Next general election (2024)

And there lies the problem. It seems to me there are very few people looking at this objectively. What we have is on one side a hard core of racists wanting to blame all our problems on immigration. And then on the other, we have those such as the more vocal majority on this forum (rightly) wanting to shout them down.

Neither side appears to want to look objectively at whether immigration is a serious issue or not and what if anything should be done about it.

Thank you for such a great example of how people simply do not understand what is happening here.

There are two groups of people entering the country via irregular means.

One group is entering illegally. They're then hiding under-the-radar, and having nothing to do with the authorities at all. This is absolutely illegal. These people aren't going to be in the 30k figure, either... How many are there? Nobody knows. But they are absolutely ripe for deportation as soon as they're found.

The others are the 30k, those seeking asylum. They're immediately surrendering themselves to the authorities, and applying to be regarded as refugees. That means they are in the country perfectly legally. (Most asylum seekers don't come via small boats, btw)
They have to provide a shedload of personal information to apply, including who they are, where they're from, and why they think they're entitled to apply, together with all the usual biometrics.
(Side point: Before Brexit, those biometrics were compared with other European countries, and people were then passed back to the first country they'd come into contact with the authorities - but that Dublin Agreement no longer applies, because the UK chose to leave it.)

Those people are then in the country perfectly legally, and entitled to protection under a number of UN treaties. They're entitled under those treaties and UK law to basic accommodation and money for subsistence. That's currently £50/week - or £9/week if the accommodation includes food. They can't work.
www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

When the government finally gets round to determining if their claim is valid... the VAST majority are accepted into the country, and can then work, rent property, and are eligible to the same benefits as anybody else. If their claim is denied, they are then returned to their home country... unless that country isn't safe.

Except this government's policy is to be as slow as they can on that processing. The backlog is well over 100,000 people. Those people are simply in limbo, and their accommodation is costing a fortune. They're the ones the government don't know who they are, or if they're legitimate, simply because they can't be bothered to do the work to determine that.


It's entirely possible, because to reach this country like that is not exactly the tidiest and most straightforward path, and it's entirely likely people have misplaced their documents - if they ever had them, given they're running for their lives from their home countries.

Not having any paperwork is going to make an asylum application harder, not easier, so nobody WANTS to lose their documentation.

Not if you apply for asylum.

BTW, the UK is 19th out of 28 European countries for the number of asylum applications per capita.

Not until your claim is determined to be false.

That might, of course, be very straightforward... Especially if you produce a UK passport and zero evidence of political persecution. The same would, of course, apply to somebody arriving here and waving a French passport.

Why? Are they planning on pulling out of UN treaties? They've already ruled out Frexit, so they'd still be bound by EU rules.

Why would they? What did you do to give them the impression you might need to? Asylum is claimed not offered.

You would have to be alot braver than I am to tell those French Cops who boarded the boat I was claiming Asylum and wanted to become a French Citizen. I dont think they would have been interested in the UN conventions.

Actually, I think you'll see that "more vocal majority" don't spend all there time on the racism argument. But whenever they raise the topic of the country being in a demographic death spiral (rapidly aging population, rapidly decreasing workforce) and how immigration not just helps, but is probably a necessity, it just goes quiet. There never is an alternative reasoned solution given, and there is never a proper engagement on the subject. That IS the objective discussion that needs to be had. But all that happens is that a while later we get the normal 'fear' stuff trotted out again about no more immigration, no more houses, NHS pressures etc etc. 

So the idea is because we're a child unfriendly society ("covid-vector" I believe one of the liberal members of this forum referred to them as apparently that being acceptable language to use whilst we walk on egg shells to get the language right regarding other non-child producing  members of society) we need to important people to look after our elderly? That sounds like a pyramid scheme to me as they will in turn age and thus we will need even more people to look after them. We're all getting older. Meanwhile the countries from where they came, will suffer - particularly if we take all their "highly" skilled people.

Taking your argument to its logical conclusion surely we would do without countries and borders all together? Maybe that's not so bad but at least lets be honest about where you'd like to see us heading....