bernythedolt
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Post by bernythedolt on Jul 3, 2024 12:42:33 GMT
Sky are talking to shadow education secretary Bridget Phillipson (Labour have pledged to charge VAT on private school fees if they win the election).
Does anyone know why any government would want to discourage private education (or private heath care for that matter). Surely, the more children that are educated privately means the less the government has to spend educating the rest?
If it costs £8000 a year to educate somebody in a state school you would think the government would be subsidising private education not taxing it.
Don't overlook the very powerful politics of envy. If the idle and feckless - and lawd knows we have enough of them - are offered any opportunity to stick the boot in to the aspirational among us who work hard to achieve something better for themselves and their families, they will grab it with both hands. Look at the demise of grammar schools and how Labour and their voters lapped it up. It doesn't matter whether a policy is good or bad, if it strikes the right envy chord it will guarantee to fly.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jul 3, 2024 13:09:16 GMT
Yes, immigration is a serious issue. It is absolutely vital. The fundamental economic problem this country faces is an ageing population, caused partly by people living longer and partly by a declining birth rate. The proportion of people of working age is falling and this means that tax rises are inevitable. You mentioned school places in an earlier post. Numbers entering the state school system are already falling and this decline is forecast to continue. Far from there being a shortage of school places (which is always a local issue somewhere or other) there will be a surplus - and some schools are sure to face closure. In recent decades the impact of the ageing population has been mitigated by immigrants - both directly, by them maintaining the numbers of working age, and indirectly, by them having more children. Without immigration our population would soon start to fall, and the economy would go to hell in a handcart. With it, we have at least a chance of rebuilding our economy, restoring decent public services, etc etc. I am not suggesting that we need to grow the population indefinitely but we do need enough immigration to maintain the workforce at a level that can support the population as a whole. We do of course need to build more housing where it is needed (for which we will need workers), and we need to get the planning and infrastructure right. But if we do that I'd like to think that, over time, the noise around immigration will fall. So the idea is because we're a child unfriendly society ("covid-vector" I believe one of the liberal members of this forum referred to them as apparently that being acceptable language to use whilst we walk on egg shells to get the language right regarding other non-child producing members of society) we need to important people to look after our elderly? That sounds like a pyramid scheme to me as they will in turn age and thus we will need even more people to look after them. We're all getting older. Meanwhile the countries from where they came, will suffer - particularly if we take all their "highly" skilled people. Taking your argument to its logical conclusion surely we would do without countries and borders all together? Maybe that's not so bad but at least lets be honest about where you'd like to see us heading.... Whoever said anything about being a "child unfriendly society"? We're talking fertility rates, not infanticide. So to come back to my earlier point: what is your proposed solution to the demographic challenge of an aging population coupled with birth rates well below the replacement rate ? Do you propose a maximum cap on the age you are allowed to reach before a visit from the euthanasia squad? Or perhaps an annual ballot to determine which 10% of the over 75s are the lucky winners in the "your time is up" reality TV show ? Or perhaps we run a version of the Hunger Games, only in this case all participants are on zimmer frames. who are YOU hoping is going to be economically productive to allow your pension to be paid ? Who are you hoping is going to be coming to your house to do care visits ? Oh, and we aren't "taking" anyone from their countries. I thought the problem as framed was voluntary immigration.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jul 3, 2024 13:15:17 GMT
Its pretty much a given that Britain's racists voted for Brexit. The result of this was to drive out the mainly white skinned people of the EU and replace them with mainly darker people from the rest of the world. If you are a racist, you must be kicking yourself. I personally knew two person voted "leave", not racist themselves. But they strongly prefer smaller Kingdoms bring "peace".  Interestingly, one who voted "leave" had the intention to leave UK, he left the UK after 2016. Should his vote been disallowed and undo BREXIT? That's nothing much I could help even I voted "REMAIN".
