2boi
Posts: 69
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Post by 2boi on May 11, 2022 10:34:14 GMT
"The Transparency Taskforce (TTF) has invited investors from collapsed peer-to-peer lending platforms to join a march in London that it is organising to protest the City regulator’s conduct and failure to protect consumers. The march will take place on Tuesday 24 May at 2.15pm in central London. It will end at the Houses of Parliament, where a petition will be handed in, calling for greater scrutiny and accountability for the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA). It said the march will be open to all but will be particularly relevant to people that have suffered due to collapsed P2P lending platforms such as FundingSecure, Lendy, Collateral, MoneyThing and The House Crowd. The TTF also noted that the march might be relevant to consumers who have suffered because of mini-bond providers or lenders that have gone into administration or left the retail lending space, such as London Capital & Finance, Wellesley Finance, Basset & Gold and Blackmore Bond." “The march is open to all but will be particularly relevant to people that have suffered due to: Barclays, Basset & Gold, Blackmore Bond, Capital Index, Clydesdale, Collateral, Connaught, Dolphin, FundingSecure, HBOS High Street Group, The House Crowd, insolvency fraud, KeyData, LCF, Lendy, LBG plc, Moneything P2P, Northern Rock, Premier FX, RBS, Ready to Invest, VirginMoney, Wellesley Finance, Westway, Woodford, [and] World Class Global Consultants.”" From www.p2pfinancenews.co.uk/2022/05/10/transparency-taskforce-welcomes-p2p-investors/
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 11, 2022 12:23:19 GMT
"The Transparency Taskforce (TTF) has invited investors from collapsed peer-to-peer lending platforms to join a march in London that it is organising to protest the City regulator’s conduct and failure to protect consumers. The march will take place on Tuesday 24 May at 2.15pm in central London. It will end at the Houses of Parliament, where a petition will be handed in, calling for greater scrutiny and accountability for the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA). It said the march will be open to all but will be particularly relevant to people that have suffered due to collapsed P2P lending platforms such as FundingSecure, Lendy, Collateral, MoneyThing and The House Crowd. The TTF also noted that the march might be relevant to consumers who have suffered because of mini-bond providers or lenders that have gone into administration or left the retail lending space, such as London Capital & Finance, Wellesley Finance, Basset & Gold and Blackmore Bond." “The march is open to all but will be particularly relevant to people that have suffered due to: Barclays, Basset & Gold, Blackmore Bond, Capital Index, Clydesdale, Collateral, Connaught, Dolphin, FundingSecure, HBOS High Street Group, The House Crowd, insolvency fraud, KeyData, LCF, Lendy, LBG plc, Moneything P2P, Northern Rock, Premier FX, RBS, Ready to Invest, VirginMoney, Wellesley Finance, Westway, Woodford, [and] World Class Global Consultants.”" From www.p2pfinancenews.co.uk/2022/05/10/transparency-taskforce-welcomes-p2p-investors/What did VirgimMoney do?
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Post by overthehill on May 11, 2022 13:48:33 GMT
"The Transparency Taskforce (TTF) has invited investors from collapsed peer-to-peer lending platforms to join a march in London that it is organising to protest the City regulator’s conduct and failure to protect consumers. The march will take place on Tuesday 24 May at 2.15pm in central London. It will end at the Houses of Parliament, where a petition will be handed in, calling for greater scrutiny and accountability for the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA). It said the march will be open to all but will be particularly relevant to people that have suffered due to collapsed P2P lending platforms such as FundingSecure, Lendy, Collateral, MoneyThing and The House Crowd. The TTF also noted that the march might be relevant to consumers who have suffered because of mini-bond providers or lenders that have gone into administration or left the retail lending space, such as London Capital & Finance, Wellesley Finance, Basset & Gold and Blackmore Bond." “The march is open to all but will be particularly relevant to people that have suffered due to: Barclays, Basset & Gold, Blackmore Bond, Capital Index, Clydesdale, Collateral, Connaught, Dolphin, FundingSecure, HBOS High Street Group, The House Crowd, insolvency fraud, KeyData, LCF, Lendy, LBG plc, Moneything P2P, Northern Rock, Premier FX, RBS, Ready to Invest, VirginMoney, Wellesley Finance, Westway, Woodford, [and] World Class Global Consultants.”" From www.p2pfinancenews.co.uk/2022/05/10/transparency-taskforce-welcomes-p2p-investors/What did VirgimMoney do? I don't know
OR
How about constructively forcing customers to use their phone app in order to login to internet banking ; no text + no email + no password + no token card authentication. I do believe there are still many areas of the UK where phone signals do not exist, certainly not all 4 carriers.
