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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 28, 2024 20:18:43 GMT
After Brexit, this government ran out of ideas. They don't raise enough money to cover spending year on year and so public services got cut to the bone and started failing. Because the only bone they think the public likes is "cut taxes" and without money they can't fix the problems they created, they stalled completely. Liz Truss demonstrated the problem perfectly. So they have no direction, scarcely are able to fill a queen/King's speech except with trivia. But with immigration, they can keep the focus away from their economic paralysis. Its their one shield, their attention deflector. If the small boats stopped, they would be naked in the publics gaze, no direction, no viable policies, nothing to say. To be fair, they didn't really have any ideas about Brexit either. Other than 'getting it done'. As to shape/form and doing it in a manner that was useful to the country, nope, nothing to see here. EDIT: Actually, sorry that isn't true. They ensured that they honoured the pledge that Brexit allowed us to 'take back control of our borders'.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 28, 2024 20:21:10 GMT
EDIT: Actually, sorry that isn't true. They ensured that they honoured the pledge that Brexit allowed us to 'take back control of our borders'. That'll be the borders we always had 100% control of when it came to non-EU nationals, and a range of things they could have implemented but chose not to for EU nationals...?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Apr 28, 2024 20:25:15 GMT
If they are so hard-nosed right wingers, why did they come up with the Africa policy at all? Why didn't they set up a military-esque branch of the Border Force to patrol in force and simply turn boats around ? If they'd done that they'd probably be looking at election victory in the summer. If the concern is what to do if the migrants are at risk in the sea, why not take a leaf from most land borders? I wouldn't for example try and cross from Poland into Ukraine or into Belarus outside of a border post as I would know there would be serious risk of being shot or at least attacked by a guard dog. Why are people so desperate to get to the UK from Europe that they are willing to risk dying? What is so bad about living in Europe? Serious question. I really don't understand it. if I was stuck in France and couldn't get back to the UK (ever) I would not be so desperate as to get in an inflatable boat and try to cross the channel, at risk of life and limb.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 28, 2024 20:37:29 GMT
As usual out of context (literally lifted mid-sentence) nonsense.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 28, 2024 20:38:38 GMT
If they are so hard-nosed right wingers, why did they come up with the Africa policy at all? Why didn't they set up a military-esque branch of the Border Force to patrol in force and simply turn boats around ? If they'd done that they'd probably be looking at election victory in the summer. If the concern is what to do if the migrants are at risk in the sea, why not take a leaf from most land borders? I wouldn't for example try and cross from Poland into Ukraine or into Belarus outside of a border post as I would know there would be serious risk of being shot or at least attacked by a guard dog. Why are people so desperate to get to the UK from Europe that they are willing to risk dying? What is so bad about living in Europe? Serious question. I really don't understand it. if I was stuck in France and couldn't get back to the UK (ever) I would not be so desperate as to get in an inflatable boat and try to cross the channel, at risk of life and limb. Don't know either but assume English language and relatives/friends already here play a significant part.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 28, 2024 21:10:18 GMT
If they are so hard-nosed right wingers, why did they come up with the Africa policy at all? Why didn't they set up a military-esque branch of the Border Force to patrol in force and simply turn boats around ? If they'd done that they'd probably be looking at election victory in the summer. If the concern is what to do if the migrants are at risk in the sea, why not take a leaf from most land borders? I wouldn't for example try and cross from Poland into Ukraine or into Belarus outside of a border post as I would know there would be serious risk of being shot or at least attacked by a guard dog. Why are people so desperate to get to the UK from Europe that they are willing to risk dying? What is so bad about living in Europe? Serious question. I really don't understand it. if I was stuck in France and couldn't get back to the UK (ever) I would not be so desperate as to get in an inflatable boat and try to cross the channel, at risk of life and limb. Don't think anything is wrong with Eurpoe, if you can get approval to stay (always thought that UK was seen as a soft touch). Sky were talking to illegals who arrived by boat last week, and they had been in Germany for 2 years but were worried about being deported now that their asylum claims had been rejected. So they traveled overland to France and then jumped in a boat to UK to try their luck here.
Got to love the current spat with the Iriah republic. France has shown little interest in stopping the crossings, but when the asylum seekers travel through UK and then into the republic via the open NI border, the Irish government say we must take them back. Maybe they should just hire a boat and send them straight back to France?
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 28, 2024 21:18:46 GMT
If they are so hard-nosed right wingers, why did they come up with the Africa policy at all? Why didn't they set up a military-esque branch of the Border Force to patrol in force and simply turn boats around ? If they'd done that they'd probably be looking at election victory in the summer. If the concern is what to do if the migrants are at risk in the sea, why not take a leaf from most land borders? I wouldn't for example try and cross from Poland into Ukraine or into Belarus outside of a border post as I would know there would be serious risk of being shot or at least attacked by a guard dog. Serious question. I really don't understand it. if I was stuck in France and couldn't get back to the UK (ever) I would not be so desperate as to get in an inflatable boat and try to cross the channel, at risk of life and limb. On the second point first. Many of those trying to get across to the UK have already been denied asylum in the European country from which they are looking to leave to come here. Because their application has been processed and rejected. This is what I understand. On the positive incentive front. I'd suggest two things. First English language. I mean that is really a no brainer. What is the most commonly spoken second language ? German or English ? (I'll grant that for some of the countries of origin French in particular might be the more common second language, but I would bet that's been changing fast over the years). Second: ability to get lost in the system. Pretty much every European country operates a national identity card system. Guess which country doesn't ? It's ridiculous. On many many levels. in fact its more than ridiculous. Its a travesty. And of course how we deal with illegals when they are here. I recall my (ex police) wife regaling me of tales of illegal immigrants being picked up by the van load. Taken to a police station. Possibly fingerprints taken. And then released on bail with a requirement to show up somewhere, maybe a police station, in a weeks time or so. Because there was nothing else the police could do with them. I mean it beggars belief. Our system is broken, like so many aspects of the UK.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 28, 2024 21:24:20 GMT
Why are people so desperate to get to the UK from Europe that they are willing to risk dying? What is so bad about living in Europe? Serious question. I really don't understand it. if I was stuck in France and couldn't get back to the UK (ever) I would not be so desperate as to get in an inflatable boat and try to cross the channel, at risk of life and limb. Don't think anything is wrong with Eurpoe, if you can get approval to stay (always thought that UK was seen as a soft touch). Sky were talking to illegals who arrived by boat last week, and they had been in Germany for 2 years but were worried about being deported now that their asylum claims had been rejected. So they traveled overland to France and then jumped in a boat to UK to try their luck here.