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Post by captainconfident on Jul 3, 2024 13:27:55 GMT
Forget trying to strip poorer countries of their poorest and best educated. If you're looking for strivers trying to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, lets make use of the ones who made it here on small boats. They all choose to try it because they speak English, and they have already shown the kind of grit and motivation that our idle and feckless mentioned by Berny clearly lack.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jul 3, 2024 13:28:12 GMT
Yes, immigration is a serious issue. It is absolutely vital. The fundamental economic problem this country faces is an ageing population, caused partly by people living longer and partly by a declining birth rate. The proportion of people of working age is falling and this means that tax rises are inevitable. You mentioned school places in an earlier post. Numbers entering the state school system are already falling and this decline is forecast to continue. Far from there being a shortage of school places (which is always a local issue somewhere or other) there will be a surplus - and some schools are sure to face closure. In recent decades the impact of the ageing population has been mitigated by immigrants - both directly, by them maintaining the numbers of working age, and indirectly, by them having more children. Without immigration our population would soon start to fall, and the economy would go to hell in a handcart. With it, we have at least a chance of rebuilding our economy, restoring decent public services, etc etc. I am not suggesting that we need to grow the population indefinitely but we do need enough immigration to maintain the workforce at a level that can support the population as a whole. We do of course need to build more housing where it is needed (for which we will need workers), and we need to get the planning and infrastructure right. But if we do that I'd like to think that, over time, the noise around immigration will fall. So the idea is because we're a child unfriendly society ("covid-vector" I believe one of the liberal members of this forum referred to them as apparently that being acceptable language to use whilst we walk on egg shells to get the language right regarding other non-child producing members of society) we need to important people to look after our elderly? That sounds like a pyramid scheme to me as they will in turn age and thus we will need even more people to look after them. We're all getting older. Meanwhile the countries from where they came, will suffer - particularly if we take all their "highly" skilled people. Taking your argument to its logical conclusion surely we would do without countries and borders all together? Maybe that's not so bad but at least lets be honest about where you'd like to see us heading.... Low birthrate has little or nothing to do with child friendliness or otherwise. It's mainly down to educated, emancipated women choosing to have fewer children (1 or 0). We see the same trend everywhere.) We don't need to import people just to look after our elderly (although that's a major shortage area) but to fill many other gaps. It's not a pyramid scheme if net immigration is no more than is required to substitute for the "missing" children (ie just enough to compensate for births being below the replacement rate). We would in principle end up with either a new steady state population or, if net immigration is slightly lower, a slowly declining population (albeit rising in the short term). I think the latter would be ideal because it would buy us time to grow productivity in order to maintain a properly functioning state. I agree, up to a point, with your comment about the countries from where immigrants come suffering - although this depends on where they are on their demographic journey. Populations are still exploding in sub Saharan Africa and in most of the Islamic world, which will be enough to supply the rest of the world's net immigration needs for another 50 years or so. But the population of the world as a whole is forecast to reach a peak in the 2080s (or sooner, on some forecasts) before starting to fall. Thereafter the whole world will have to get used to a declining population and work out how to live with it. Which would 100% be a good thing, as long as it is not too abrupt (and wars, famine, climate change don't change everything...) Edit: crossed with bracknellboy above
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jul 3, 2024 15:10:11 GMT
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jul 3, 2024 16:23:12 GMT
There are lots of Nigerians, their country isn't doing great, they want to come, and there are jobs for them in the health and care sectors. To an extent, they are replacing health and care workers from the EU. There are also lots coming on study visas, many of whom will no doubt hope in due course to get graduate leave to remain, if that route is still available. Again, to an extent, they are replacing students from the EU. Outside of visas for banking and top universities, there's much less demand from the US.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jul 3, 2024 17:19:42 GMT
There are lots of Nigerians, their country isn't doing great, they want to come, and there are jobs for them in the health and care sectors. To an extent, they are replacing health and care workers from the EU. There are also lots coming on study visas, many of whom will no doubt hope in due course to get graduate leave to remain, if that route is still available. Again, to an extent, they are replacing students from the EU. Outside of visas for banking and top universities, there's much less demand from the US. and I would guess, because they are replacing those who could freely travel to and from the EU and have the right to work, it is costing us all a good deal more to process them. a clear win for Brexit. Again.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jul 3, 2024 17:20:23 GMT
A handy guide  |
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jul 3, 2024 18:40:55 GMT
I see the latest polls suggest that Labour will get about 420 seats. Anyone know how many spaces there are on the benches on the government side of HOC? I suspect that it's going to be a bit congested.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jul 3, 2024 18:44:52 GMT
I see the latest polls suggest that Labour will get about 420 seats. Anyone know how many spaces there are on the benches on the government side of HOC? I suspect that it's going to be a bit congested. Not enough. Ive seen discussion of how they would have to tape off the opposition benches part way along to accommodate them
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jul 3, 2024 18:45:39 GMT
I see the latest polls suggest that Labour will get about 420 seats. Anyone know how many spaces there are on the benches on the government side of HOC? I suspect that it's going to be a bit congested. Not enough. Ive seen discussion of how they would have to tape off the opposition benches part way along to accommodate them Couldn't we just send the remaining Tories to Rwanda?
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bernythedolt
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Post by bernythedolt on Jul 3, 2024 19:01:36 GMT
A handy guide That is so cheap it's laughable.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jul 3, 2024 19:01:57 GMT
I guess the only redeeming feature of the election could be the collapse of the SNP vote (even if it does go to Labour)
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Post by captainconfident on Jul 3, 2024 19:09:02 GMT
A handy guide That is so cheap it's laughable. I laughed
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