Definitely affected assimilated customers like the Clydesdale Bank. I think I posted something a while back where the FCA found in favour of a customer. I made the exact same complaint a few years ago and the FCA rejected it, they don't like me much. I told VM to FO. My token card mysteriously stopped working one day and after a year of BS excuses about where my replacement card was the service suddenly didn't exist. No phone no banking, all legal apparently. I don't think the staff knew much, it came from Virgin's top floor.
Less and less branches with humans, no staff + long automated queues and no banking unless you are good at fumbling about on a tiny phone screen whilst trying to get a decent mobile signal (like virgin).
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 11, 2022 18:19:54 GMT
I don't know
OR
How about constructively forcing customers to use their phone app in order to login to internet banking ; no text + no email + no password + no token card authentication. I do believe there are still many areas of the UK where phone signals do not exist, certainly not all 4 carriers.
Definitely affected assimilated customers like the Clydesdale Bank. I think I posted something a while back where the FCA found in favour of a customer. I made the exact same complaint a few years ago and the FCA rejected it, they don't like me much. I told VM to FO. My token card mysteriously stopped working one day and after a year of BS excuses about where my replacement card was the service suddenly didn't exist. No phone no banking, all legal apparently. I don't think the staff knew much, it came from Virgin's top floor.
Less and less branches with humans, no staff + long automated queues and no banking unless you are good at fumbling about on a tiny phone screen whilst trying to get a decent mobile signal (like virgin).
This was a genuine question, I have a few products with Virgin and have had no problems (so far) but I don't have a bank account with them, don't use a phone App, and hadn't heard about any particular problems.
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on May 11, 2022 20:50:00 GMT
I should have finished my teeny tiny project about the FCA by the 24th...
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eeyore
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Post by eeyore on May 12, 2022 8:46:59 GMT
I don't know
OR
How about constructively forcing customers to use their phone app in order to login to internet banking ; no text + no email + no password + no token card authentication. I do believe there are still many areas of the UK where phone signals do not exist, certainly not all 4 carriers.
Definitely affected assimilated customers like the Clydesdale Bank. ....... .........
Virgin Money is just a brand name - the legal entity is still Clydesdale Bank plc, trading as Virgin Money. Clydesdale bought Virgin Money (revamped Northern Rock) a few years ago and then merged all retail services (including Yorkshire Bank) under the Virgin Money brand (for which they pay 'the bearded one' a substantial sum to use the 'Virgin' name). As regards the loss of access to internet banking via a PC & browser, I too lost access when it became progressively more difficult to login about a year ago. I think this was a deliberate policy of Clydesdale towards customers with too many of the 2% VM current accounts. I was able to access through the mobilephone app which allowed me to monitor the accounts and cream-off the monthly interest - that's all I wanted to use. (Opening a new current account requires PC & browser, so with only a mobile app, I was blocked from opening any more!) Then about December last year, access via PC & browser suddenly became available again and I no longer need the mobilephone app. I too detest having to use a tiny screen and miniscule keypad on a mobilephone...
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Post by overthehill on May 12, 2022 9:15:12 GMT
I don't know
OR
How about constructively forcing customers to use their phone app in order to login to internet banking ; no text + no email + no password + no token card authentication. I do believe there are still many areas of the UK where phone signals do not exist, certainly not all 4 carriers.
Definitely affected assimilated customers like the Clydesdale Bank. ....... .........
