keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jan 25, 2023 15:48:02 GMT
Should property tax take into account the number of adults resident in the property.
My House has 1 adult resident, both neighbours have 2, go up the road and one house has 6 adults in it, they pay about £300 a year more than my neighbours because it's a band B property not band A.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2023 15:53:22 GMT
Anyone know how this compares with other EU countries? lest we forget
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jan 25, 2023 16:00:03 GMT
I am not an economist, but if there is a magic wand to raise UK GDP by 10%, it would help to raise taxes collected without people moaning. I'll give you a clue, half of it could be found in a word beginning with B and ending in t . Budget or Breakfast. but if you mean what I know you mean then yes had we had the complete break many voted for yes we would be in a better situation.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2023 16:00:24 GMT
pay tax on property, head in hands
we are paying for local services not for the property
since the idea of the Poll tax is probably off the table
the ownership of the value of the property is merely a reflection of a person's income/wealth and is yet another tax complexity brought about by lots of get out of jail cards.
the key issue is that any UK government has to tax anything and everything it can set its eyes on because as a nation we decided to:-
wreck our education system, disparage competence, laugh at people who can add up. This has been going on since the 70s but only recently was so ingrained into our culture that when our PM suggested that schools should teach Maths until a pupil/student was 18 there was cries of "you are crazy". While the present government is less than competent the calls from the left and the right was strangely in tune. Now our politicians want to close down the remaining good schools. If it wasn't so disgraceful it would be funny.
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Post by moonraker on Jan 25, 2023 16:10:36 GMT
Seldom nowadays do I see any references to the annual gift allowance of £3k that has remained the same for at least 25 years. My parents would each give me £1500 for my birthday and for my Christmas. The actual value of such a gift has fallen greatly with inflation. In the past three years I've helped out several friends in reduced circumstances, mostly because of fleeing England for their home countries as Covid struck, and two of these continue to struggle. My gifts for 2020-21 far exceed £3k, and one reason for living is that in four years' time the tax liability will expire!)
(I've looked at the concession whereby one can make regular gifts exceeding the £3k, but then I looked at the HMRC guidance and the need for record-keeping - and blanched.)
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 25, 2023 16:21:32 GMT
The ‘net dependency ratio’ is the highest on record, 54.2 per cent of individuals now live in households which receive more in benefits – including ‘benefits in kind such as health and education spending – than they paid in taxes. the top 10% pay 60% of the tax lets look at real life examples Adrian earns £22,750 a year and pays £2000 tax 'Arry plays football and earns £100,000 a week £5,200,000 and pays (20% on 37,700, 40% on 112,300 and 45% on the rest ) £7540, £44,920, £2,272,500 a total of £2,324,960 leaving £2,875,040. but don't feel too bad for 'Arry as a percentage he will pay much less NI than Adrian, and will be able to use clever accountants to avoid paying the full tax due. Non league then?
I suspect that 'Arry and his club have some expensive accountants in tow, who ensure that his tax bill is kept to a minimum. Latest technique I heard discussed was replacing salary with a loan from the club (which is tax free) that doesn't need to be repayed.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 25, 2023 16:50:13 GMT
Didn't Glasgow Rangers get caught doing that and they and the players got huge tax bills.
I worked with a guy who was employed as a consultant, my management paid his company for his services, he then paid himself about £15,000 a year, he submitted expenses for virtually everything ( lunch time sandwich, a round in the pub at night (client entertainment ) his B&B during the week ) expenses were paid by his company ( but of course no tax ) he then paid himself the rest as dividends, resulting in a much lower tax bill.
I understand a lot of BBC presenters etc do a very similar thing
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james100
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Post by james100 on Jan 25, 2023 16:56:02 GMT
the top 10% pay 60% of the tax lets look at real life examples Adrian earns £22,750 a year and pays £2000 tax 'Arry plays football and earns £100,000 a week £5,200,000 and pays (20% on 37,700, 40% on 112,300 and 45% on the rest ) £7540, £44,920, £2,272,500 a total of £2,324,960 leaving £2,875,040. but don't feel too bad for 'Arry as a percentage he will pay much less NI than Adrian, and will be able to use clever accountants to avoid paying the full tax due. Non league then?
I suspect that 'Arry and his club have some expensive accountants in tow, who ensure that his tax bill is kept to a minimum. Latest technique I heard discussed was replacing salary with a loan from the club (which is tax free) that doesn't need to be repayed.
