keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Feb 2, 2023 15:31:13 GMT
one theory is with UBI you abolish most benefits except child Benefit and state pension.
At the same time you remove the tax free allowance ( and presumably lower the other band starting points )
so given the models I've seen the payment would be about £200 per person per week with a smaller amount for children,
For simplicity lets take it at £10,000 PA and 40% tax coming in at 30,000
So a pensioner would get £10,000 UBI plus £10,000 state pension, less of course £4,000 in tax so a gain of £6,000 a year
A pensioner with a pension of £20,000 would get £40,000 less Tax of £10,000, currently they get about £26,500 so a gain of £3,500
a single person on UC gets about £4,000 a year so a gain of £4000 ( £10,000 less 20% )
a couple on UC gets about £6,000 so would gain £10,000 ( 20,000 less 20%)
Worker on £30,000 plus UBI would get £40,000 less Tax of £10,000, currently they get about £26,500 so a gain of £3,500
Worker on £50,000 would get 60,000 less tax of 18,000 so £42,000 currently just over £38,000 a gain of £4,000
of course the pensioner on basic pension, and those on UC lose the top ups like council tax benefit, and housing benefit
the country benefits by not having to have loads of people calculating UC every month, and council staff doing calculations for council tax benefit, indeed in many areas given the amount of council tax benefit "paid" it could either reduce council tax or provide more services for the same cost.
it also remove my pet peeve of the binary system on benefits.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2023 15:47:22 GMT
I've seen analysis and I still struggle with the idea, it is probably a step too far. I suspect my emotional response is not yet ready for the science
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 2, 2023 17:25:09 GMT
I thought we'd done this before, but search is as much use as the FCA. There's a chapter on UBI in this book, and it changed my mind on the subject. |
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jonno
Member of DD Central
nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Feb 2, 2023 18:12:37 GMT
I thought we'd done this before, but search is as much use as the FCA. There's a chapter on UBI in this book, and it changed my mind on the subject. Just so I can decide whether it's good or bad, could you just clarify whether you think it's good or bad? 
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michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Feb 2, 2023 18:57:45 GMT
one theory is with UBI you abolish most benefits except child Benefit and state pension.At the same time you remove the tax free allowance ( and presumably lower the other band starting points ) so given the models I've seen the payment would be about £200 per person per week with a smaller amount for children, For simplicity lets take it at £10,000 PA and 40% tax coming in at 30,000 So a pensioner would get £10,000 UBI plus £10,000 state pension, less of course £4,000 in tax so a gain of £6,000 a year A pensioner with a pension of £20,000 would get £40,000 less Tax of £10,000, currently they get about £26,500 so a gain of £3,500 a single person on UC gets about £4,000 a year so a gain of £4000 ( £10,000 less 20% ) a couple on UC gets about £6,000 so would gain £10,000 ( 20,000 less 20%) Worker on £30,000 plus UBI would get £40,000 less Tax of £10,000, currently they get about £26,500 so a gain of £3,500 Worker on £50,000 would get 60,000 less tax of 18,000 so £42,000 currently just over £38,000 a gain of £4,000 of course the pensioner on basic pension, and those on UC lose the top ups like council tax benefit, and housing benefit the country benefits by not having to have loads of people calculating UC every month, and council staff doing calculations for council tax benefit, indeed in many areas given the amount of council tax benefit "paid" it could either reduce council tax or provide more services for the same cost. it also remove my pet peeve of the binary system on benefits. Disability Living Allowance, Personal Independence Payment, Carers Allowance, Carers Credit, Bereavement Allowance, Cold Weather Payment, Maternity Allowance, Statutory Adoption Pay, Statutory Sick Pay, Widowed Parent's Allowance, Winter Fuel and probably a few more.
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Feb 27, 2023 16:42:17 GMT
one theory is with UBI you abolish most benefits except child Benefit and state pension. At the same time you remove the tax free allowance ( and presumably lower the other band starting points ) so given the models I've seen the payment would be about £200 per person per week with a smaller amount for children, For simplicity lets take it at £10,000 PA and 40% tax coming in at 30,000 So a pensioner would get £10,000 UBI plus £10,000 state pension, less of course £4,000 in tax so a gain of £6,000 a year A pensioner with a pension of £20,000 would get £40,000 less Tax of £10,000, currently they get about £26,500 so a gain of £3,500 a single person on UC gets about £4,000 a year so a gain of £4000 ( £10,000 less 20% ) a couple on UC gets about £6,000 so would gain £10,000 ( 20,000 less 20%) Worker on £30,000 plus UBI would get £40,000 less Tax of £10,000, currently they get about £26,500 so a gain of £3,500 Worker on £50,000 would get 60,000 less tax of 18,000 so £42,000 currently just over £38,000 a gain of £4,000 of course the pensioner on basic pension, and those on UC lose the top ups like council tax benefit, and housing benefit the country benefits by not having to have loads of people calculating UC every month, and council staff doing calculations for council tax benefit, indeed in many areas given the amount of council tax benefit "paid" it could either reduce council tax or provide more services for the same cost. it also remove my pet peeve of the binary system on benefits. The Finnish experimented with this a few years ago and decided not to go ahead with it, I think their experiment was to find out if the mental health and willingness to work benefits were enough to make it viable.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 27, 2023 17:20:27 GMT
The Finnish experimented with this a few years ago and decided not to go ahead with it, I think their experiment was to find out if the mental health and willingness to work benefits were enough to make it viable. They did... ish. It was actually specifically aimed at partial basic income for the young and long-term unemployed. www.helsinki.fi/en/news/fair-society/basic-income-experiment-finland-yields-surprising-resultsThe results were inconclusive because the baseline was compromised due to a major change in their benefit system at the same time.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2023 18:15:39 GMT
The Americans tried something similar under Nixon in one city. The results were so amazing that they had to be doctored to give the President the answer he wanted to hear. (politics, hey)
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Nov 21, 2023 12:02:40 GMT
Drakeford and co now upset UK Government won't fund an expansion or continuation.
We have some AM's saying that the recipients in the trial ( £1,600 a month ) mainly care leavers will be disadvantaged by withdrawal of the funding and having to go onto Universal credit at about £500 a month, and that these people should get this money for life.
to me a trial based on a small proportion of people is nonsense, how do you extrapolate to the impact on a pensioner, working married man with 3 kids, single mother, person with significant mental health issues etc.
to me the amount seemed quite high, I can think of pensioner couples let alone singles on less and a great many working people taking home less.
40 hours a week at £11 hour £440 £23,000 a year, Tax £40 a week, NI £24 so £376 a week or £1628 a month, so a few hours less a week or a little below £11 an hour, and that doesn't allow for pension or travel to work costs etc
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