, shelling & general war-ry things going on. What do you think about the Ukraine war ? Sorry couldn't resist. 
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