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Post by Ace on Jun 17, 2023 14:41:36 GMT
10k out of 16k invested late now. Not much been repaid at all lately. I'm still fairly worried about this platform, even though I don't have a great deal invested with them. Ace , are you STILL hot on these guys? You have 63% of your capital overdue. That does seem rather high unless you're running your account down. In contrast, my active account currently has 39% overdue If you're in rundown then you would likely go through a phase when all of your remaining loans were overdue. Looking at your investments it looks as though you may have gone into a period of rundown for a while, then made a few more investments, then gone back into rundown again. Though the pattern might just be coincidental. In answer to your question: yes, I firmly believe that anyone with a well diversified CrowdProperty portfolio will earn a good return. There will definitely be losses, but they should have a fairly minimal effect on a well diversified portfolio. I'm very happy to reinvest all of my CP interest and capital repayments for greater diversification and a higher compound return. I'm expecting a compound annual return (XIRR) of 7.5% after losses, possibly slightly higher than that if the current investor rates hold up. CP are my 3rd biggest platform. They will likely rise to being 2nd biggest as returns get reinvested and any repayments from my AC ISA get transferred across. They are already 2nd if you count my CPCapital investments. I have no concerns about the platform's ability to curate and manage the investments. I have many concerns over their lack of effort in maintaining and developing the investor side of their platform (though there has been some improvement lately) and in their selective refusal to respond to some difficult questions.
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Post by Ace on Jun 21, 2023 6:57:01 GMT
Another project is in default, so now 26 (45 defaulted, of which 19 have since repaid).
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Post by Ace on Jun 23, 2023 9:34:09 GMT
A project in default has repaid in full, so now 25 in default (45 defaulted, of which 20 have since repaid).
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Post by Ace on Jul 5, 2023 6:55:28 GMT
Another 2 projects are in default, so now 27 (47 defaulted, of which 20 have since repaid).
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Post by Ace on Jul 12, 2023 7:27:30 GMT
Another project is in default, so now 28 (48 defaulted, of which 20 have since repaid).
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Post by overthehill on Jul 12, 2023 10:34:12 GMT
Another project is in default, so now 28 (48 defaulted, of which 20 have since repaid).
I haven't invested for a year and even I'm edgy. The gap between total lent and total capital paid back continues to grow every month. CP no doubt calls it growth but every extra delinquent loan takes resources and makes investor money unavailable for new loans, vicious circle forms.
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littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
Posts: 3,017
Likes: 1,835
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Post by littleoldlady on Jul 13, 2023 7:08:26 GMT
Another project is in default, so now 28 (48 defaulted, of which 20 have since repaid).
I haven't invested for a year and even I'm edgy. The gap between total lent and total capital paid back continues to grow every month. CP no doubt calls it growth but every extra delinquent loan takes resources and makes investor money unavailable for new loans, vicious circle forms.
Not as much resources as I would like. My portfolio consists of only zombie loans as I have been trying to exit CP for several years and I see no sign of any activity. All their resources seem to go into new loans and they will not bite the bullet and write off anything, just leave the zombies to fester. This will cause problems for the executives of my estate out of all proportion to the modest (4 figure) holding. How can they possibly value it for probate? I would like to see regulation that forced platforms to make an offer for outstanding loans in prescribed circumstances. The size of the offer would be interesting to other investors as an indication of the platform's real view of the prospects.
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billt
Posts: 90
Likes: 67
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Post by billt on Jul 13, 2023 9:02:06 GMT
Starting to consider running down CP, its getting to much like smoke and mirrors. In comparison Proplend is very straight forward and transparent.
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IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,664
Likes: 2,988
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Post by IFISAcava on Jul 13, 2023 9:06:27 GMT
Starting to consider running down CP, its getting to much like smoke and mirrors. In comparison Proplend is very straight forward and transparent. Run down takes several years so start early! That's the other advantage of Proplend - the secondary market.
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Post by overthehill on Jul 13, 2023 11:13:07 GMT
Starting to consider running down CP, its getting to much like smoke and mirrors. In comparison Proplend is very straight forward and transparent. Run down takes several years so start early! That's the other advantage of Proplend - the secondary market.
Based on the number of repeat emails, sales/marketing have added extra salary costs. The recent blog by Filip from lli did offer some cautionary advice !
Proplend have many advantages over many P2P platforms !
