spiral
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Post by spiral on Mar 30, 2023 10:11:35 GMT
Most online savings accounts require you to have a single current account from which all payments to and from the savings account must feed through. Currently I use Nationwide but they have recently introduced daily transfer limits of 25K to new payees. This means to transfer a full FCSC quota of 85K across now takes 4 days (previously they had no limit). When they announced this I contacted a few banks to find their daily limits and chose Starling because they are unlimited. After a few trial transfers between Starling and NW, I attempted a 5 figure transfer from Starling only for it to be put on hold pending a security review. It took nearly 5 hours before I received that call and the funds were released. Does anyone else have any experience of using Starling for transfers that require security reviews? If so do they always make these calls for large sums and do they always take around 5 hours to contact you? With many non instant withdrawal savings accounts, its not unusual for the funds to not arrive until the end of the day so trying to transfer these at 1600 if it needs a review is going to result in the money not going until the next working day. I am currently stuck between sticking with NW minimal limits or having to wait for a call every time from Starling for these transfers. Alternatively, does anyone have a different bank that they can recommend to use for up to 85K in one hit with minimal interaction?
Spiral
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Post by df on Mar 30, 2023 10:30:03 GMT
Most online savings accounts require you to have a single current account from which all payments to and from the savings account must feed through. Currently I use Nationwide but they have recently introduced daily transfer limits of 25K to new payees. This means to transfer a full FCSC quota of 85K across now takes 4 days (previously they had no limit). When they announced this I contacted a few banks to find their daily limits and chose Starling because they are unlimited. After a few trial transfers between Starling and NW, I attempted a 5 figure transfer from Starling only for it to be put on hold pending a security review. It took nearly 5 hours before I received that call and the funds were released. Does anyone else have any experience of using Starling for transfers that require security reviews? If so do they always make these calls for large sums and do they always take around 5 hours to contact you? With many non instant withdrawal savings accounts, its not unusual for the funds to not arrive until the end of the day so trying to transfer these at 1600 if it needs a review is going to result in the money not going until the next working day. I am currently stuck between sticking with NW minimal limits or having to wait for a call every time from Starling for these transfers. Alternatively, does anyone have a different bank that they can recommend to use for up to 85K in one hit with minimal interaction?
Spiral
I have no experience with Starling... Personally I would stick with NW minimal limits (i.e. do anything to avoid these phone calls).
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Mar 30, 2023 11:52:02 GMT
Most online savings accounts require you to have a single current account from which all payments to and from the savings account must feed through. Currently I use Nationwide but they have recently introduced daily transfer limits of 25K to new payees. This means to transfer a full FCSC quota of 85K across now takes 4 days (previously they had no limit). When they announced this I contacted a few banks to find their daily limits and chose Starling because they are unlimited. After a few trial transfers between Starling and NW, I attempted a 5 figure transfer from Starling only for it to be put on hold pending a security review. It took nearly 5 hours before I received that call and the funds were released. Does anyone else have any experience of using Starling for transfers that require security reviews? If so do they always make these calls for large sums and do they always take around 5 hours to contact you? With many non instant withdrawal savings accounts, its not unusual for the funds to not arrive until the end of the day so trying to transfer these at 1600 if it needs a review is going to result in the money not going until the next working day. I am currently stuck between sticking with NW minimal limits or having to wait for a call every time from Starling for these transfers. Alternatively, does anyone have a different bank that they can recommend to use for up to 85K in one hit with minimal interaction?
Spiral
1. Nationwide, I thought they have increased the daily limit up to 100k www.nationwide.co.uk/help/payments/transfer-limits-and-timescales/I haven’t tested new limit myself as I don’t like the chance needing the card reader. 2. Starling, sending payment under 20 k usually bypasses further checks, but not guaranteed. Sending larger payment, like 50k are usually done same day. However, receiving large sum in Starling can easily triggers further check before releasing the fund. Personally, FD and Santander cover most of my needs. FD sends CHAPS payment under 100k free and 50k as FPS via online banking. Edit: The alternative is paying by debit card, it easily covers any payment under 100k with just one check like verified by VISA. NS&I takes debit card, but it takes 3 days to clear.