Virgin Money is just a brand name - the legal entity is still Clydesdale Bank plc, trading as Virgin Money. Clydesdale bought Virgin Money (revamped Northern Rock) a few years ago and then merged all retail services (including Yorkshire Bank) under the Virgin Money brand (for which they pay 'the bearded one' a substantial sum to use the 'Virgin' name). As regards the loss of access to internet banking via a PC & browser, I too lost access when it became progressively more difficult to login about a year ago. I think this was a deliberate policy of Clydesdale towards customers with too many of the 2% VM current accounts. I was able to access through the mobilephone app which allowed me to monitor the accounts and cream-off the monthly interest - that's all I wanted to use. (Opening a new current account requires PC & browser, so with only a mobile app, I was blocked from opening any more!) Then about December last year, access via PC & browser suddenly became available again and I no longer need the mobilephone app. I too detest having to use a tiny screen and miniscule keypad on a mobilephone... Thanks for the clarification. So it looks like it was all Clydesdale Bank's concoction from the start which explains why my token card suddenly stopped working without any notice or explanation. I blamed Virgin Money for everything because coincidentally even the excellent telephone banking which I had used for decades suddenly had huge waiting times and numpties at the other end.
Virgin Money (pc browser) internet banking login still requires authentication using their android app, how are you able to login without using it ?
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eeyore
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Post by eeyore on May 12, 2022 9:50:18 GMT
Virgin Money (pc browser) internet banking login still requires authentication using their android app, how are you able to login without using it ?
Because, years ago, I selected the option of Clydesdale/Yorkshire Bank's physical 'security token'* rather than a mobilephone authentication app? This is what I do: - open the 'sign-in' web-page on the virginmoney.com web-site - enter customer number - enter three characters from my password - switch-on my security token, enter the token's PIN, select option '1' and it displays an 8-digit number - enter the 8-digit number from the security token * The security token is a credit-card-sized hardware device with tiny unresponsive keys and a one-line display - I detest it but at least it works eventually. (In comparison, the security token device offered to partially-sighted clients by HSBC, is a thing of beauty.) I've had the token for at least four years. When you say your token 'suddenly stopped working', was that because the web-site would no longer accept the token's codes or did the token itself stop working? The token has a replaceable coin-cell battery if it's the latter.
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Post by overthehill on May 12, 2022 10:01:40 GMT
Virgin Money (pc browser) internet banking login still requires authentication using their android app, how are you able to login without using it ?
Because, years ago, I selected the option of Clydesdale/Yorkshire Bank's physical 'security token'* rather than a mobilephone authentication app? This is what I do: - open the 'sign-in' web-page on the virginmoney.com web-site - enter customer number - enter three characters from my password - switch-on my security token, enter the token's PIN, select option '1' and it displays an 8-digit number - enter the 8-digit number from the security token * The security token is a credit-card-sized hardware device with tiny unresponsive keys and a one-line display - I detest it but at least it works eventually. (In comparison, the security token device offered to partially-sighted clients by HSBC, is a thing of beauty.) I've had the token for at least four years. When you say your token 'suddenly stopped working', was that because the web-site would no longer accept the token's codes or did the token itself stop working? The token has a replaceable coin-cell battery if it's the latter.
Just to draw line under this. What you're describing is exactly what I had and what was disabled and what they told me was now unavailable, hence my complaint to the FCA. I knew they were blowing smoke up my backside. It is constructive coercion to get every customer onto their phone app. The FCA is happy to wave them on. I can only assume that no banking regulations are being breached.
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Post by danraj on May 16, 2022 11:54:07 GMT
For what it’s worth, albeit late, the FCA has done a good job with the post-implementation review which came into effect December 2019. Many P2P investors joined the sector before it was regulated, and these failures would likely have occurred without regulation. I remember in 2015, we lost a bunch of lenders to Lendy, who were promising better returns. I tried to encourage my customers not to abdicate their lending decisions to Lendy because investor over-confidence would lead them to take risky decisions. There's an interesting paper on why P2P platforms fail here: link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10660-021-09489-6It’s based on Israeli firms, but same applies. Fundamentally, there comes a point where a platform is incentivised to under-price risk, they go through a period of growth before defaults manifest. As they lose investor confidence, income diminishes and if confidence is not regained (or costs not appropriately managed) the platform fails. Venting at the regulator will delay the regulation of crypto, leading to further public losses. You only hear about the major rug-pulls, hacks and fraud when covered in the press about the major cases, but if regulation came in you would hear a lot more about it simply because the regulator would be expected to deal with it. In time they would, but regulating innovative financial services is hard. The banks are safe because they are subsidised with FSCS, BounceBack, CIBLS and RLS which have rewarded the banks while transferring the risk to the government. We have a high expectation of our regulator because they generally do a decent job. In many countries, regulation doesn’t necessarily lead to the same protectionist expectations. I’m sorry for those of you who lost money. There is more to it than looking for the best advertised rates.