Adrian actually also has £3Mill 'gifted' to him from us defunct P2P platforms stashed in an anonymous account in the British Virgin Islands. He'll also be fine as even if he gets caught / to court nobody can touch it. He's laughing his a*rse off as the company (and his interest in it) is even registered on the Companies House website and totally legit...Tax liabilities? What tax liabilities?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 25, 2023 17:11:29 GMT
I'll give you a clue, half of it could be found in a word beginning with B and ending in t . Budget or Breakfast. but if you mean what I know you mean then yes had we had the complete break many voted for yes we would be in a better situation. Care to define that "complete break", and the ways in which we didn't actually get that?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 25, 2023 17:12:16 GMT
Adrian actually also has £3Mill 'gifted' to him from us defunct P2P platforms stashed in an anonymous account in the British Virgin Islands. He'll also be fine as even if he gets caught / to court nobody can touch it. He's laughing his a*rse off as the company (and his interest in it) is even registered on the Companies House website and totally legit...Tax liabilities? What tax liabilities? Umm, would you mind not snooping through my paperwork? Thanks.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Jan 25, 2023 17:26:19 GMT
But how do you tax property fairly The problems start even earlier - how do you define that property value? We bought a house in 1998. We sold it in 2013, for nearly 4x purchase price. We bought this house in 2013. The previous owners had bought it in 1998. They had paid more than we did for the other house. We paid 2/3 of what we sold that previous house for. ... and there was a huge extension built in 2005ish... Current valuations? <shrug> Wouldn't surprise me if the values had closed. But it's simply impossible to say. Neither property is in any way identikit. Even Zoopla's wet-finger (multiply last known by local-ish index) gives a variance of ~30% for here, and I'd say was low going by the guesstimates for other local places, and what else is on the market. The variance is smaller on the other place, but still over 20%, and seems risibly high looking at what else is on the market round there. The only one in the town that fits the same broad-brush headline description is nearly twice the floor area, below the lower end of that Zoopla figure, and unsold for six months. So how often are you valuing every property in the country? I mean, the current official valuation date for England is a third of a century ago... A mere two decades in Wales. They're definitely overdue for a revaluation now, but how often will you be doing that in the future? What's the ongoing cost of that?Same way as the 2015 and 2019 tax changes for non res CGT liabilities on properties was rolled out, I imagine - rebase on a specific date and that's that. CGT allowances/exemptions & liabilities apply/generated henceforth. Zero cost except for training HMRC - any cost of valuation on rebase date is obligation the property owner. Cost is the size of ground peanuts compared to the enormous state supported tax free capital growth they've been gifted over past years or other fees incurred in a property transaction. No ongoing costs for HMRC as actual Land Reg data can be used for future transactions with minor modifications if those were not market value (again with valuation obligation on the asset owner just like with every other asset). It's very easy to implement...I was also initially concerned but went through the process provisionally when I was an expat...10 min phone call and the agent's surveying arm would do it for me for free (also retrospective valuations) or I could use someone else for a couple hundred quid. Not directed at you, but if people can't stomach it/figure out how to spend 10 minutes filing a CGT return on the massive gains they've netted from a big fat state-supported asset, they should maybe pipe down and stop asking me to cough up any more on my investments in British companies. People want more money invested in public services, but only by others and not themselves. And of course it would push house prices down. Because one's primary residence would no longer be a preferentially tax-advantaged savings vehicle and maybe people under the age of 35 could have a hope in hell of buying one.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 25, 2023 17:29:57 GMT
any cost of valuation on rebase date is obligation the property owner. Ooof. EVERY SINGLE property owner in the country paying to get an updated valuation roughly simultaneously? Except, of course, a home is CGT exempt. A second home or let property is not.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Jan 25, 2023 17:46:51 GMT
any cost of valuation on rebase date is obligation the property owner. Ooof. EVERY SINGLE property owner in the country paying to get an updated valuation roughly simultaneously? Except, of course, a home is CGT exempt. A second home or let property is not. No. Exactly per my post, in exactly the same way as it has been done already with success. Point of sale, retrospective, whatever, same as any other asset. The 2nd point is simply that if others are too lazy or greedy to make tax contributions on their assets (of any type) that have gained value benefitting from state support, they should stop grabbing from others. With regard to workable CGT solutions for primary residences it is easy enough to look to other countries for actual examples, allowances etc. Like this one haha: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30932891
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 25, 2023 17:57:36 GMT
Ooof. EVERY SINGLE property owner in the country paying to get an updated valuation roughly simultaneously? Except, of course, a home is CGT exempt. A second home or let property is not. No. Exactly per my post, in exactly the same way as it has been done already with success. Point of sale, retrospective, whatever, same as any other asset. But isn't that the point? The value of the property isn't being taxed here per se, it's being used as the basis to define ongoing local taxation... to replace council tax.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2023 18:22:32 GMT
Didn't Glasgow Rangers get caught doing that and they and the players got huge tax bills. I worked with a guy who was employed as a consultant, my management paid his company for his services, he then paid himself about £15,000 a year, he submitted expenses for virtually everything ( lunch time sandwich, a round in the pub at night (client entertainment ) his B&B during the week ) expenses were paid by his company ( but of course no tax ) he then paid himself the rest as dividends, resulting in a much lower tax bill. I understand a lot of BBC presenters etc do a very similar thing HMRC are cracking down on this hard now
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