Got to love the current spat with the Iriah republic. France has shown little interest in stopping the crossings, but when the asylum seekers travel through UK and then into the republic via the open NI border, the Irish government say we must take them back. Maybe they should just hire a boat and send them straight back to France?
Nah Africa, which apparently is the policy of VDL & the EPP for the Euro elections.
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Post by captainconfident on Apr 28, 2024 23:39:10 GMT
As someone facing the hardship of living in the EU, I think the problem is exactly as mentioned above, no ID card in the UK. There's going to be a host community where you may have relations, where you may be looked after to some extent. Through that you get paid work. What does the ID card do for you? It is access to all services both private and public. It smooths your way through the day and scarcely one goes by without me sticking it in some reader or other. Goodness knows what the government knows about me but if they wanted, practically everything. But as it is, you couldn't function in society without one and you are supposed to have it with you at all times (at least in B/NL), if the police want to id you, you have to show it, I think it's a legal requirement. You can't make a life here long term without this card. What did I think of that when I moved here? Gestapo! We fought the war not to have "Your papers please". But you have to lump it and get one, using your passport in the mean time. Then I realised that most Belgians don't have passports, this is enough of a passport and why pay again? Plus it makes life simple. In an increasingly complex world you need to snap your fingers, be recognised and get on with your business. Actually online, recognition is with Itsme, something you use to confirm your bank transfers over a certain size, log in to gvt databases and personal records, your health records etc. You sign up to Itsme using your eID, then you are using your phone finger print to use the app. Is there an equivalent to this in the UK? www.itsme-id.com/en-BE |
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 29, 2024 7:13:12 GMT
As usual out of context (literally lifted mid-sentence) nonsense. The entire paragraph says... "The Home Office has said Rwanda has an initial capacity to take 200 people a year, but there are plans to increase that number when the scheme begins."There are a myriad of other sources, including the Deputy PM being quoted. If you're relying on "but there are plans..." to state that the initial capacity of 200 per year is somehow "nonsense", then I admire your optimism. Also: researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9568/CBP-9568.pdfThat parliamentary briefing doc also contains the paragraph... (p28) "In terms of accommodation, the evidence before the High Court in 2022 was that “the physical capacity for housing asylum seekers in Rwanda was limited to 100”. The Home Office gave an initial figure of 200 beds"sourced to this parliamentary answer given by the then Immigration Minister - questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-11-28/97762So what do you think the capacity is? What are your sources? Actually, my quoted price for the scheme was low. I forgot the £171k/person *on top* of the numbers I quoted, so £1,800,000/person for the first 300. (p4 of that parliamentary briefing doc)
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 29, 2024 11:50:25 GMT
As usual out of context (literally lifted mid-sentence) nonsense. The entire paragraph says... "The Home Office has said Rwanda has an initial capacity to take 200 people a year, but there are plans to increase that number when the scheme begins."I've bolded the second half of the sentence you conveniently missed off the first time you posted.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 29, 2024 12:18:06 GMT
The entire paragraph says... "The Home Office has said Rwanda has an initial capacity to take 200 people a year, but there are plans to increase that number when the scheme begins."I've bolded the second half of the sentence you conveniently missed off the first time you posted. May I repeat... "If you're relying on "but there are plans..." to state that the initial capacity of 200 per year is somehow "nonsense", then I admire your optimism." May I also repeat... "So what do you think the capacity is? What are your sources?"
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Post by overthehill on Apr 29, 2024 12:32:15 GMT
"You can't negotiate with the Chinese, they don't know if they are communist or capitalist. It's like dealing with the Labour Party."
The Outlaws.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 29, 2024 12:44:12 GMT
I've bolded the second half of the sentence you conveniently missed off the first time you posted. May I repeat... "If you're relying on "but there are plans..." to state that the initial capacity of 200 per year is somehow "nonsense", then I admire your optimism." May I also repeat... "So what do you think the capacity is? What are your sources?" I have no idea what the full number will turn out to be except it will be strictly greater than 200. You have again chosen to extract the part of the sentence to suit the point you are trying to make.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 29, 2024 13:33:13 GMT
May I repeat... "If you're relying on "but there are plans..." to state that the initial capacity of 200 per year is somehow "nonsense", then I admire your optimism." May I also repeat... "So what do you think the capacity is? What are your sources?" I have no idea what the full number will turn out to be except it will be strictly greater than 200. You have again chosen to extract the part of the sentence to suit the point you are trying to make. Given that they "had plans" to send the first people nearly two years ago, it's safe to say that "there are plans" is nebulous guff that can be relied on about as much as Rishi's manifesto.
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