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p2pfan
Member of DD Central
Full-Time Investor
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Post by p2pfan on May 16, 2022 12:40:23 GMT
For what it’s worth, albeit late, the FCA has done a good job with the post-implementation review which came into effect December 2019. Many P2P investors joined the sector before it was regulated, and these failures would likely have occurred without regulation. I remember in 2015, we lost a bunch of lenders to Lendy, who were promising better returns. I tried to encourage my customers not to abdicate their lending decisions to Lendy because investor over-confidence would lead them to take risky decisions. There's an interesting paper on why P2P platforms fail here: link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10660-021-09489-6It’s based on Israeli firms, but same applies. Fundamentally, there comes a point where a platform is incentivised to under-price risk, they go through a period of growth before defaults manifest. As they lose investor confidence, income diminishes and if confidence is not regained (or costs not appropriately managed) the platform fails. Venting at the regulator will delay the regulation of crypto, leading to further public losses. You only hear about the major rug-pulls, hacks and fraud when covered in the press about the major cases, but if regulation came in you would hear a lot more about it simply because the regulator would be expected to deal with it. In time they would, but regulating innovative financial services is hard. The banks are safe because they are subsidised with FSCS, BounceBack, CIBLS and RLS which have rewarded the banks while transferring the risk to the government. We have a high expectation of our regulator because they generally do a decent job. In many countries, regulation doesn’t necessarily lead to the same protectionist expectations. I’m sorry for those of you who lost money. There is more to it than looking for the best advertised rates. Thanks for your thoughts. The study you've linked to is fascinating. Appreciate you sharing it. The conclusion states: "It seems that the companies are more interested in attracting borrowers, even at the expense of not meeting lenders’ expectations." Also: "The current study shows that P2P companies encourage borrowers, thereby increasing the risk inherent in lending money to strangers. This pattern could explain the negative connection we found between the amount of the loan and the level of interest rates. While former studies argued that larger amounts are a greater risk to lenders, we found that companies actually encourage borrowers to borrow large amounts by reducing the interest rate. This indicates a lack of connection between the companies operating in the P2P industry and their lenders’ needs." This emphasises what all seasoned P2P lenders know, that the P2P platforms are more interested in drawing in and sucking up to borrowers than "meeting lenders' expectations". As for your remark that the regulator does a "decent job", I would very much disagree. As somebody who has had very many dealings with the FCA over the years because I've been taken for a ride by borrowers and borrowing platforms, the level of the FCA's abrogation of their responsibilities and their incompetency is beyond the pale. For instance, it's only when UK P2P platforms go into Administration that it comes to light that almost each and every single one of them was run shockingly abysmally in 1001 ways, that the loans was horrendously mishandled, that hundreds of thousands or millions of pounds went 'missing', that the Directors were inept or outright fraudulent, and that the platform's heavily-advertised "robust wind-down plans" are about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Time and time and time again.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on May 16, 2022 13:23:59 GMT
For what it’s worth, albeit late, the FCA has done a good job with the post-implementation review which came into effect December 2019. Many P2P investors joined the sector before it was regulated, and these failures would likely have occurred without regulation. I remember in 2015, we lost a bunch of lenders to Lendy, who were promising better returns. I tried to encourage my customers not to abdicate their lending decisions to Lendy because investor over-confidence would lead them to take risky decisions. There's an interesting paper on why P2P platforms fail here: link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10660-021-09489-6It’s based on Israeli firms, but same applies. Fundamentally, there comes a point where a platform is incentivised to under-price risk, they go through a period of growth before defaults manifest. As they lose investor confidence, income diminishes and if confidence is not regained (or costs not appropriately managed) the platform fails. Venting at the regulator will delay the regulation of crypto, leading to further public losses. You only hear about the major rug-pulls, hacks and fraud when covered in the press about the major cases, but if regulation came in you would hear a lot more about it simply because the regulator would be expected to deal with it. In time they would, but regulating innovative financial services is hard. The banks are safe because they are subsidised with FSCS, BounceBack, CIBLS and RLS which have rewarded the banks while transferring the risk to the government. We