michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jul 3, 2022 21:12:01 GMT
Have I got this right, that to keep a "lump of metal" under my bed that nobody knows about except me and is there solely for the purpose of confronting a potential burglar in my home, I would receive a mandatory and minimum five year prison sentence should it be discovered ? Of course, if nobody knew nothing would happen but if someone did decide to attempt to violently assault my house/family and I found it necessary to aim said weapon resulting in the would-be assailant running away and (perhaps unlikely but possible) complain about the incident to the police, I would get 5 years in prison and he may well be let off if a first offence. I find that shocking as I can think of so many terrible, terrible crimes that would clock in at less than 5 years. (Not least burglary when the occupants are at home). More generally, it looks like a huge amount of thought has been put into sentencing but how much consultation with the public has taken place about it ? Are the law makers too afraid to listen? If they did, I suspect they might get a more nuanced response than what they are probably most afraid of ("string 'em up", "hang 'em high" etc....) www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/firearms-possession-of-prohibited-weapon/ |
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jul 3, 2022 23:21:47 GMT
I only glanced at it, but how do you get from "firearm" to "lump of metal"?
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jul 3, 2022 23:21:48 GMT
look at the mitigating / Reduction factors
you are less likely to be sent don if you are the main carer for your disabled parents, you didn't know it was a gun, etc
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2022 5:53:18 GMT
It's a gun.
A gun is controlled item in UK
Having a gun is not a right in the UK
If you have a gun you have to do specific things with it. Does not include stuffing it under your bed.
So yes, sentencing is correct.
Impossible to have grown up in UK and not know this.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jul 4, 2022 6:29:52 GMT
Have I got this right, that to keep a "lump of metal" under my bed that nobody knows about except me and is there solely for the purpose of confronting a potential burglar in my home, I would receive a mandatory and minimum five year prison sentence should it be discovered ? No you haven't got that right. You can keep lumps of metal under your bed as much as you want. The link you gave is in relation to possession of prohibited firearms, so that is probably where your confusion is.
Yes quite a lot of thought has gone into the UKs laws and sentences on possession of firearms, the types that are considered legal and illegal to possess, the hoops you need to go through - including licensing - to hold one. This is why going to the school in the UK is not the same game of Russian roulette as it is in the US. After one mass school shooting - Dunblane - the country decided to significantly tighten regulations. If you want own a firearm rather than a lump of metal, consider a non-prohibited firearm type, and go through the necessary hoops to be licensed to have one. Which will likely include a requirement to be a member of a gun club or similar to at least have reasonable cause. Of course the barriers on shotgun ownership are lower, but again demonstrating due cause. EDIT: If you would like to have a lump of metal under your bed, here is one not subject to restrictions or licensing requirements: Legal lump of metal
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 4, 2022 8:00:21 GMT
Have I got this right, that to keep a "lump of metal" If you really think a gun is just a "lump of metal"... You aren't being coy, simply deliberately disingenuous. Which do you think is more serious? Breaking and entry? Threatening to kill somebody with an unlicenced firearm? I know which I think more serious. And, yes, threatening to kill - because what else is pointing a gun at somebody? And, yes, unlicenced - because firearms certificates require proper storage. Get caught breaching that requirement, wave goodbye to the licence. BTW, the sentencing link you produce is for POSSESSION. Threatening to kill somebody with it moves it right up the culpability list within that sentencing. Five years is the statutory MINIMUM for possession, subject to a few exclusions. Oh, and I assume you're keeping a rifle or shotgun under there - pretty damn useless within the confines of a bedroom, I'd have thought. A handgun is even more illegal, of course - there are no legal ways to possess one. Don't like it? Move to the US, natural home of gun nuts, with a firearms-related homicide rate 100x that of the UK - and a homicide rate in general 5x that of the UK.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Jul 4, 2022 9:01:02 GMT
Just be be practical, there's a risk that the intruder will get to the lump of metal first and turn it on you, michaelc . I've interrupted a burglary in my own home before and things can get a little nuts in the heat of anger, fear, surprise or whatever. Also, if you can purchase one then so (probably) can they so that's not good...in case you're wondering my weapon of choice was bare hands(!) and shouting loudly enough for neighbors to call the police. Under no circumstances would I ever want to live in a country with gun laws like the US. |
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jul 4, 2022 10:06:57 GMT
Just be be practical, there's a risk that the intruder will get to the lump of metal first and turn it on you, michaelc . I've interrupted a burglary in my own home before and things can get a little nuts in the heat of anger, fear, surprise or whatever. Also, if you can purchase one then so (probably) can they so that's not good...in case you're wondering my weapon of choice was bare hands(!) and shouting loudly enough for neighbors to call the police. Under no circumstances would I ever want to live in a country with gun laws like the US. Or worse a child. I read one in the US where a toddler in a supermarket trolley reached into their mother's handbag, found a gun and accidentally shot their mother.