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Post by Ace on Jul 13, 2023 16:12:57 GMT
I'm a big fan of CP and PL. The are both a core part of my portfolio that I would hate to be without. They are very different platforms with a common feature that they offer property secured loans. Both platforms suffer from defaults. Both have a perfect record of recoveries so far. Both will suffer from losses. In both cases, the overall effect of losses are likely to be small for investors with a sensible level of diversification. Defaults are an inevitability in this type of investing, as are occasional losses. That's fine as long as we get a reasonable net return. Like everyone else, I would like more frequent, and more detailed, updates on defaulted loans. I reluctantly accept that this is often not possible so as not to prejudice the outcome. I have been given info about my defaulted loans on both platforms. I trust both platforms to recover as much as possible. If I didn't I wouldn't invest. Sometimes, it takes a long time to achieve the best result. It's not an exact science. The platforms are best placed to make an informed decision on when to initiate a potentially expensive administration for each loan. As others have pointed out the advantages of PL over CP above, which I agree with, I thought I would play devil's advocate here and do the opposite for balance: - I have a defaulted loan on PL that is already 16 months late. I'm expecting a total loss on my tranche C allocation and a haircut on my tranche B allocation.
- It's far easier to create and maintain a diversified portfolio on CP that PL for several reasons: far more frequent loans on CP, lower minimums on CP, a higher total capital requirement on CP.
- My very rough calculations indicate that I will suffer a greater impact from my expected losses on PL than on CP.
- There are only 3 pending loans currently on PL (with unknown timings) compared to 29 loans scheduled for the next 34 days on CP.
- If the equivalent of first charge only (tranche A) loans are selected on PL, the expected returns would be lower than those on CP (with a small commensurate reduction in LTV on PL).
There will be many other differences that haven't immediately sprung to mind.
I've deliberately pointed out the advantages of CP to balance where others have done the opposite above. I'm in no way trying to bash or discredit PL. Both platforms offer excellent investments IMO. I just thought it would be worth adding some balance. I would find it very difficult if I had to choose which of the two was best. If I could only invest in one of them I would probably choose CP, purely because I'd struggle to deploy sufficient capital on PL.
EDIT: Fortunately we don't have to choose. We can invest in both 😊
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eeyore
Member of DD Central
Posts: 744
Likes: 734
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Post by eeyore on Jul 13, 2023 17:18:46 GMT
Starting to consider running down CP, its getting to much like smoke and mirrors. In comparison Proplend is very straight forward and transparent. I think I have to flag a cautionary note about Proplend's transparency - I'd describe it as near totally opaque! But not having much experience with CP, maybe in comparison, Proplend is superior. There's one other issue with Proplend: - they are uncompromising with lenders - if they are as uncompromising with the borrowers, I'm happy.
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Post by Ace on Aug 9, 2023 6:53:57 GMT
A project in default has repaid in full, so now 27 in default (48 defaulted, of which 21 have since repaid). The repaid project was 10 months past it's scheduled end date. Penalty interest was paid for the whole late period.
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p2pfan
Member of DD Central
Full-Time Investor
Posts: 740
Likes: 830
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Post by p2pfan on Aug 9, 2023 12:22:38 GMT
A project in default has repaid in full, so now 27 in default (48 defaulted, of which 21 have since repaid). The repaid project was 10 months past it's scheduled end date. Penalty interest was paid for the whole late period. Well done to CP for once again paying the full penalty interest due to their lenders. A stark contrast to other P2P networks like Kuflink which almost always (despite what they claim they will do) pocket all the late payment penalty interest for themselves. That's why those other platforms have a vested interest in loans not paying back on time.
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Post by overthehill on Aug 9, 2023 13:41:44 GMT
A project in default has repaid in full, so now 27 in default (48 defaulted, of which 21 have since repaid). The repaid project was 10 months past it's scheduled end date. Penalty interest was paid for the whole late period. Well done to CP for once again paying the full penalty interest due to their lenders. A stark contrast to other P2P networks like Kuflink which almost always (despite what they claim they will do) pocket all the late payment penalty interest for themselves. That's why those other platforms have a vested interest in loans not paying back on time.
Is CP paying the full penalty interest to lenders i.e. is 2% the borrower's penalty interest rate ?
CP update:
"We appreciate the frustration caused by this delay, and you will continue to earn an additional 2% p.a. until the loan repays"
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