have a high expectation of our regulator because they generally do a decent job. In many countries, regulation doesn’t necessarily lead to the same protectionist expectations. I’m sorry for those of you who lost money. There is more to it than looking for the best advertised rates. Seriously. The FCA failings are manifest, five P2P platforms, 6 mini-bonds, banking and stock market scandals by the bucket load The FCA has done a reasonable job on the post implementation review, (to ok them 3 years though) but regulation on paper is one thing, actually enforcing it is quite another. There are still platforms that appear not to be compliant with various aspects of COBS and as for the somewhat pertinent issue of winddown plans, the FCA still feels it necessary to issue regular Dear CEO letters on their inadequacy. There isnt enough space to go into all the FCA regulatory failings in relation to the failed P2P platform - we can start with not even realising a platform wasnt authorised until, quite likely told by an investor, and still failing to shut it down, through misleading financial promotions, unfulfilled remediation, unlawful t&cs, fantasy assets, all the way to regulated persons being subject to allegations of fraud and misappropriating funds. PS You might want to get Huddle Capital to remove the statement that it is FCA authorised as an AR of Rebs given the FCA restrictions. (Not of course Huddle actually told lenders that was why they werent issuing new loans) Are you still responsible for their compliance for loans issued when you were acting as principal?- not sure that leaving a loan outstanding and with no updates for 2 years is entirely compliant with FCA rules 18.12.31 for instance - (borrower was dissolved over a year ago so I suspect the loan might be considered to have defaulted)
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on May 16, 2022 13:29:40 GMT
Seriously. The FCA failings are manifest, five P2P platforms, 6 mini-bonds, banking and stock market scandals by the bucket load This e-mail was sent by a FCA Risk Manager in December 2016: I would only expect good professional investors and risk managers to see P2P as a sum of different economically justified risks and then additional profit on top of that (that in a competitive and fair market would be zero! But which ones seeks to exploit in the meantime). Most will be clueless. So this is an ideal way for the FCA to tests viability, distinguish good from bad innovation, test whether sectors meet our objectives, measure our risk tolerance and so on. The problem is we have yet ourselves to adopt these well-known industry practices for these purposes. …. There is little sign on the platforms of (2) time value of money or (4) unexpected losses. There is not always a measure of (3) unexpected losses. There is almost no sign of the final three or four issues. These are huge risk management weaknesses that we need to fix. The problem with doing that using threshold conditions is that there are billions already in this precarious state. … In the case of P2P the horse has already bolted. So we need a different strategy to manage the firms into a different place. This is not going to be easy.
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Post by danraj on May 16, 2022 14:32:45 GMT
p2pfan - Thanks for reading the study. I can understand how some popular platforms may have encouraged borrowers to 'overborrow' or depressed interest rates to stimulate demand. That's partly why we've kept the Dutch auction model for the pricing of risk on loans chosen by lenders. P2P Lending started out as being very transparent but, alas, became opaque. Be careful about reading the administrator's reports. There is a clear conflict of interest. Administrators must point the finger at how badly the firm was ran to justify their fees for the work involved with 'fixing' whatever issues they can find. I doubt the allegations of fraud can be proven. I have written to HMT asking for the legal protections that come with administration to apply to firms in Wind Down, though it's a complex legal area. ilmoro - Thanks for pointing that out, I've asked ABLrate to update the footer notice to reflect that they have not been an AR since Dec 2020. Defaulted loans prior to that date would have had a notice sent to lenders. FYI No loans arranged after the Post Implementation Review (in Dec 2019) have defaulted. I have also previously written to Rt hon John Glenn MP to suggest that post implementation reviews should ideally not take 3 years to complete.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on May 16, 2022 15:26:56 GMT
Fortunately no need to rely on administration reports, there is a lot of public & semi-public evidence showing how bad firms were run (mouseinthecourt blog) (leaving aside that some have access to even more though cant discuss/disclose) I doubt administrators would launch legal cases against directors without some confidence in their case. There were notifications, but the website still says expecting to repay imminently, no indication the loan is defaulted ... last update was March 2020, so two years of radio silence. So they ceased to be an AR in Dec 20 but didnt announce they were closed to new lenders and suspend the SM until 3 months later - and still claim to be regulated 2 years later - seems to make my point on the FCA not doing its job of enforcing the regulations
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