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Mar 31, 2023 6:46:38 GMT
The key statement is the bit at the bottom.
"We limit some online payments to £25,000 per day
If you make your payment through our Internet Bank or Banking app (including with Open Banking), you can only send up to £25,000 per day if you:
make a payment to someone you haven’t paid before make a payment to someone you don't often pay set up a standing order using our Internet Bank or Banking app."
It appears this is not as black and white as it appears. My Starling account has existed for a month now and despite making about half a dozen transfers to it, I can still only send them 25K. My list of existing payees has about 25% that have a 25K limit with the remaining 75% at 100K. The randomness is that a payee I have had since before Xmas is limited to 25K whereas 1 that I set up in Feb and sent £1 to has a 100K limit.
The problem with this is by the pure nature of opening new accounts with better rates, they are never likely be used enough to increase from the 25K limit.
I will investigate FD further as I already bank with them. They were one of the few banks I contacted originally but I thought it didn't work for what I needed. Maybe I asked the wrong question.
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Mar 31, 2023 6:49:21 GMT
(do anything to avoid these phone calls). They're not too bad if you control them i.e. they ask you to call them. My first experience of a 5 hours wait for them is just not good enough.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Mar 31, 2023 7:45:55 GMT
www.starlingbank.com/blog/high-value-payments/No sure how much has changed with Starling high value payment. Before 2020, I made two high values without too much waiting. I say for value like ££££££ is cleared under 24 hours is pretty good, plus starling does not charge for making these payments.
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mah
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Post by mah on May 13, 2023 20:29:23 GMT
Most online savings accounts require you to have a single current account from which all payments to and from the savings account must feed through. Currently I use Nationwide but they have recently introduced daily transfer limits of 25K to new payees. This means to transfer a full FCSC quota of 85K across now takes 4 days (previously they had no limit). When they announced this I contacted a few banks to find their daily limits and chose Starling because they are unlimited. After a few trial transfers between Starling and NW, I attempted a 5 figure transfer from Starling only for it to be put on hold pending a security review. It took nearly 5 hours before I received that call and the funds were released. Does anyone else have any experience of using Starling for transfers that require security reviews? If so do they always make these calls for large sums and do they always take around 5 hours to contact you? With many non instant withdrawal savings accounts, its not unusual for the funds to not arrive until the end of the day so trying to transfer these at 1600 if it needs a review is going to result in the money not going until the next working day. I am currently stuck between sticking with NW minimal limits or having to wait for a call every time from Starling for these transfers. Alternatively, does anyone have a different bank that they can recommend to use for up to 85K in one hit with minimal interaction?
Spiral
1. Nationwide, I thought they have increased the daily limit up to 100k www.nationwide.co.uk/help/payments/transfer-limits-and-timescales/I haven’t tested new limit myself as I don’t like the chance needing the card reader. 2. Starling, sending payment under 20 k usually bypasses further checks, but not guaranteed. Sending larger payment, like 50k are usually done same day. However, receiving large sum in Starling can easily triggers further check before releasing the fund. Personally, FD and Santander cover most of my needs. FD sends CHAPS payment under 100k free and 50k as FPS via online banking. Edit: The alternative is paying by debit card, it easily covers any payment under 100k with just one check like verified by VISA. NS&I takes debit card, but it takes 3 days to clear. Does First Direct really do Free CHAPS transfer for upto £100K ?
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on May 14, 2023 8:21:21 GMT
Does First Direct really do Free CHAPS transfer for upto £100K ? No, that's BACS payments.
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spiral
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Post by spiral on May 19, 2023 11:32:04 GMT
Does First Direct really do Free CHAPS transfer for upto £100K ? Following benaj recommendation I actually opted for FD as my new nominated account. On contacting them they advised me you can do <50K online, upto 200K over the phone. I was told that the 200K was same day but not necessarily immediately so a pseudo chaps payment.