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Post by bernythedolt on Jul 4, 2022 10:41:26 GMT
Just be be practical, there's a risk that the intruder will get to the lump of metal first [...] This is why I am required to keep my shotguns in a locked gun cabinet, purpose-designed, and bolted to a solid wall inside the house (garage not permitted). The very least the police will accept is chained with a padlock to a timber inside the loft, but that would be unusual. The intention is obviously to make theft as difficult as possible, but I imagine a secondary benefit is to prevent any sudden impulsive reaction to threats like burglary. The only time my guns are out of that locked cabinet is for very occasional cleaning or while in actual use. Thankfully the era of the sawn-off shotgun as villainy's weapon of choice seems to have largely passed, presumably at least partly as a result of this tightening up of the regulations.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 4, 2022 10:43:11 GMT
Just be be practical, there's a risk that the intruder will get to the lump of metal first and turn it on you, michaelc . I've interrupted a burglary in my own home before and things can get a little nuts in the heat of anger, fear, surprise or whatever. Also, if you can purchase one then so (probably) can they so that's not good...in case you're wondering my weapon of choice was bare hands(!) and shouting loudly enough for neighbors to call the police. Under no circumstances would I ever want to live in a country with gun laws like the US. Or worse a child. I read one in the US where a toddler in a supermarket trolley reached into their mother's handbag, found a gun and accidentally shot their mother. Almost. The child and mother were in the car in the parking lot, while the father was in the shop. It was the father's gun. www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/boy-shoots-mother-chicago-accident-b2035429.htmlApparently, shoving a glorified bike lock up the barrel is a far better solution than "why on earth would anybody sane take a handgun to the supermarket in the first place, fertheloveofgawd". 
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jul 4, 2022 10:54:53 GMT
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Jul 4, 2022 11:24:23 GMT
It's very easy to get a shotgun certificate. Strictly speaking you don't need to provide any reason; the police should only deny it if they are confident you don't have a good reason (assuming you are sane, of good character, etc) - and in the case of a shotgun certificate what counts as a good reason is so broad as to include just about everyone.
FACs are a different story and usually you need to show that you have access to, or own, somewhere to shoot a rifle (owning some land is typically sufficient).
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 4, 2022 11:24:23 GMT
Woo... 'merkins. Barking, the lot of 'em.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jul 4, 2022 11:38:03 GMT
It's a gun. A gun is controlled item in UK Having a gun is not a right in the UKIf you have a gun you have to do specific things with it. Does not include stuffing it under your bed. So yes, sentencing is correct. Impossible to have grown up in UK and not know this. Clearly not but I respectfully suggest you missed my point. My point is that keeping guns out of society is possibly a good thing but that a mandatory sentence of 5 years seems extraordinary. How does that square with our love of America, Israel and others where in many regions you'd be laughed out of town for suggesting a minimum 5 year jail sentence for merely keeping the thing.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 4, 2022 12:15:46 GMT
It's a gun. A gun is controlled item in UK Having a gun is not a right in the UKIf you have a gun you have to do specific things with it. Does not include stuffing it under your bed. So yes, sentencing is correct. Impossible to have grown up in UK and not know this. Clearly not but I respectfully suggest you missed my point. I don't think he did. There's a difference between possession of a gun and possession of an unlicenced gun. Can you see what it is? Possession of a gun does not bring a mandatory minimum sentence of five years. Possession of a gun is perfectly legal, subject to various legal caveats. Many friends and neighbours of mine possess them perfectly legally, as apparently does Berny. But your original scenario posited was not mere possession, was it? Your actual scenario of threatening to kill a burglar with an illegal handgun (sorry - "lump of metal") stored under your bed will bring a sentence of longer than five years - and rightly so, imho.
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