These amounts are per person so for joint accounts these amounts are doubled.
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Sept 18, 2023 9:45:19 GMT
Just thought I'd do a status update as I've now been using FD for nearly 6 months.
They are fairly strict with their fraud checks which fall into 2 categories. Either discussion with yourself to ensure you've not been enticed to make the transfer or withheld pending further internal checks. The first I don't have a problem with, each time this has occurred, contact has been made between 5 and 45 mins after making the transfer. Once happy with my explanations, money is released within the next half hour or so. The second is a bit more problematic as they don't advise you of any issue and just withhold the payment until they have done some internal checks without any contact with myself. Where these occur, payments have taken between 2 and 5 hours to reach their destination. This creates a problem where recipient accounts have cut off times for their deposits as it is likely that on these occasions you will miss it, even if making an early transfer.
I also don't really understand why if you've made a payment to account x that gets withheld, they do the same thing again next time you use the same payee. Equally odd is that due to the <50K transfer limit, if you want to transfer 85K you need to make 2 payments. If I make a payment of 49K followed by 36K, the first gets held up for checks but the second goes through immediately. Not once have both payments ever been withheld. I wonder what they'd do if after discussing the first payment with me, they convince me I have been scammed, what they'd do about the second payment. I also find it strange that where confirmation of payee confirms my name as an exact match, they feel they need to fraud check those too. The whole process seems totally random and not driven by any logic.
One other pet hate is their naming of accounts. If you have the same account number and sort code twice, the description cannot be different. This occurs when using an account for Building Society's that use an intermediary bank account. The reference that you provide is your account number but this is the only place that FD will enable you to use a different description and they don't seem to get that I can't change that because that is to ensure the funds go to my account. From looking at this reference I can't work out if the account is mine or my partners without cross referencing it at the B/S website.
Despite all the above, I have to say that overall I'm quite happy with how the first few months have gone and from what I read about other organisations, they probably aren't too bad. The main thing for me is I can fill up an account with 85K in one day which is not easy with other organisations.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Sept 18, 2023 10:56:41 GMT
spiral , you are right FD is the only bank to fill up 85k with the nominated bank account in a single day via online banking per account. I rarely get internal checks by HSBC from FD payment within the last 6 months. I am not an expert, I have no idea how their internal checks pick up the triggers, but I restrict myself not transferring £49999 as first payment. After the first payment passing the "first internal check" without pending, any subsequent payment usually goes through instantly. To make larger payment transfer faster say above the using online banking transfer limit, I have multiple payees setup with the same beneficiary but different payment reference. For example, Mr B ref 0001, Mr B ref 0002 and Mr B ref 0003. They usually go through instantly. Even with the same payment reference, they can be paid same day without being bothered by internal checks. However, when they is no COP match, or it is being labelled as "crypto currency payment", expect more trouble as usual.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Sept 19, 2023 8:26:38 GMT
On this, note that Natwest have a £5k limit - at some point in the transfer process there's a text hyperlink in a paragraph which enables increasing this to £20k - maybe that setting is available through their menus - I'm cautious so I'd probably move money in chunks anyway - I always double check that a squirrel hasn't edited the account details in the current account transfer either. And bluegh those phone calls, no thanks.
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Post by bracknellboy on Sept 19, 2023 9:43:37 GMT
Just thought I'd do a status update as I've now been using FD for nearly 6 months.
They are fairly strict with their fraud checks which fall into 2 categories. Either discussion with yourself to ensure you've not been enticed to make the transfer or withheld pending further internal checks. The first I don't have a problem with, each time this has occurred, contact has been made between 5 and 45 mins after making the transfer. Once happy with my explanations, money is released within the next half hour or so. The second is a bit more problematic as they don't advise you of any issue and just withhold the payment until they have done some internal checks without any contact with myself. Where these occur, payments have taken between 2 and 5 hours to reach their destination. This creates a problem where recipient accounts have cut off times for their deposits as it is likely that on these occasions you will miss it, even if making an early transfer.
I also don't really understand why if you've made a payment to account x that gets withheld, they do the same thing again next time you use the same payee. Equally odd is that due to the <50K transfer limit, if you want to transfer 85K you need to make 2 payments. If I make a payment of 49K followed by 36K, the first gets held up for checks but the second goes through immediately. Not once have both payments ever been withheld. I wonder what they'd do if after discussing the first payment with me, they convince me I have been scammed, what they'd do about the second payment. I also find it strange that where confirmation of payee confirms my name as an exact match, they feel they need to fraud check those too. The whole process seems totally random and not driven by any logic.
One other pet hate is their naming of accounts. If you have the same account number and sort code twice, the description cannot be different. This occurs when using an account for Building Society's that use an intermediary bank account. The reference that you provide is your account number but this is the only place that FD will enable you to use a different description and they don't seem to get that I can't change that because that is to ensure the funds go to my account. From looking at this reference I can't work out if the account is mine or my partners without cross referencing it at the B/S website.
Despite all the above, I have to say that overall I'm quite happy with how the first few months have gone and from what I read about other organisations, they probably aren't too bad. The main thing for me is I can fill up an account with 85K in one day which is not easy with other organisations.
you may find the level of security check will diminish over time, given you haven't been with them that long. I am a very long standing FD customer (probably only a year or two from their founding). However, I came quite close to leaving them a while back: they introduced new fraud prevention measures and they were driving me insane. There were times I got quite angry with them on the phone, and I'm genuinely mindful not to be with customer service reps as they aren't responsible for policy. I recall when I started using Atom savings. I think they put transfers to them through fraud checks at least 3, maybe even 4 times. This included reversing some transfers despite having contacted them and confirming the transfers. i reverted to using telephone banking: so counter productive. It has now quietened down A LOT. I've recently been moving quite a lot around, and that has included quite a few new payees. I think I've only had one fraud check in more recent times. For a period, I did find that doing a smallish first transfer (but not too small) of say £1k, and then doing a second transfer of larger sum seemed to negate fraud checks being triggered. Possibly because the first was below a threshold, and the second was "OK 'cos that payee has previously been used". Or it was just coincidence. FD used to be the absolute dog's b's when it came to customer service. However it has gone through a rough patch. A new CEO - presumably because of operational costs - reduced the level of telephone service, automated stuff etc. But the service went through the floor: I think a lot of people like me were actcually resorting to using the tel. service for things we had been doing online precisely because of the frustrations e.g. the fraud checks, and tel. service went through the floor due to overload. The CEO did recognise it, told customer's they were beefing up tel. services but it would take time, and "blamed" the fact that customers wanted to do more by telephone than previously. THAT'S BECAUSE FD SCRE*ED UP THE ONLINE SERVICES BY CREATING ALL THESE PITA BEHAVIOURS.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Sept 19, 2023 9:47:35 GMT
Yep, definitely not too small, a low £££££ or high ££££ is absolutely fine as first payment with FD
The alternative is Santander, best for high £££££ payment first time up to 25k. Never ask unless you pay the payee twice same day per account
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Sept 19, 2023 10:34:17 GMT
you may find the level of security check will diminish over time, given you haven't been with them that long. I am a very long standing FD customer I think that is happening to a degree now as I alluded to in my statement. I don't seem to get calls now but they withhold the funds pending an internal review so it's as if I've moved to the second level of checks that involves less direct contact. As I said above, the problem with this is it is much more pedestrian than the phone calls. When receiving those, call+ transfer was done within about 1 1/4 hours at most. The non call checks have taken 2-5 hours to be released so from a personal perspective, I prefer to get the calls. Hopefully these checks will reduce too in time. I'm planning on an 85K transfer this afternoon into an account that updates 24/7 so I will see what happens there.
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